EricMilfeld Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 (edited) I made a calibrating device a couple of days ago. It works well, atleast for getting a comparative analysis of different stocks of the same lengths, but something didn't add up when I compared what I knew to be tougher and longer stock, with easier and shorter stock. I'll probably post a pic of the device soon. I did all bends to 45 degrees (think of each end of the bar being bent upwards by 22.5 degrees). Sorry if that sounds redundant, but "45 degrees" can be interpreted several ways. I used a loading pin in the middle and applied the upward force on the nail at a point 3/4" from the nail's end. Here's the results: 1)the easiest of the three batches of Reds I've bent- 475 lbs. 2)5/16X7" CRS purchased locally- 495 lbs. 3)Fat Bastard Barbell 5/16X7" with which I certified- 520 lbs. Note, I'll calibrate the medium tough Red in a few days or so. I'm guessing it will fall in the 490 pound range. Edited July 2, 2004 by EricMilfeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Eric, I hope you didn't deadlift the load by holding onto the nail as others claimed to have done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted July 2, 2004 Author Share Posted July 2, 2004 Eric, I hope you didn't deadlift the load by holding onto the nail as others claimed to have done! Negative, OldGuy. I made this very high-tech, space age device of pipe, chains, u-bolts, and carabiners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballdad Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 Good stuff Eric! I'd love to see where some of my 60ds and various bolts fall. Think you might have time to rate a few for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishred Posted July 3, 2004 Share Posted July 3, 2004 eric...perhaps you can do a test from different areas of the bar to put an end (or fuel) the fold vs bend debate. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted July 4, 2004 Author Share Posted July 4, 2004 (edited) Mark, I'd gladly calibrate your stock, but keep in mind that this device is giving skewed results when I compare the results of different lengths. Now if I calibrate stock of the same length, the results do give proportionately accurate results, but when I, for example, measured a 6" grd 8 at 530 pounds (well over a Red Nail) I knew something didn't add up. ishred, please elaborate on your reasoning. I'm not sure if I follow you. Edited July 4, 2004 by EricMilfeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 Eric, do you have any pics of your new testing rig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted July 4, 2004 Author Share Posted July 4, 2004 Eric, do you have any pics of your new testing rig? I'll snap some on my next days off from work (Tuesday and Wednesday). Maybe ya'll can tell me why it's not working like I intended. Where's a physicist when you need one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 Eric, do you have any pics of your new testing rig? I'll snap some on my next days off from work (Tuesday and Wednesday). Maybe ya'll can tell me why it's not working like I intended. Where's a physicist when you need one? Your setup sounds like something I suggested a while back. At the time people said they prefered to deadlift the nail as it bent under load. I thought there had to be a better way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 The advantage of David Horne's method is that the nail is held sort of as it would be during the bend. I don't think there is a better way as any device would be a step away from how a nail is actually bent using the hands. The drawback is obviously that you have to be strong in order to calibrate tough nails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 You mean the same method that was used to test,nails and bars of 5.5-8" in diameter and upto and including the 450k(990lbs)bar sent to Pat 450k would need a hell of a long loading pin and to then hold onto the bar as it bends upwards with just 2/3 fingers of each hand Here come the flames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 Gazza, You, and many others have seen the long 2" thick bar I use for partials (and calibrating), so of course I never used a loading pin! Sheesh! Also don't you believe I could lift the 450k? I've actually in the past lifted 686k on a partial lift, and near 900k on a harness lift with the same apparatus. These were in All-round weightlifting contests over 10 years ago. Anyway, not a lot else that can be said about such a post, and we won't have to worry about the challenge bars anymore. I shall just be working and training. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 Not to add fuel to anyone's fire but what we need is a standard method of measuring bars. If everyone used the same method, we should all be close enough to most purposes. It should be something that can be done with a minimum of equipment and perhaps a method that doesn't require quite as much strength as Davids method seems to. A standardized degee of bend (in either degrees or inches from straight by length), diameter of loading point device, and method of appling force to the ends seem to be the main items to address. Even though David's method seems to be very consistant for him, I wonder if other people grip enough the same as he does to reproduce his results consistantly. What's important seems to be the actual strength of the steel, and then regardless of the bending method used, we have demonstrated the same strength of bending. It seems as if something somewhat more consistantly reproducable by everyone might be developed that all could accept. Perhaps using slings or chain on the ends of the bars plus a longer bar attached to lift with - I'll leave the method to those of you with better math and strengths skills but an easy, accepted by all method would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishred Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 eric, what i mean is that people seem to be having a folding/bending arguement. Folding = your hands are closer to the ends (ie, the bar might rest in your mid palm), and less pressure would be needed to bend the nails. (at least thats what I gather from the info that i've read) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I agree with Gazza. I refuse to believe that using a nail to hold on to, that several hundred pounds could be lifted, and then held to see how much a nail would bend if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Tom tested up to 300lbs. If you can test 500 to 900 lbs by holding onto the nail until it bends, then post pics or videos. I for one do not believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 David i fully believe that you have partially lifted 450k and more in the past,i dont think that yourself or anyone else can partially deadlift 450k on a 8-10mms thick bar and hold onto it while the bar bends,whilst also only being able to get 2-3 fingers of each hand on the bar. I meant this post as a way of saying that the Tom Blacks testing method was a very crude way of testing nails/bolts/bars etc.I was not infirring anything other than it was crude and used for the challenge bars also,i tried to find another way to say it but,i came straight to the point and new i would be flamed for it Certain people seem to be awefully bothered about Erics style of bending,which is fun and not done for competition perposes(i think this is why he bends)but he is over anilized,just a pity the challenge bars and how they are tested are not scrutinized as much(its not rocket science)1 bar is selected from each bundle/batch and tested via the tom black method,so the other bars/nails/bolts could be under or over the one tested,but this accepted without any scrutiny,yet the grippers,are often disected,so are peoples bending styles,so why not the bars and lifting method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Ok, I cleaned this up all around. Let's keep from the PERSONAL attacks please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suterp Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Why not just put the bar in a vice and hang a weight a certain distance (3 inches?) from the edge of the vice? It's a simply way of rating different batches or thicknesses and comparing difficulties of bends of equal length. I don't think there's any way to quantitatively compare the difficulty of bends of different lengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 One more thing. There are disagreements on bending styles, form, etc. I don't think anyone is going to convince the other to "see the light" and change their opinion. Let's revel in the fact that there CAN be differences in opinion and everyone is respected for their opinions. We do a SUPER JOB with the super various training philosophies on this board. We respect each other and learn from each other. Let's start doing it with bending styles, stock sizes, calibration methods, etc. in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 (edited) calibater blurry close upcalibrater Here's the photos of the calibrater I promised. Click the end of the link to see the second photo. After reading Clay's question about the brand new Reds, I tested one. It came out at 490 pounds, which is only 3% more than the Reds of a couple of months ago. Not a big difference at all. Of course calibrater error could be figured in as well, just in case I'm not perfect. Of course I would place the load in the middle of the nail you see there. Edited July 7, 2004 by EricMilfeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagual Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 The link doesn't work for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 You know, there's times when I feel like doing a little sledge work with this computer. It was working last night. I'll have to get Sandra to help me fix it when we get back from the zoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 I just uploaded a picture of the calibrater in the gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Edgin Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 (edited) That's a good idea. Here's a thought - a thick leather strip to support the nail along its entire length. I think a 15-16oz (slightly thicker than 1/4", probably the same stuff in your powerlifting belt) piece of vegetable tanned leather about 2" wide and 9" long would work. Here is how I think I would make it work: Cut leather strap Punch a hole in the middle of the strap on each end Set a heavy duty grommet in the hole Fasten your chain to the hole in the leather via a quicklink on each side Position nail in the middle of the leather, attach your carabiner with weight and lift away. As the nail bends under the weight, the leather should also bend and continue to support the nail along its entirety throughout the whole bend. What do you think? My brain is half fuzzy today so I apologize if it's not clear. It would take a tremendous load to make the leather rip. Edited July 7, 2004 by ClayEdgin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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