Bending V Folding

[Clay Edgin]

Another thing, how come so many of you shouting to have these threads locked are have an extremely hard time trying to stay away from them. They seem to generate more interest than pretty much any other topics. A bit of a paradox.

It's the same reason everyone slows down to look at a car wreck.

[Rick Walker]

Problem is that the overhand folders are, regardless of what some of them are trying usto believe, turning bending into a material sport as their style depends on the padding saving them from pierced palms. Ask them to bend a nail without padding and you would see a drop in performance far worse than that of "benders".

I bend slim style with an old hotel hand towel, full of holes. I bend double overhand with an old hotel hand towel, full of holes. (Dont tell the Holiday Inn)

Terminator uses small pieces of leather. Way smaller then I would ever think of using cause I am a puss.

Eric used IM pads. Is that too much padding?

If anyone wants to see a lot of padding, look no further then Shrug bending his reds for certification-now that, is a lot of padding.

And, he isnt even pushing into the ends of the steel?

Rick Walker

[SHRUG]

Rick, I dont see how a terry cloth hand towel is a lot of padding. I have started wrapping the nail less since then but one towel back then was not a lot of padding. I was taught how to wrap and bend by Big Steve, towels are soft material and require a little more material than stiff cordura or something like it. Why did you even bring this up you got a problem? You try using a towel and then move to much stiffer material and I bet you will stick with the new stiff stuff because it helps take the pain away, the truth is I use old terry cloth towels because I get them for free.

[gazza]

Bending is bending at the end of the day.

Skin and bone and mental intensity against metal,wether you are bending,old terminator style,double overhand,double underhand,braced large spikes and horse shoes etc,i see it as me against the metal,if i have to pad the end of the metal a bit more to stop myself getting injured so be it,i cannot see the problem.

Its when i step upto the challenge of competition or certification that i have to then abide by those rules or not enter.

Eric demonstrated that he could bend a RED useing his style with just ironmind cloths but this still aint good enough.

Since the double overhand came about the Holles,Pat,Eric etc have used it to great effect,but i would not insult them by saying they were all pushing on the ends of the bars/nails/bolts they have all conquered REDS and other things useing a technique that allows them to do these awesome feats of bending,shure they might be just as effective useing other techniques especially in pats case but so what they are still doing awesome feats that alot of people here me included are miles away from doing,HELL when i can fold a red useing the double overhand technique with or without large padding i will be a happy chappy as i know that i will have gotten a shit load stronger as i cannot even faze a grade 5 useing the so called pushing/folding technique.

Hell i wish i could bend a red useing JB,S so called hip technique as a while ago not many people would have been able to do a red this way,just goes to show that people have gotten a shit load stronger and that should be applauded.This was an awesome feat in itself because up until 1.5years ago pat was the only other person bending red nails,shure pats bends were unbraced but how many others at the time could bend a red JB style not to many i bet.

Like i said before at the start of this thread put on the large pads as thick as you want and go for it double overhand and if you bend/fold a red i will offer my congratulations to you.

[jad]

Folding is, using my own definition of the term, when you apply lateral pressure straight into the ends of the bar at the start of the bend. When I switch from the old-Terminator reverse grip style to the double overhand I either bend the bar without lateral pressure being applied to the ends (=bending) or apply as much lateral force to the ends of the bar as my upper body strength and padding allow (=folding).

If you're not applying any lateral pressure on the bar in the double-overhand bending technique then you should be able to bend the same steel Slim-style. I'm assuming the bar is still unkinked at this point. I wasn't sure when you said switch from the old-terminator style if you meant starting a bar unkinked or if you kinked it Terminator style and then switched to the double overhand. Either way you're still applying plenty of lateral pressure or you could bend the same steel, Slim style, which I doubt is the case. My point is if applying lateral pressure is "cheating" then we're all cheating to one degree or another, except those that bend Slim style or double overhand at the waste. Personally, in regards to the bending vs folding, if I'm going to "cheat" I'm going to cheat all the way or not at all.

[Bill Piche]

Another thing, how come so many of you shouting to have these threads locked are have an extremely hard time trying to stay away from them. They seem to generate more interest than pretty much any other topics. A bit of a paradox.

Everyone likes controversy and to "get their opinion" in. It's human nature.

[SqeezeMasterFlash]

Thanks www.dictionary.com

bend

v. bent, (bnt) bend·ing, bends

v. tr.

To cause to assume a curved or angular shape: ex. bend a piece of steel into a horseshoe

It's all bending to me. The steel starts out straight. It ends up bent. And it takes more than the average man can muster to get it that way. Congratulations to all who successfully bend steel, regardless of technique or style, braced or unbraced, thick steel, thin steel, long steel, short steel, it's all bending to me.

[Rick Walker]

Why did you even bring this up you got a problem? You try using a towel and then move to much stiffer material and I bet you will stick with the new stiff stuff because it helps take the pain away, the truth is I use old terry cloth towels because I get them for free.

Watch this video and tell me this is not a lot of padding compared to just the IM pads or the small leather pat uses: shrug & Reds

My point wasnt that the padding is a bad thing, my point is you have a lot of material on and hanging off the nail, and you dont even bend double over. The kind of padding you use should not make a damn bit of difference. That is my point.

Dont play the "when you are as great as me" card shrug. It is comical.

Rick Walker

[DAN PETERSON]

Problem is that the overhand folders are, regardless of what some of them are trying usto believe, turning bending into a material sport as their style depends on the padding saving them from pierced palms. Ask them to bend a nail without padding and you would see a drop in performance far worse than that of "benders".

So?

[Mikael Siversson]

Problem is that the overhand folders are, regardless of what some of them are trying usto believe, turning bending into a material sport as their style depends on the padding saving them from pierced palms. Ask them to bend a nail without padding and you would see a drop in performance far worse than that of "benders".

So?

Thou shall not use too much material.

[DAN PETERSON]

Then what is too much? Why should the only thing holding someone back from bending be pain. If its not neccasary to kill your hands than why would you? Yes it may be more badass to use less padding but alot more counter-productive.

[SHRUG]

Before I ever bent a RED nail I was training one day with Big Steve. I was volumbe bending grade 8's in preparation for bending a RED. On the crush down of my 6th grade 8 I actually heard a kind of a crushing sound like squeezing a snowball really hard that came from my hand, it was accompanied by a lot of pain. I continued to finish crushing the grade 8 to below 2 inches so it was a legal bend. The next day the crushdown points in my hands turned black and stayed that way for a while and gradually faded away, I could not bend for two weeks. When I started bending again I realized that I had killed the nerves in that part of my hand and no longer had any feeling there at all. I could push as hard as I wanted and not feel any pain, the pressure was there but no pain. So tell me I was using to much padding. On the crush down of a nail now I only use 1 layer of a towel to protect my hands, this is so I dont get cut. Other wise I would not use any padding on the crushdown. I am not trying to play any cards with anyone but when I have actually killed the nerves in parts of my hands by bending steel I dont like to be told I am using to much padding.

[Slayer]

Good. Other peoople don't like to be told that they are cheating or bending in an inferioir way.

[Bill Piche]

Hey, this could beat the new IronMind credit card rule change thread.

[Rick Walker]

Thats fine shrug.

So, why get on other's cases for using too much padding? If they need that much to limit hand damage, then where is the problem?

Rick Walker

[SHRUG]

I only have a problem if the hand padding is very stiff and can be used to help you bend the steel, that is all.

[Clay Edgin]

So we're all clear on what is "too stiff" can you please give us examples of what you consider to be too stiff? I wouldn't think leather is too stiff because it is pliable enough to be rolled tightly onto a nail, especially suede and oil tanned leather. Cordura and ballistic nylon are also very pliable.

I don't think having to kill the nerves in my hands is proof that I'm properly exercising my wrists. I think it means that I didn't use enough padding.

[SHRUG]

That was my point Clay, I dont use a lot of padding and that is the price I paid. It actually is an advantage now because I dont feel pain douring the bend.

[mobsterone]

Out of interest what, Mikael, have you managed using either method?

[underdawg]

No offense to anyone here, but this is getting pretty rediculous. I don't care what style you use, or what kind or how much padding you use, the end result is the same. You end up with a nail that ain't worth a crap anymore for building a deck (or anything else for that matter). Why not use more than one style? I use more than one method to move a bar, or any object, overhead. Makes me more rounded. Likewise, using various bending styles will make you better and stronger all around.

[OldGuy]

In that red nail bending video, I see a great deal of wrapping. and I also see the hands being braced high up on the chest as the bender leans backward in order to do this. It seems a pity to damage the hands by bending. Maybe nail bending belongs in a contest that included hammer levering and other wrist movements rather than in a grip contest?

[tspinillo]

That was my point Clay, I dont use a lot of padding and that is the price I paid. It actually is an advantage now because I dont feel pain douring the bend.

Shrug,

Get it looked at, you could be further damaging your hand, and because of the loss of

feeling, it is going unnoticed.

Good luck,

T!

[Clay Edgin]

I do understand your point Shrug. Can you give us examples of what kind of padding is too stiff?

[Tom of Iowa2]

With the many styles of bending there are it may be impossible to standardize and judge the event?

Perhaps just standardize the cloth or pad that is used?

That and the object being bent are the only things that are easily 'judged'

i.e.everybody that will be certifying or competeing shall bend with a:

a standardized terry cloth towel of "X" size and "X"thickness

a standardized piece of denim of "X"size and "X"thickness

a stzndardized piece of soft leather pf "X"size and "X"thickness

a standardized piece of cloth no larger than SHRUGS boxer shorts

decide upon one type of cloth or pad.At one thickness.At what length and width.

Then have someone 'source'it out-find the best price- have dozens or hundreds cuts and someone sell them.

If the type of bending/folding is still controversial...at least the cloth and the object bent CAN be consistant.

[SHRUG]

Clay, leather could easily be very stiff and still be wrapped on the nail, I am not saying that everyone who uses leather uses stiff leather but it is an example of a material that could be very stiff. Also the right kind of cordura could be very stiff and could still be wrapped on the nail. Any kind of towel or rag is ok as well as t-shirt material, the best way to solve this problem would be to have a universal material supplied to the bender by the company that supplies the nails.