Rebellious Competitors

[Mikael Siversson]

The competition has now a bizar twist to it when the competitors were allowed to vote against the round system rule and replace it with a rising bar system. They may have dropped the allowance to lower the weight from one attempt to the next. This would not have happened with me in charge I can tell you. You stick with the rules and discuss their merits/suggests changes afterwards.

[jimwylie1]

Agreed. Changing the rules midway through the competition seems ridiculous. I would have thought that some of the competitors game plans would have involved going for big weights near their known limit and then dropping back to a lower weight if they failed. At least that's what I would have done.

[Mikael Siversson]

To tell you the truth I lost quite a bit of interest in that competition. Out of pure rage, I had my best workout in a long time. Best gripper workout since the move to Australia and managed for the first time to hang freely from a single 65mm wide rafter with a regular "two-hand-pinch" grip.

Any competition needs a firm judge that does not yield to the pressure from tired and frustrated competitors. They have tried it before with me. Needless to say I stood firm against the opposition. They are all probably hungry by now and fed up with the fact that the pinch took so long. Well that is just too bad. I would have kept them until midnight and beyond if needed.

[Bill Piche]

I believe any contest in strength should not allow back peddling in weight. That's just part of the competition. Not sure if this is the case, but THE BOMB should be applied as well. They pick a DUMB weight to start with and miss all their attempts with their opener, they get DQ'd or in other words they BOMB from the competition. No different than PLing or OLing.

[Mikael Siversson]

Trying to keep up with the changing rules here. The latest is that they do now have a rising bar system (having replaced the rounds system that was in place and agreed upon) but still allow people to go down in weight. God knows what that means as it sounds a bit like a paradox to me. Anyway Arne said they were all happy with it (as rebels would be I suppose).

Edited August 14, 2004 by Mikael Siversson

[Mikael Siversson]

I believe any contest in strength should not allow back peddling in weight. That's just part of the competition. Not sure if this is the case, but THE BOMB should be applied as well. They pick a DUMB weight to start with and miss all their attempts with their opener, they get DQ'd or in other words they BOMB from the competition. No different than PLing or OLing.

Well oppinions differs which is fine. However, one does not change rules mid-way through a competition IMO. You sort it out beforehand. The pack peddling has the advantage that it places less emphasis on tactics and allows the competitor to get very close to the maximum potential in a lift.

[Bill Piche]

I agree on not changing rules mid way thru the comp.

[David Horne]

After 5 hours, we had only got through the grippers, and three attempts on the pinch lift. At this rate, we would have been there at least until midnight, and not only were we all exhausted, but two competitors also had to leave for work before this time (significantly before midnight in fact). As it was, we voted ONLY to change the administration of the event, and NOT the rules (which to me indicates the actual rules within which each lift must be completed), in order to actually complete the contest before our flights were all due to leave.

Arne organised an incredible event, and after the ADMINISTRATION change, the entire contest ran far more smoothly. I am also sure I am correct in saying the the loaders were extrememly grateful to have a respite from loading and unloading 300kg down to 180kg on the one hand lift. I believe that competition should be about getting the best poundages that we can from every competitor, for every event. Had we all been there for 14 or 16 hours, nobody would have been capable of the lifts that they actually managed. It is very easy for Mikael to sit on the other side of the planet and dictate rules and regulations, but we were all flagging after the pinch, and the decision had to be made. Not one person was opposed to it: in fact, every competitor seemed decidedly grateful to have an already long day curtailed.

As a final point, it was also felt by most people that the wait between attempts was far too long because of this system. Hands were cooling and it was so was the adrenaline. There are only so many times you can go out and become agressive with twenty minute intervals between lifts.

As for the problem with lowering the weight, I do agree with Bill, but because we had started the contest with a round robin system, we allowed people to lower their weights if necessary simply to make it fair. As it happened, hardly anybody took advantage of this anyway.

I hope this clears it up. It is a shame to put such a slur on such a well-organised, well-promoted contest as this was. It was an administration change only in order to facilitate smooth progress and enable all competitors to produce their best performances.

[Mikael Siversson]

It is very easy for Mikael to sit on the other side of the planet and dictate rules and regulations, but we were all flagging after the pinch, and the decision had to be made. Not one person was opposed to it: in fact, every competitor seemed decidedly grateful to have an already long day curtailed.

We have run the rounds system every time at the LGC and with 12 competitors it took 8 hours. The pinch should have been sorted out beforehand with testing. When we hammered out the rules and events last year we both compromised David. You wanted the formula points system and got it I wanted the rounds system with allowance to lower the weight and I got it. If I had been there but not you I would have defended any rules in place, yours or mine. You have competed before in Sweden with exactly the same rules and it took 8 hours. I do it by the book and I am proud of it. I will remember your "easy for Mikael to sit on the other side of the planet" comment.

[The Mac]

Mikeal,

Perhaps rather than get into an acrimonious argument over an"administration" change that all of the competitors seemed happy with (per David) perhaps instead you could enlighten everyone as to what SHOULD have been done to expediate the competition? Where the breaks between each attempt simply too long?? etc.

It seems obvious that the original system wasn't working, for whatever reason, so don't bitch about it ("To tell you the truth I lost quite a bit of interest in that competiton"), be constructive.

Wannagrip' point about not allowing weight reduction is also valid for running a faster-paced competiton, in my opinion.

[Mikael Siversson]

Firstly, the rules in place were agreed upon by those that made this happen in the first place, me and David Horne. I would honour this agreement regardless of what cranky competitors would have thought about for example David's formula system.

Secondly, the rounds system works when supervised by competent organisers. It has worked well in 11 LGC competitions. If I had been in Sweden I would have tested the pinch set up, determining how much time one would expect to pass between a given lifters attempts A and B. If this was determined to be too long, let's say 20 minutes, then I would have run the test with imaginary lifter groups according to the pinch width chosen, i.e. all lifters with 50mm do their first attempts, followed by all lifters with 60mm etc. This would have saved time. If this still would not be enough then I would split the pinchers into two groups where group one complete all their five attempts, while the other group gets a bit of rest.

If the guys changing the weights would get tired of going from 300 back down to 180k, then I would do it myself. In the LGC I usually keep track of the score, change weights (together with Arne) and competes at the same time.

When I compete I arrive prepared. I bring a lot of food and fluids for example. Half way through a competition people usually start to complain about how hungry they are and how long the competition has taken while am in good shape, handing out cookies to the suffering ones.

I can remove my support at any given time from for example Swedish competitions if I get too much shit. I stayed up all night calling Arne overseas on his mobile phone to keep you all updated. I sent over calibrated grippers to Sweden to be used in the competition and have supported Arne to a great extent so that he can continue to run the LGC and other competitions.

Wannagrip's remarks were expression of a personal oppinion. This particular rules was agreed upon by David Horne. He should honour his word, or at least replace it only temporarily during the (poorly prepared) pinch event only to return to the agreed rounds system for the final three events.

Edited August 15, 2004 by Mikael Siversson

[MikeP]

I have never been a fan of changing rules in the middle of a contest, or judges for that matter. Come prepared for whatever - darkness, food, sun, etc. That being said, I was not there and can't comment one way or another on what happened at this contest. Sounds like things weren't working as planned and if every competitor and the judges agreed, who am I to question that afterwards? BTW, I also don't know about being able to go up/down in weight. I like the idea of having to test your limits but know what you can do and not bomb out. Thats part of competition, strategy. If you just wanna know what your PR is, do it in training.

[Mikael Siversson]

I have never been a fan of changing rules in the middle of a BTW, I also don't know about being able to go up/down in weight.

Again, a personal oppinion. The European championship took place because two people cared about it, me and David Horne. Together we negotiated rules, events etc. So it not so much whether one likes the idea of being allowed to go down in weight or not. It has been in use from day one in the LGC without any problem. The rules, events etc of the European championship is basically a merger between the LGC competition and the Iron Grip Competition.

[The Mac]

Thsnks for posting those constructive comments Mikael.

[Mikael Siversson]

As for the problem with lowering the weight, I do agree with Bill, but because we had started the contest with a round robin system, we allowed people to lower their weights if necessary simply to make it fair. As it happened, hardly anybody took advantage of this anyway.

Who are we? I thought Arne was in charge and organised it. Being able to lower the weight has proven important on many occassions in the LGC competition as most new competitors have never tried the implements used and have only a very vague idea about where their maximum level is in the various events. Its easy to argue for three attempts only and a BOMB system if you compete on your own equippment. It puts other competitors at a major disadvantage.