dispencer Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Aim: Rate the bend strength of various bolts, nails and bar stock in order to provide a progression path for bending. Equipment: IM Loading pin Cotton tea towel (torn in half length wise) Weight plates (Australian Barbell Company) Various bolts, nails and round rod (see results) Deadlift bunny --- me. Method: 1. Load the IM loading pin with 5kg weight increment. 2. Place test material through hole in IM loading pin. 3. Pad hands with folded tea towel 4. Slowly deadlift the weight by pulling up on the test material. Hands positioned so the maximum number of fingers are on the test material, but so it does not protrude outside the edges of the fingers/hands. 5. If bar deformed record weight, else repeat step 1-5. Deformation to be recorded at two stages. First for a kink in the material, this is a bend of approximately 1/4" in the middle (approx. 10 degrees). Second for a bend in the material, this is a bend of approximately 1/2" in the middle (approx 20 degrees). Results: All results are in kg (values in brackets are pounds). Results are for ONE sample only. Weight is the total of that indicated on the plates and does NOT include IM loading pin. Kink is a bend in the material of approximately 1/4". Bend is a bend in the material of approximately 1/2". Material Kink Bend ------------------------------------------ Bunnings 6mm(1/4")x7" 70 75 (165) Hex Bolt 4.6 M6x150mm 70 75 (165) Nail bright 5.6x150mm 80 85 (187) Bunnings 6mm(1/4")x6" 85 90 (198) Mitre10 (red) 1/4"x7" 85 90 (198) Steel supplier 1/4"x7" 85 90 (198) Bright Mild 1/4"x7" 90 95 (209) Hex Bolt G2 1/4"x6" 95 100 (220) Galv Nail 5.6x150mm 95 100 (220) Steel supplier 1/4"x6" 100 105 (231) Mitre10 (red) 1/4"x6" 105 110 (242) Bright Mild 1/4"x6" 110 115 (253) IM Blue Nail 1/4"x6" 115 120 (264) Hex Bolt G2 1/4"x5" - 120 (264) Bright Mild 1/4"x5" 130 135+ (297) Bunnings 8mm x 7" 135 140 (308) Hex Bolt G5 1/4"x6" 145 150 (330) IM Red Nail 5/16"x7" 175 180 (396) Discussion: Some notes on the results and test methodology. As noted in the results there was only one sample of each material tested. This was due to time restrictions and in part the work volume in one session. Each measurement was at least 3 lifts. One with a lighter weight, one with a kinking weigh, and one with the bending weight. Often another 2-3 lifts were performed with to get the final result. Although this is OK with the easier materials by the time the RED nail was tested this adds up quickly. By the way this is an interesting way to work the grip for those unaccustomed to it (me). The correlation between the bending weight measured and the difficulty to bend the material unbraced is somewhat questionable. The shorter lengths (eg. 5") especially can feel somewhat awkward, which seems to add to their difficulty. The bends were all performed and measured "by eye". The actual bend was not measured exactly (can't locate a protractor) but were within the 15-20 degree range. As a consequence the results are somewhat rough, but should still offer a good guide. Materials which fall in-between the IM BLUE and G5 would make good stepping stones. Unfortunately 1/4" square could not be obtained from local steel suppliers. Flat bar may also make good stepping stones. Conclusion: The G5 bolt is approximately halfway in between the RED and the BLUE. The jump from a BLUE to a RED is big. Anyone bending RED nails is doing something pretty special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcham Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Fantastic stuff David! Glad someone finally did this for us in oz... better you than me This one is especially interesting: Bunnings 8mm x 7" 135 140 (308) No way would I have thought that 8mm steel could be that soft! Going to have to get some of this to help get to grade 5s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octogen Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 David thats awesome, thanks for doing that! Does the "bright mild" refer to the 1020 stock you sent me and is the "steel supplier" stock the stuff I sent down? Its good to see that until you get to the G5 to Red gap there is stock in 5-10kg increments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dispencer Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Don, Yes the "bright mild" refers to the S1020 grade steel I sent you. The "steel supplier" stock is the stuff you sent me. As a side note the bright mild is a pretty generic term steel suppliers seem to use. From what I gather it means the steel has a bright finish (duh) but also that it has been processed in some way, eg. cold rolled. Hence it is "tougher". Anyway most of the standard round stock from steel suppliers seems to be C1020 grade. Also don't forget even more increments can be obtained by shorter or longer lengths. Sometimes even a 5kg increment can stump me for a while. Mark, Yeah, the 8mm Bunnings stock looks to be the best option I've found, so far, to progress. Unlike the IM nails it's really dull in appearance, see above comment on bright finished steel. Also when you bend it (I've only managed the 6mm stuff) it bends with a big radius, where the harder steel bends with a sharper kink. I'm a little disappointed I didn't have more cheap sources to move between the BLUE and RED nails. As mentioned I couldn't find any 1/4" square. There's a few options still to chase, namely flat bar and some of the higher grade steels (eg. C1045 has a tensile strength of 585 MPa vs. 394 MPa of C1020). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octogen Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 David, For square, flat, hexagon and other different stock try www.blackwoods.com.au This is where I got the grade 5 and 4.6 bolts and they stock a huge range of stuff including different types of round bar, brass and stuff. I've got the catalogue at work and I can easily look up item numbers for you, then just call them up for a local depot and they will move it from there central store to the depot for pickup. Next time I get paid I was going to get some square, hex and brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octogen Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 (edited) In fact just cause i've got 12 hrs of night shift to kill here is some stuff i've looked up. Blackwoods steel stock (most comes in 4m lengths) Description - Size (mm) - Part number Flat bar - 10x3 - 0577 4810 Flat bar - 10x5 - 0199 2255 Flat bar - 13x3 - 0577 5110 Flat bar - 13x5 - 0577 5411 Mild round - 6 - 0204 3357 Mild round - 6.3 - 0130 3057 Mild round - 8 - 0130 3111 Mild Square - 6 - 0204 3556 Mild Square - 8 - 0204 3658 Bright round - 4.76 - 0576 4118 (1030 steel) Bright round - 6 - 0142 9367 Bright round - 6.35 - 0576 4215 Bright round - 7.94 - 0576 4312 Bright round - 4.76 - 0143 3858 (1214 steel) Bright round - 6 - 0143 3954 Bright round - 6.35 - 0143 4057 Bright round - 7.94 - 0143 4159 Bright square - 4.76 - 0139 2861 (1214 steel) Bright square - 6.35 - 0139 3053 Bright square - 7.94 - 0139 3360 (good luck!) Bright hex - 6.35 - 0053 4888 Bright hex - 7.14 - 0140 7156 Bright hex - 7.94 - 0140 7253 Brass round - 7.14 - 0142 3758 Brass round - 7.94 - 0578 3319 Stainless round - 4.76 - 0132 8756 Stainless round - 6.35 - 0132 8853 Stainless round - 7.94 - 0132 8954 enough variety for yah? Edited June 7, 2004 by Octogen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Fantastic stuff David! Glad someone finally did this for us in oz... better you than me This one is especially interesting: Bunnings 8mm x 7" 135 140 (308) No way would I have thought that 8mm steel could be that soft! Going to have to get some of this to help get to grade 5s. The 8mm stock at Bunnings in the Perth area is nowhere near a blue nail in difficulty; it is way harder. A 7'' piece of it is considerably harder than a 5 1/2'' 270k challenge bar and may even be harder than a red nail of the same length. They must keep different stocks of 8mm in WA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dispencer Posted June 8, 2004 Author Share Posted June 8, 2004 Don, Thanks for the info. I'll try a few more local options first but I expect I'll be coming back to Blackwoods. BTW, those galv. nails you sent me make the normal bright nails (Ajax and Otter brand 5.6mm x 150mm) look like a joke. They are WAY tougher. I happened to have a set of vernier callipers at home last night and measured it. They aren't 5.6mm at all, more like 6.9mm!!! Scrape off the galv. coating and it would probably still be over 1/4" (6.35mm). No wonder they are so much tougher. You say you got the galv. nails from Mitre10? Might just have to go out and get some. Mikael, The stock in the local Bunnings (Adelaide) is nothing like other steel I've tried. It seems very soft, and has a dull finish. Which to me indicates it hasn't been cold drawn or hardened in any way. The way it bends is different too; large radius not a sharp kink. Also, from my experience, the 8mm Bunnings stock IS no where near a blue. It is MUCH harder, even at 1" longer. Having said all of that, I seem to remember reading that some Bunnings also sell CRS rather than the "Hobby steel" which I tested. This could explain the difference also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octogen Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Dave, The nails I sent you were from mitre 10 and they are Otter brand "Bullet head , Galvanised 150 x 5.6mm" and they have a little red patch on the packet saying "incorporating TITAN" I took a couple of nails over to Jeff Ts place last week and he thought they were going to be like his bright nails! Big difference... I tried his bright nails and they were dead easy compared to the galvanised ones. I'm going to use the galvanised ones to build volume on the way to the G5. There should be a Blackwoods pretty close to wherever you are, they have heaps of branches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 dispencer, I would be very interested in trying some of that soft 8 mm that you get at Bunnings in Adelaide. In return I can supply you with various 1/4'' stock that I have access to in Perth. The hardest one is almost identical in strength to the IM yellow/blue stock (I can't tell them apart), so you could get an IM equivalent much cheaper than buying it from IM. Nick tried some of it and liked it I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff T Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Good work David, it's nice to have something to work from. Thanks. Believe it or not I think the 1/4" stock from Bunnings that I have is even easier than the stuff you tested. I tested 2 of the 6"x1/4" hex head bolts that I bought from Bunnings several months ago and they both bent significantly at about 75kg. However, the 1/4" stock was so much easier than this that they couldn't even be compared. Even at 4" the stock wasn't as hard as the bolt. I believe it is the same stock, it's very dull in colour and bends in a wide circle. It also seems to harden on bending as trying to unbend it makes a 'W' kind of shape, if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dispencer Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Mikael, If you'd like to trade for some of the 8mm Bunnings stock PM me. I already have both IM Blues (which I save for tests) and some 1/4" which is VERY close to the Blue and is cheap and easy to get (just under $1 per metre). I'd be very interested if you had any challenge bars or something else. Anyway if you're still interested PM me. Jeff, I did two separate tests on the 1/4" Bunnings stock (it's labelled 6mm, but measured 6.35mm, or 1/4"). The first test was at 60 kg for an initial kink and 70 for a significant bend. I repeated the test later (could have been a different length it was cut from) and got the result listed. I'd put it down to bad initial testing, ie. too much jerking the weight off the ground. As for the G2s I tested, they seemed a bit on the hard side from the limited ones I've bent before ...but that's G2's for you I have tried unbending a few pieces I've bent. After about the second piece I gave it up. I did try breaking some of the Bunnings 1/4" when I first started. After about 10 minutes my hands were sore and I thought "maybe I'll just stick with bending them for a while before trying breaking them again" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripmaniac Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Just to add to this: The 6.3mm (HRS?) (cut to 6") I got from Bunnings is "about" the same as an IM Yellow. The 8mm from Bunnings . . . . . . . .I'm not that strong yet (but it's tougher than an IM Blue). If you're after hard nails, get some Otter dipped 6" nails. They're a fair bit harder than a standard bright nail. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripmaniac Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Material Kink Bend------------------------------------------ Bunnings 6mm(1/4")x7" 70 75 (165) Hex Bolt 4.6 M6x150mm 70 75 (165) Nail bright 5.6x150mm 80 85 (187) Bunnings 6mm(1/4")x6" 85 90 (198) Mitre10 (red) 1/4"x7" 85 90 (198) Steel supplier 1/4"x7" 85 90 (198) Bright Mild 1/4"x7" 90 95 (209) Hex Bolt G2 1/4"x6" 95 100 (220) Galv Nail 5.6x150mm 95 100 (220) Steel supplier 1/4"x6" 100 105 (231) Mitre10 (red) 1/4"x6" 105 110 (242) Bright Mild 1/4"x6" 110 115 (253) IM Blue Nail 1/4"x6" 115 120 (264) Hex Bolt G2 1/4"x5" - 120 (264) Bright Mild 1/4"x5" 130 135+ (297) Bunnings 8mm x 7" 135 140 (308) Hex Bolt G5 1/4"x6" 145 150 (330) IM Red Nail 5/16"x7" 175 180 (396) David, Any chance you could rate a: Bunnings (Hex) G2 5/16" * 6" bolt? I'm "flexing" them at the moment - but a kink is just beyond me. . . . currently David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dispencer Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 David, Next time I'm calling into Bunnings I'll pick up a couple to test. I'll post the results when I do. I typically don't use bolts much as they are a bit on the expensive side compared to some other stuff. Still good for variety I'd also agree with your statement re: Bunnings 6mm at 6" being close to a IM Yellow. I measured it at 90 kg (bend). IM Yellow would be around 100 kg mark. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_rex Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 I'm digging up this old thread. Has anyone measured a 5.6x125mm nail? 125mm being ~5". I can bend them easily. So I've been cutting them down to 4" and they're still pretty simple. But if I cut them any shorter, my hands can't hold it properly, so I don't know my limit yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Nice work and alot of DL's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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