Whats considered "average"

[kylerh2048]

I was intrigued with grip training watching Dr.Mike on YouTube of renaissance periodization. He mentioned captains of crush and the rest is history for me. 

Im curious though because when I started with COC, I bought the COC trainer. That was tough in the beginning. So I'm curious what is considered "average". 

Edited April 18 by kylerh2048
Grammar

[alan_fra]

Hi ,

 

I would say that not being able to close the Coc 1 is average. I tested the Coc 1 on a 30 year old that works in a clinic but was an ex athlete with an enlarged heart due to overtraining  and a 55 year old farmer who claimed he had carried 100 kg weight in each hand when he was younger. They both could not close it and the closest was like 7 mm away. 

[Scottex92]

2 hours ago, alan_fra said:

Hi ,

 

I would say that not being able to close the Coc 1 is average. I tested the Coc 1 on a 30 year old that works in a clinic but was an ex athlete with an enlarged heart due to overtraining  and a 55 year old farmer who claimed he had carried 100 kg weight in each hand when he was younger. They both could not close it and the closest was like 7 mm away. 

I wouldn't count untrained people as average. I think a better indicator is what you can close after a year of training. IMO a #2 is pretty average, #2.5 starts to get heavy, then the #3 is advanced, #3.5 for elite and #4 world class.

[alan_fra]

48 minutes ago, Scottex92 said:

I wouldn't count untrained people as average. I think a better indicator is what you can close after a year of training. IMO a #2 is pretty average, #2.5 starts to get heavy, then the #3 is advanced, #3.5 for elite and #4 world class.

I would say that for trained people #2 is average, 2.5 is advanced , 3 is world class since only up to 300 people in the world have been certified with a ccs close by Ironmind. 3.5 is the elite of the world class. 4 is extreme elite of world class level. So rare

[CruxGripman]

Just as a potential reference, I have been an athlete my whole life (still am) I’m 36 years old and only just started training grippers this past January. The day I received my coc 5 piece set (T, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5)

day one I could close the #2 and was about 3mm from closing the #2.5 (parallel set)

not sure if you’re looking for average amongst sedentary individuals, or active individuals 

[Scottex92]

36 minutes ago, alan_fra said:

I would say that for trained people #2 is average, 2.5 is advanced , 3 is world class since only up to 300 people in the world have been certified with a ccs close by Ironmind. 3.5 is the elite of the world class. 4 is extreme elite of world class level. So rare

well I don't think CCS closes are the best to test the closing power, it is more of a display of dominion and technique over a gripper. MMS #3 is more forgiving than CCS #3 but elite nontheless

[C8Myotome]

3 hours ago, alan_fra said:

I would say that for trained people #2 is average, 2.5 is advanced , 3 is world class since only up to 300 people in the world have been certified with a ccs close by Ironmind. 3.5 is the elite of the world class. 4 is extreme elite of world class level. So rare

Only about half of the total 3 certs have been done with CCS due to  multiple rule changes over time.

The others are basically parallel certs on a gripper already broken in through training.

Doing CCS on a brand new gripper fresh out of the package is completely different.

There's so many factors that go into what someone's starting gripper is though that I don't think this figure means a lot, I generally just say what's on CPW website which states basically 45-70 rgc for untrained vs trained, which I still think are insane numbers

I started with a brand new coc 2.5 (not even broken in from CPW, from rogue website) which later rated 127 which I did TNS because I didn't know about setting for a long time, then got a 3 a while later and almost TNS'd it until I tried setting it, and did CCS my first time trying setting a 3; this one also wasn't a CPW broken in gripper but later ended up rating 147. And 2 years 9 months later CCS 173 and GHP block 180.

Had I known anything about setting, or had a 3 on my first day trying I'm confident I could have closed a 3 on my first day, so then I would a different answer, this is why I don't think people's starting numbers mean much

Edited April 18 by C8Myotome

[bruce1337]

If you handed someone a gripper who has never trained it and told them to close it they would always attempt to do a TNS with the back handle way down their thumb pad. Most people cant close a #1 first try because they dont know about setting it. Teach people to set a gripper and they smash it.

I took my grippers to a weightlifting gym a few years ago and had everyone attempt it. They all failed a coc#1. Then I showed them how to set the gripper, almost all of them closed it immediately afterwards. They all failed on the coc#2 with the closest being a few mm off. Granted the coc#2 they used rates in the 110's (ballpark estimate from how easy my 98 coc#2 feels). If I had handed them an average #2 a few would have closed it.

A #2 in my opinion is what I consider average. (100 rgc)

Edited April 18 by bruce1337

[Cannon]

1 hour ago, bruce1337 said:

I took my grippers to a weightlifting gym a few years ago and had everyone attempt it. They all failed a coc#1. Then I showed them how to set the gripper, almost all of them closed it immediately afterwards. They all failed on the coc#2 with the closest being a few mm off. Granted the coc#2 they used rates in the 110's (ballpark estimate from how easy my 98 coc#2 feels). If I had handed them an average #2 a few would have closed it.

My experience is similar. I have run many "grip gauntlet" booths at USAPL meets and had grippers at my desk in corporate America for about 15 years. The average guy, untrained in grip, can close a #1 after they've been shown anything about how to hold the gripper. There was more upside at the powerlifting meets. Sometimes a guy would walk up and no set a #2 and ask "what are these?" That never happened at my desk job. A lot of the powerlifting folks could give the #2 a real scare after being shown how to hold a gripper. There was more downside at the corporate crowd. There would be guys who just couldn't quite get the Trainer even after receiving tips. You could always see the skew was really affecting them from a coordination standpoint and they would predictably exclaim, "it's trying to twist out of my hand!" 

But, on average, any given untrained guy that tried could usually close the #1. 

[DoctorOfCrush]

35 minutes ago, Cannon said:

My experience is similar. I have run many "grip gauntlet" booths at USAPL meets and had grippers at my desk in corporate America for about 15 years. The average guy, untrained in grip, can close a #1 after they've been shown anything about how to hold the gripper. There was more upside at the powerlifting meets. Sometimes a guy would walk up and no set a #2 and ask "what are these?" That never happened at my desk job. A lot of the powerlifting folks could give the #2 a real scare after being shown how to hold a gripper. There was more downside at the corporate crowd. There would be guys who just couldn't quite get the Trainer even after receiving tips. You could always see the skew was really affecting them from a coordination standpoint and they would predictably exclaim, "it's trying to twist out of my hand!" 

But, on average, any given untrained guy that tried could usually close the #1. 

I was going to chime in once I got to work saying that Matt would probably have the most experience with this because I remembered this anecdote from another thread. 

In my limited experience of just a few folks, they seem to hover around a #1. Either they can TNS it or get it after I show them the broad strokes of how to set it. 

I was not one of those people. It took me some time to close the #1, even with teaching myself how to set. But I'm not a naturally strong person. 

[Zeferin]

10 hours ago, Scottex92 said:

ну, я не думаю, что закрытие CCS - лучший способ проверить силу закрытия, это скорее демонстрация доминирования и техники над захватом. MMS №3 более щадящий, чем CCS №3, но, тем не менее, элитный.

ccs is one of the most difficult types of installation

[kylerh2048]

My experience has been I started in September. I started with the trainer and I can now close a 2.5. So I was just curious what others have observed. 

[kurtwpg]

On 4/17/2024 at 11:20 PM, kylerh2048 said:

I was intrigued with grip training watching Dr.Mike on YouTube of renaissance periodization. He mentioned captains of crush and the rest is history for me. 

Im curious though because when I started with COC, I bought the COC trainer. That was tough in the beginning. So I'm curious what is considered "average". 

My experience is that for males Trainer is 50/50. The majority of people who seek out grippers are already in good shape so the majority will be able to close it. If you can close a #2 you either a) have trained grippers or b) are Jamal Browner.

[CruxGripman]

On 4/18/2024 at 6:39 PM, C8Myotome said:

Only about half of the total 3 certs have been done with CCS due to  multiple rule changes over time.

The others are basically parallel certs on a gripper already broken in through training.

Doing CCS on a brand new gripper fresh out of the package is completely different.

There's so many factors that go into what someone's starting gripper is though that I don't think this figure means a lot, I generally just say what's on CPW website which states basically 45-70 rgc for untrained vs trained, which I still think are insane numbers

I started with a brand new coc 2.5 (not even broken in from CPW, from rogue website) which later rated 127 which I did TNS because I didn't know about setting for a long time, then got a 3 a while later and almost TNS'd it until I tried setting it, and did CCS my first time trying setting a 3; this one also wasn't a CPW broken in gripper but later ended up rating 147. And 2 years 9 months later CCS 173 and GHP block 180.

Had I known anything about setting, or had a 3 on my first day trying I'm confident I could have closed a 3 on my first day, so then I would a different answer, this is why I don't think people's starting numbers mean much

My god, this is a pretty insane starting point, what’s your athletic background? You a big fella?

[DoctorOfCrush]

2 minutes ago, CruxGripman said:

My god, this is a pretty insane starting point, what’s your athletic background? You a big fella?

 

[steeve tremblay]

On 18/04/2024 at 04:10, CruxGripman said:

À titre de référence potentielle, j'ai été un athlète toute ma vie (je le suis toujours). J'ai 36 ans et je viens tout juste de commencer à m'entraîner aux préhenseurs en janvier dernier. Le jour où j'ai reçu mon coffret coc 5 pièces (T, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5)

le premier jour, j'ai pu fermer le n°2 et j'étais à environ 3 mm de la fermeture du n°2,5 (ensemble parallèle)

je ne sais pas si vous recherchez une moyenne parmi les personnes sédentaires ou les personnes actives 

I checked and you are at a very high level to be 4mm from 2.5 in such a short time; vari say you have high potential and I rely on your forearms and the jit jut su ;; you already have a huge grip before even starting so.....

[Jared P]

I started not being able to close the Trainer, even after knowing how to set the gripper. I could only close the CoC Sport, took me 3 weeks to close the Trainer. This was due to having done no heavy strength training or much regular manual labor of any kind in my life. I had decent biceps, but my forearm muscles and grip strength were incredibly weak.

I've had many coworkers try my grippers, and most people could not close the CoC 1, and the few who could, could not close the CoC 2.

I'm guessing:

Little weight training or manual labor history - Between CoC Sport to CoC 1 starting point
Moderate weight training or manual labor history - Between CoC 1 and CoC 2 starting point
Extensive/heavy weight training or manual labor history - Between CoC 2 and CoC 3 starting point

[C8Myotome]

27 minutes ago, Jared P said:

I started not being able to close the Trainer, even after knowing how to set the gripper. I could only close the CoC Sport, took me 3 weeks to close the Trainer. This was due to having done no heavy strength training or much regular manual labor of any kind in my life. I had decent biceps, but my forearm muscles and grip strength were incredibly weak.

I've had many coworkers try my grippers, and most people could not close the CoC 1, and the few who could, could not close the CoC 2.

I'm guessing:

Little weight training or manual labor history - Between CoC Sport to CoC 1 starting point
Moderate weight training or manual labor history - Between CoC 1 and CoC 2 starting point
Extensive/heavy weight training or manual labor history - Between CoC 2 and CoC 3 starting point

I always keep an eye on your progress because we started grippers 1 day apart, and yes I had an extensive history with weights so very accurate 

[Hannes]

The first time I bought grippers I bought the CoC 1 and 2. I had read somewhere, most likely here, that most people could start with 1, with 2 as a goal if you've done manual labor. My dad drove me to pick them up at the post office and the both of us could close the 1 and 2 without setting or anything.

I have brought a CoC 2 to work and no one so far has been able to close it, did bring a .5 also and all the guys could close that and one 20ish woman

Edited April 20 by Hannes

[Hubgeezer]

On 4/20/2024 at 12:10 PM, Hannes said:

The first time I bought grippers I bought the CoC 1 and 2. I had read somewhere, most likely here, that most people could start with 1, with 2 as a goal if you've done manual labor. My dad drove me to pick them up at the post office and the both of us could close the 1 and 2 without setting or anything.

I have brought a CoC 2 to work and no one so far has been able to close it, did bring a .5 also and all the guys could close that and one 20ish woman

This is absolute proof that people from Iceland may be among the strongest in the world.

[Fist of Fury]

Grippers are a very useless tool to estimate someones crushing potential if you haven't trained them because it's a very technical skill to close them. I would say around 50% of the people who first try a grippers is not even holding the gripper in such a way it's even possible to close it at all, even if they were stronger than the Hulk himself. 

Therefore testing people with a dynamometer is a much better way for people who have no experience with grip training.

There some variance in dynamometers of course but in general I would say that 50-70 kg / 110-155 lbs for an adult male should be considered average. I have tried quite a lot of people on dynamometers and for people who have never trained grippers I have never seen a number outside of this range.