2005 European Championship/bending

[Mikael Siversson]

For next year it seems the "folding" technique will not be allowed in the bending event. This may be of some relevance for Europeans currently pursuing this style. Suggestions for next years bending include e.g. just the first part of a bend (e.g., bending it 30 degrees or so), using either underhand or the reverse style. Alternatively, bending may be dropped altogether.

[David Horne]

I think it may be a shame if bending was dropped from the Grip champs, but yes maybe taking out the crush part altogether and just having a 30 degree bend in the Terminator style would be a good way to test wrist strength, since this is what we are after in a 'Grip' contest.

We will surely discuss this along with the 2005 venue after the contest next week.

David

[austinslater]

I hope you guys find a way to keep bending in the comp.

Dave: I agree that the 30 degree bend might not be a bad idea but I wouldnt leave out the underhand style. I feel its just as valid as the terminator style from a strict wrist strength standpoint.

Austin

[gazza]

I think this will put alot of people off/or out of competition.

Some people have switched over from bending alt(terminator style)because of injury proplems,i personaly cannot yet match my best alternate bend useing double overhand.

Personally unless i can U a nail/bolt/bar it aint been defeated,i aint interested in a kink of any sort.

[austinslater]

Gazza I agree with you. Bending without fully u-ing the nail would be weird.

Austin

[David Horne]

Remember that it's a test of wrist strength that we are after, after all it's only going to be adhered to by competitors who have qualified for the European champs in 2005. This won't include me as I retire from grip comps in 7 days time anyway.

David

[danegarreau]

A test of wrist strength is fine and dandy but just bending a nail to 30 degrees would be different

But kinking a piece of monster steel would look kinda cool.

[Mikael Siversson]

I think this will put alot of people off/or out of competition.

Some people have switched over from bending alt(terminator style)because of injury proplems,i personaly cannot yet match my best alternate bend useing double overhand.

Personally unless i can U a nail/bolt/bar it aint been defeated,i aint interested in a kink of any sort.

I don't think it would put any Swedes off to be honest. The alternative would be to severely restrict the wrapping material. There is no way in hell that folding is going to be allowed for next years Europeans. Gazza, you can always run your own competition.

[OldGuy]

Why not include hammer levering instead of nail bending if the desire is to include a wrist event in the competition?

[David Horne]

Yes maybe some kind of levering will replace bending if we can't sort it out. At least we have 12 months to sort it out after Saturday.

David

[jad]

Maybe have the contestants bend Slim-style???

[OldGuy]

Yes maybe some kind of levering will replace bending if we can't sort it out. At least we have 12 months to sort it out after Saturday.

David

Less controversy easier to judge and equipment used not a problem. Also as traditional as nail bending.

[deaner]

In my opinion if you are required to keep your hands together and use minimal padding (only for the protection of the hands) it doesnt matter the style, its all wrists.

[the swiss]

I like the kinking idea, actually. big bars will look cool.

I think levering is good for wrist strength, but not always easy to judge.

I wonder if every one is going to fold next week... I personnally start the bend overhand/underhand (old terminator style), then fold.

[Mikael Siversson]

Johan Albrektsson's style is a variation of the reverse grip style. Kalle, Jonas use underhand. Benny probably reverse. Not sure about Martin.

Edited August 8, 2004 by Mikael Siversson

[mobsterone]

I think this will put alot of people off/or out of competition.

Some people have switched over from bending alt(terminator style)because of injury proplems,i personaly cannot yet match my best alternate bend useing double overhand.

Personally unless i can U a nail/bolt/bar it aint been defeated,i aint interested in a kink of any sort.

I don't think it would put any Swedes off to be honest. The alternative would be to severely restrict the wrapping material. There is no way in hell that folding is going to be allowed for next years Europeans. Gazza, you can always run your own competition.

Will you be back in Sweden or will you be cracking the whip from afar? I ask because it seems as though you have put yourself in charge. If, for example, I act as the promoter for next years British comp I would want to work with who ever is putting on the European. Deciding more than 12 months before the comp, from Australia, that a style of bending will not be in it makes me wonder if you are organizing the comp next year. If not any changes will not necessarily be for you to make. Not withstanding work both you and David have done so far to make it all work it may well be with David's retirement and your overseas work that you may make suggestions at best.

[Mikael Siversson]

Good luck with any attempts to include nail folding in any forthcomming European Championships worth the name (as well as staging the Europeans on a beach). You may need it. If David and I have no influence, why do you worry? Just ignore it.

[amaury]

I think Mikael has put a lot of work to organize the Europeans with DH plus he seems to have the support of some good benders of the board. So we might consider his intentions to be in charge of that comp as legit.

[mobsterone]

Good luck with any attempts to include nail folding in any forthcomming European Championships worth the name (as well as staging the Europeans on a beach). You may need it. If David and I have no influence, why do you worry? Just ignore it.

Go back and reread your posts and my posts. If, as you have, both yourself and David did a lot of work setting up the 'rules' as they are now you'll have seen my words of thanks and appreciation. Othrs, I am sure, feel the same. Without the efforts of those before you you'd have nothing to have debated. By the same token the work you and DH put in is given thanks. There will be others after you - do not deny them a place.

In this same thread David himself states he will be retiring from the game, as it were. That leaves you in Australia promoting or not promoting a competition from afar. I note you didn't say you were coming back. In another post you say that 'folding' will not be in the next comp. Why do you think you will be able to say where and when it will be held and what lifts will be used. It is though you feel only yourself and David can make such decisions. With David already opting out how come you feel in charge?

I'll presume that other countries - Germany, France, Switzerland etc - may all want (at some point) to hold the European championships. This is normal for most sports.

It's note worthy that you add a line 'in any forthcoming European Championships worth the name' as though without your input they would not be worthy.

No one denies that ANYONE can put on a well organized comp or even that you have had some say but I am more interested in the slight egocentric way you write some things. Bringing up folding AGAIN (sheesh), talking as though without you no comp is worthy, that it could not be done and so on... Come on Mikeal think about it.

Joe Roark can verify for me the tussles between Joe Weider, Dan Laurie and Bob Hoffman for domination of the Iron Game. Even now we have a good half dozen Bodybuilding federations in the UK, that's without including other lifting sports. At one time here in the UK there we 21 seperate organisations one could get a gym instructor certificate from. Surely anyone can see how this disorganisation (which I thought you wanted to avoid) would weaken the sport - by the same token assuming - even in a thread here - the onus of responsobility denies debate and why bother putting up this thread at all - after all you have decided...

It is better to work together. Unity giving strength. That, however, requires flexability on all who join in. To say, with an almost given authority that something will not happen in a competition you aren't even (or so it seems) going to promote or organize... well how does that seem?

For those with any interest this years promoter of the European Championships isn't Mikeal - it's Arne. Mickael helped with the rules and ideas and has, it cannot been denied, a driving force. But he will not be with us on Saturday and, in spite of my asking, shows no indication of returning. Even if he does other countries, if thye show they can do it, may well be allowed a chance to have a go.

Lastly our sport has evolved and may continue to do so. It could well be that ALL agree to alter/abide the rules and any changes just for the opportunity to compete for what would be a presitgous title (within our peers here) 'European Grip Champ' (ie that the style of bending called 'folding' isn't in it. I do not state with authority that this will or will not take place. I, instead ask why Mikeal does.

[Mikael Siversson]

Why do you think you will be able to say where and when it will be held and what lifts will be used. It is though you feel only yourself and David can make such decisions. With David already opting out how come you feel in charge?   

I'll presume that other countries - Germany, France, Switzerland etc - may all want (at some point) to hold the European championships. This is normal for most sports.

It's note worthy that you add a line 'in any forthcoming European Championships worth the name' as though without your input they would not be worthy.

No one denies that ANYONE can put on a well organized comp or even that you have had some say but I am more interested in the slight egocentric way you write some things. Bringing up folding AGAIN (sheesh), talking as though without you no comp is worthy, that it could not be done and so on... Come on Mikeal think about it.

Joe Roark can verify for me the tussles between Joe Weider, Dan Laurie and Bob Hoffman for domination of the Iron Game. Even now we have a good half dozen Bodybuilding federations in the UK, that's without including other lifting sports. At one time here in the UK there we 21 seperate organisations one could get a gym instructor certificate from. Surely anyone can see how this disorganisation (which I thought you wanted to avoid) would weaken the sport - by the same token assuming - even in a thread here - the onus of responsobility denies debate and why bother putting up this thread at all - after all you have decided... 

It is better to work together. Unity giving strength. That, however, requires flexability on all who join in. To say, with an almost given authority that something will not happen in a competition you aren't even (or so it seems) going to promote or organize... well how does that seem? 

For those with any interest this years promoter of the European Championships isn't Mikeal - it's Arne. Mickael helped with the rules and ideas and has, it cannot been denied, a driving force. But he will not be with us on Saturday and, in spite of my asking, shows no indication of returning. Even if he does other countries, if thye show they can do it, may well be allowed a chance to have a go.

Lastly our sport has evolved and may continue to do so. It could well be that ALL agree to alter/abide the rules and any changes just for the opportunity to compete for what would be a presitgous title (within our peers here) 'European Grip Champ' (ie that the style of bending called 'folding' isn't in it. I do not state with authority that this will or will not take place. I, instead ask why Mikeal does.

"Why do you think you will be able to say where and when it will be held and what lifts will be used."

Intuition?

"It is though you feel only yourself and David can make such decisions. With David already opting out how come you feel in charge?"

I don't think I am in charge but you have stated your goals with grip competitions, which were to popularize them by staging competitions on beaches using visual implements similar to those in strongman competitions. This I will fight like a rabid dog.

"It's note worthy that you add a line 'in any forthcoming European Championships worth the name' as though without your input they would not be worthy."

Drastically changing events for future Europeans will bring on a conflict with event selection for the main Swedish competition. You could stage a 2005 Europeans on a (hopefully) sunny beach in the UK, contesting a variety of thick bar lifts and visual strongmen events. Without full support from the organisers of the main Swedish competition, my best guess is that the Swedish participation would be thin. We would simply not promote the competition so to speak.

"No one denies that ANYONE can put on a well organized comp or even that you have had some say but I am more interested in the slight egocentric way you write some things. Bringing up folding AGAIN (sheesh), talking as though without you no comp is worthy, that it could not be done and so on... Come on Mikeal think about it."

Why are you interested in aspects of my personality? Why not have faith in your judgement and act upon it. You say that I should not have a saying and that I will not be part of future decisions and yet I sence a certain degree of doubt in your arguing. It's borderline tragic being accused of egocentric behaviour by no other than Mobster himself. Now I am depressed.

[BJones]

Doesn't this belong in the Grip Contest section??

This was put here to try to get people fired up - sorry it didn't work.

Brett

[Mikael Siversson]

Doesn't this belong in the Grip Contest section??

This was put here to try to get people fired up - sorry it didn't work.

Brett

No it was not. Please don't read more into my posts than there is. It is not my goal in life arguing with (mainly) teenagers on the grip board, but sure it could well be moved to the competition section. Are you planning on competing in/organising future European championships or did you just want to spread your thoughts?

[BJones]

Mikael,

Just spreading my thoughts - not reading much in actually - you targeted bending with your initail post - but in the context of a grip contest - just seems to me that it belongs in the grip contest section.

I live in the US and don't plan on traveling for grip contests - another reason a discussion on grip contests belongs in the grip contest section.

In the context of a contest it will be up to the organizers to choose the events and the contestants to compete in those events - are you organizing a grip contest?

And why do you state with authority that "folding" will not be allowed in grip contests?

Brett

[mobsterone]

Mikeal, I said I might (as requested) put on the comp and made no mention of my 'doing the European'. Blimey it would be a big jump for me to go from not promoting any comp to suddenly organizing one for the whole of Europe. In previous responses to the idea I also added that I MAY be able to get it on a beach with a good size crowd. I am willing to discuss such matters, if I so decide to take on the Brit comp burden, with others (as per David's suggestion).

Also, since my previous views on the 'big weight lifts' I have added that I prefer the standardized idea.

I noted with interest you only mention Swedish - I mentioned several other countries. I think it would be a great shame and again you make these comments as though Arne and others could not make it happen without your help - why? Are they that bad or do you have that much influence.

It does take a strong personality to become influential and so I am sure you have a good idea of what influence you have. But does this preclude others having input? I remind you that you stated that the folding style will not be in next years European.

Although it is some time away have WE already decided 1) where it will take place? 2) who will be organizning it? 3) what lifts will be in it 4) that those lifts use an agreed standard (I'd prefer - having changed my mind the same lifts as this year - but this is a personal preference and if the promoter and other countries and the athletes likely to be taking part can agree then we may well see changes) of bothg rules and equipment.

I do not deny you your right to have a say - I asked, as per the folding comment you made - why you deny others the same right?

In spite of the questions asked and how they are asked I am sure that you and David (no shrinking violet himself) had differences and I am sure we will. We both have, shall we say, outgoing personalities and yet we also both share a passion to see the sport go forward. I ask only that, whether we 'fight like rabid dogs' or not that you at least accept that others may want something different from yourself and maybe, just maybe, want to include the 'folding' style of bending rather than summarily dismiss it and make statements like it will not be included without thinking that it might even be a German, French or Swiss promoter that does the European next year. I feel, as strongly as you do I suspect, that five fixed, agreed and standardized lifts are the way forward so that other countries can have the same style of comps and, for the time being at least, we can in a very short time perhaps end up with a world championships.

I still favour (note the hopeful tone - rather than assertive) a more media involved event at some point in the future. It allows for monetary reward. I like acceptance of my peers but it doesn't pay the mortgage and how good would it be to be able to say that our interest and participation in grip comps is putting food etc on the table? I think it'd be cool. But I am only one man - it is for us ALL to decide.

[gazza]

Firstly Happy birthday Steve

Seems like the 2005 Brits and Europeans could be dead in the water before they are actualy staged.

As somebody who has competed in the past and probably will do so in the future,i can see both Mikaels and Steves pionts.

Mikael and David ,Arne,the Swiss,Amauy etc have done a great job bridgeing the European gap and putting alot of thoughts about the implements and events to include this will never be fair by everyones standards as we all have events/lifts that we like and dislike,bottom line is turn up and compete in the same standards as others,if you as well as myself dont like the standards dont compete in that particular event,at the end of the day the event organiser calls the shots,which i might add that the above and others have worked extremely hard to try and make it a fair Brits and Europeans so far.

Mikael and Arne have a long tradition with there Swedish grip championships,it has worked very well and i can understand them wanting to keep the events somewhat traditional,the same with David,s British grip champs.

Now we have Steve(mobster)about to take up the challenge of putting on the British grip champs 2005 and it will have to be at least worthy of what went before.

Steve is shall we say more egotistical than either Mikael or David,but to mobsers credit he does back up his ego with world class grip feats.

Steve wants to bring us up to date with the 20th century and will use his vision and ego to do this,plus he has made alot of friends and contacts in the grip/strength/bodybuilding world and can and probably will use these to good effect.

Steve has all the contacts plus eveybody of who,s who in grip right here on this board,the only way is onward and upward,look at how the GRIPBOARD members have climbed in the last 12months,as steve is trying to do we need to make joe public more aware of the grip community in general but also to try and ballance that with keeping are grass roots in traditional strongman and grip feats.

The root of all evil at the moment seems to be the bending,rather than alienate each other and possibly restrict people from competing why not have a bending event just at the waist ala john brookfield for pure wrist or substitute this with a leverage bar and then as well as either of the above an unbraced bending event any style goes so that then people can train for both types of bending and will have enough time to implement it,this will all have to obviously fit in with the time scale of the individual competition and its organisers.

Rather than create conflict especially over bending lets all pull together and if Steve is going to be the new British Grip Championships organiser,lets keep this competition going from were David Horne has worked so hard and left it and move forward with Steve or who ever takes it on,the same with the European Grip Championships organisers