Sybersnott Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 That's a shadow. What?!? In bright daylight? Look.... I'm not here to judge - it's already passed, I'm telling you what I SEE, and that's what I see. Did he close the gripper or not? Only the shadow knows.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 When in doubt do it again - it's not a one off is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 When in doubt do it again - it's not a one off is it? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 In most steel sports there is a required clear stop so that the judges can see that the starting and/or lockouts is properly performed. The gripper sport will almost surely have to go there as well sooner or later. And then videos will have an easy time catching that as well. Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bseedot Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 This is almost getting funny now. I was away from the boards for the weekend. I just sent this to Bill for fun. I'd never tried the HG300 and we had the video already set-up from Matt and Jeff taking their attempts at the MMG1. Part of the reason I sent it to Bill was to show that the gripper was in the frame the entire time, unlike Matt's and Jeff's clips. It's interesting what people see, and don't see, in the video. I can assure you that the gripper was most definitely closed. When I closed it I wasn't even trying to make sure it was set to parallel- I just wanted to show Bill another video clip of a gripper being closed to see if there was anything you or I could learn from it. This wasn't any Certification and there were no 'official' witnesses. Just some guys closing some grippers. "Read the times. How is the witness going to be able to see that the handles are parallel in less than .1 seconds? It's not physically possible IMO unless I am missing something." I don't understand the issue here. The witness does not have his eyes closed, only to open them as the setting hand is removed. He is (or should be) watching the gripper from the moment he gives it to the person until the moment it is back in his hands. What the witness has to watch for is this... are the handles at, or greater than, parallel at the moment the setting hand is removed. He should be watching the entire set process and this is where my runner beating out a throw in baseball analogy comes from. You have to be focused on two things at once. 1) When is the setting hand removed? and 2) at point 1) are the handles at least parallel. Yes, this can be difficult to judge, but if it's not clear then the judge shouldn't pass the attempt- it's as simple as that. "I think the person shooting the video should be responsible for saying they didnt get a good clean shot as well, cause when videos like this turn up it only starts contraversy." This is very difficult to do when looking through a .5"x1" eye piece or even a 1.5"x1.5" LCD display. The capability to immediately review an attempt on a large monitor is usually not possible, at least in my experience. "That being said, IMHO I think the gripper was TOO FAR AWAY from the shot - it needs to be much, MUCH closer. When I do gripper closes on my camcorder, I have to stick the gripper right up against the camera. That way you can see EVERYTHING and there is no doubt whatsoever about the close." That's all well and good, but then you won't be able to see, for example, if I'm bracing my elbow on my hip. As has already been said there is a trade-off. If we want the hand taking up the entire screen then the witness will have to be unquestionably relied on to judge other things, such as bracing, etc. "That's a shadow. What?!? In bright daylight?" Actually, that's when I would expect most shadows to occur... I can't tell by the video either, but if I had to guess, and since it was my close, I'd guess that the handles were probably past parallel when my setting hand was removed. I naturally set it deeper than that and I wasn't trying to make sure they were parallel anyway. So, anyway, this was just another video clip for y'all- no more, no less. Since I'm coming up on my MMG1 Certification attempt in a few weeks, it was nice to get some feedback on my only gripper attempt ever captured on video. Live and learn. I've got some KTA training to do now. BC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 It's all way to technical for what is another wise simple process. Why are we going down the 'lets complicate it' route? If the video isn't clear in the eye of the person giving out the certificates then do it again (I know this one was just a clip and not for certification but lets get the bugs out now). If over setting is wrong, don't do it. If the witness cannot see the set or the closure then it's invalid. The day I start handing out $10000 or even Bill Morrison with his $500.00 - as opposed to the glory we get right now is the day we should argue over the minutae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 The only reason I put this up was a final "tone" settting and "expectation" setting going forward. Sorry about that Brian. I knew exactly what the video was and I knew from your perspective it was never intended to be anything but showing one could stay on camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 One final note of tone setting.... When the witness and if the judges make their call, that's it. Everyone here is human and we will do the best we can given the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bseedot Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 The only reason I put this up was a final "tone" settting and "expectation" setting going forward. Sorry about that Brian. I knew exactly what the video was and I knew from your perspective it was never intended to be anything but showing one could stay on camera. No apology necessary. I'm glad you decided to post it for others to see. The more practice we have performing in front of a camera, running the camera, and viewing those recordings, the better we all get. BC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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