Separating The Men From The Boys

[Mikael Siversson]

Having given the recent development in bending techniques some thoughts I have come to the conclusion that a simple? way of separating benders from folders would be to, in competition and certification above the "red nail level", use IM's red stock but simply make it shorter (e.g. a "black nail" or whatever colour at 5'' for example). In a competition, folders will ultimately run into trouble once the nail gets below 5 1/2'' as the index fingers will be pushed into each other. This would probably separate the more strength oriented benders from the folders as there would be little option for the latter other than to start using more wrist power to overcome the nail. It is probably no coincidence that the folders have more or less given up chasing Pat into the 5'' red territory but instead are looking for longer and thicker nails more suitable for pectoral-dominated folding. Please note that these are purely my own thoughts; I have not discussed them with anyone else.

Edited July 10, 2004 by Mikael Siversson

[CMunger]

I'd need to see the "folders" technique close up, slo mo, in person before I could start to agree, just cuz I don't see how with ANY technique the fingers could get in the way before it was at the stage of bend where you clasp fingers and do a palm to palm true chests crush. So I'm thinking I am either missing something on the "folding" technique, or you're wrong.

[danegarreau]

I think everyone on the board would appreciate it if you never mentioned the word "fold" again.

We all know that you hate the dreaded 'Folding" technique, there is no need to mention it every week.

It is like Bob Lipinski once said, " IF you think somebodys technique is too easy, adopt it and beat them at their own game, then take a piss on them."

[OldGuy]

I am still hoping to see a video that shows a clear difference between folding and bending. So far to me there is underhand or overhand, and that's it.

[Bill Piche]

Keep this thread civil without personal attacks, or I will lock it. Thanks.

[Mikael Siversson]

I think everyone on the board would appreciate it if you never mentioned the word "fold" again.

Actually, not quite true. Speak for yourself instead of guessing what the majority thinks about bending techniques.

[OldGuy]

I am not aware of any support on the board for your way of bending Mikael. I think that maybe we just do not understand.

[Mikael Siversson]

I am still hoping to see a video that shows a clear difference between folding and bending. So far to me there is underhand or overhand, and that's it.

If you took a nail, like a "red" for example and sharpened the ends it would not be possible to use the overhand folding technique if you used two regular cloths. The sharp ends of the nail would penetrate the cloth and then the hands. If your hands and wrists were strong enough, it would still be possible to bend the nail, as the crush down would still be possible once the angle between the legs of the nail was small enough. The folding technique relies on the ability of the person to push hard into the initially straight bar while creating fulcrum points across the index finger in particular. In the latter part of a bend there is basically no difference between the overhand "bend" and "fold" techniques.

[Mikael Siversson]

I am not aware of any support on the board for your way of bending Mikael.

What makes you think I am discussing my way of bending. I could be a "folder" too. I would be equally happy arguing against myself.

[OldGuy]

I assumed you were a bender. What then is your style. Maybe like snapping a pencil?

[Mikael Siversson]

I can U-shape the hardest nails by starting with the reverse grip old Terminator style and then switch to the overhand folding technique. I am increasing my folding technique (i.e., starting a bend with it as well) at a faster rate than my initial reverse grip style.

[danegarreau]

I am still hoping to see a video that shows a clear difference between folding and bending. So far to me there is underhand or overhand, and that's it.

If you took a nail, like a "red" for example and sharpened the ends it would not be possible to use the overhand folding technique if you used two regular cloths. The sharp ends of the nail would penetrate the cloth and then the hands. If your hands and wrists were strong enough, it would still be possible to bend the nail, as the crush down would still be possible once the angle between the legs of the nail was small enough. The folding technique relies on the ability of the person to push hard into the initially straight bar while creating fulcrum points across the index finger in particular. In the latter part of a bend there is basically no difference between the overhand "bend" and "fold" techniques.

But the fact is that the ends of reds arn't sharpened, there for you can use any style you wish.

Personally i bend David Horne style. I have tried the "Push" style and can't seem to do much with it, mabey the leverages arn't that great for me. I have decent pec and tricep strength, but they just don't seem to carry over when i use the "push" style.

Different people have different leverages and therefore will use different styles that better suit their needs. That is just the way life is.

[Mikael Siversson]

But the fact is that the ends of reds arn't sharpened, there for you can use any style you wish.

Different people have different leverages and therefore will use different styles that better suit their needs. That is just the way life is.

..and what is your point? My original suggestion was to promote wrist strength in bending by taking the heaviest bends below 5 1/2'' as this tends to make it hard for those who like to fold the nail. The example with sharpened ends on the red nail was used to illustrate the difference between "bending" and "folding" sensu myself. It was not ment as a suggestion to manufacture "reds" with sharp ends.

[danegarreau]

IF you want to promote pure wrist strength then start your own competition where you are only allowed to bend with your hands at your waist.

It is as easy as that.

[tspinillo]

But the fact is that the ends of reds arn't sharpened, there for you can use any style you wish.

Different people have different leverages and therefore will use different styles that better suit their needs. That is just the way life is.

..and what is your point? My original suggestion was to promote wrist strength in bending by taking the heaviest bends below 5 1/2'' as this tends to make it hard for those who like to fold the nail. The example with sharpened ends on the red nail was used to illustrate the difference between "bending" and "folding" sensu myself. It was not ment as a suggestion to manufacture "reds" with sharp ends.

I think I get this now. If your goal is to U it, either "folding" or "bending" is acceptable.

If you want to emphasize the wrists, then "bend". I just re-read the Brookfield article,

he seemed to state the same thing.

I see 2 types of certs coming..... :O

In any case the overall results will be the same, you will be getting stronger.

So far the only thing, I'm good at bending is ears

T!

[Mikael Siversson]

IF you want to promote pure wrist strength then start your own competition where you are only allowed to bend with your hands at your waist.

It is as easy as that.

Thank you for your advice. Bending is not pure wrist strength. My goal is not to turn bending into a pure wrist strength event as this is not possible. However, a bag of worms have been opened in case you have not noticed.

[Scott Styles]

His distinction is valid. And shortening the nail will make folding harder. But different competitors will have different strengths anyway. For 7" and under, my chest is too weak to "fold" a nail as strong as I can bend using a reverse grip.

IMO though, if you want an event to challenge wrist strength, it's levering.

[CMunger]

I am still hoping to see a video that shows a clear difference between folding and bending. So far to me there is underhand or overhand, and that's it.

If you took a nail, like a "red" for example and sharpened the ends it would not be possible to use the overhand folding technique if you used two regular cloths. The sharp ends of the nail would penetrate the cloth and then the hands. If your hands and wrists were strong enough, it would still be possible to bend the nail, as the crush down would still be possible once the angle between the legs of the nail was small enough. The folding technique relies on the ability of the person to push hard into the initially straight bar while creating fulcrum points across the index finger in particular. In the latter part of a bend there is basically no difference between the overhand "bend" and "fold" techniques.

And if the sides were sharpened like razor blades, you couldn't use any style. And if the red nail was made out of 1/2" Titanium, the whole argument would be moot. So while what you say MAY be true, I fail to see how it would be relevant. I bend 60d's with an overhand (folding? who knows, I can do it either way) without cutting or grinding the tips down. No huge problem there. I think I'm gonna have to have someone teach me the "fold" so I can judge for myself. Right now as a non-folder (or am I?) I still fail to see the issue. Bending is bending. Wrist work is wrist curls and sledge levering.

[amaury]

However, a bag of worms have been opened in case you have not noticed.

To my knowledge there is no grip federation in any country in the world and what is the proportion of the population that is enough interested to watch or participate in a grip strength competition ? one to a million ?

You bet a bag of worm has been opened Michael, maybe someone should call the FBI to do something before it gets completely out of control ?

Instead of dulling and irritating (let's put it straight) many of us to death with your "folding" craziness and with your self appointment as a leader of the "gripboard bending morality support community" it could be better to invest energy and time in promoting grip training and find a way to keep it fun.

[Mikael Siversson]

And if the sides were sharpened like razor blades, you couldn't use any style. And if the red nail was made out of 1/2" Titanium, the whole argument would be moot. So while what you say MAY be true, I fail to see how it would be relevant. I bend 60d's with an overhand (folding? who knows, I can do it either way) without cutting or grinding the tips down. No huge problem there. I think I'm gonna have to have someone teach me the "fold" so I can judge for myself. Right now as a non-folder (or am I?) I still fail to see the issue. Bending is bending. Wrist work is wrist curls and sledge levering.

You mean it is not relevant because "if the red nail was made out of 1/2" Titanium, the whole argument would be moot"? Hmm, I think I lost the essence of your argument there.

Sledge levering is certainly not all wrists. Do you glue the shaft of the sledge onto your palm?

[Mikael Siversson]

To my knowledge there is no grip federation in any country in the world and what is the proportion of the population that is enough interested to watch or participate in a grip strength competition ? one to a million ?

You bet a bag of worm has been opened Michael, maybe someone should call the FBI to do something before it gets completely out of control ?

Instead of dulling and irritating (let's put it straight) many of us to death with your "folding" craziness and with your self appointment as a leader of the "gripboard bending morality support community" it could be better to invest energy and time in promoting grip training and find a way to keep it fun.

"To my knowledge there is no grip federation in any country in the world and what is the proportion of the population that is enough interested to watch or participate in a grip strength competition ? one to a million ?"

That is probably true as I have not heard about any formal grip organisation in any particular country. I am not sure about the exact proportion of grip strength competitors in relation to the population. Are there any studies published?

"You bet a bag of worm has been opened Michael, maybe someone should call the FBI to do something before it gets completely out of control ?"

FBI? I doubt they would be interested in bending.

"Instead of dulling and irritating (let's put it straight) many of us to death with your "folding" craziness and with your self appointment as a leader of the "gripboard bending morality support community" it could be better to invest energy and time in promoting grip training and find a way to keep it fun."

Thanks again for additional advice. They are always (well perhaps sometimes) helpful. I certainly would not want to irritate any Frenchman.

[Bill Piche]

This is getting REALLY old. Same thing as I perceive it...Mikael versus the rest of the bending world.

Maybe I am all wet, so I am going to start a poll. Locking this of course due to the ROUND AND ROUND ad nauseum posting on bending versus folding.