jad Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Has anyone tried the Joe Kinney handle idea out of the new CoC book? I'm doing KTA right now but was thinking about making one when I'm done. I really don't see how its any different than my Hardy Handshake though. You would be bringing your palm towards your fingers much like the HH and the opposite of the gripper motion and you would be using bodyweight to close something you normally couldn't handle. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 it looks very similar to the hardy handshake, only cheaper. BTW how do you like your hardy handshake? I've heard mixed reviews, just curious. I don't want this to turn into a debate about diff machines. -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I have a handshake and don't much care for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 My main gripe with the HH is that it's too easy to cheat. I bought a plate loaded gripping machine so I could move up small amounts at a time and continuously make progress. What I noticed was that I could move up 2.5-5lbs(real weight not the ratio) and think I was getting stronger and then test on my goal gripper and get nowhere. If you put the slightest hint of tricep or shoulder in you can move up 2.5-5lbs pretty steadily, none of which transfers to your gripper. I would be as strict as I could on it but constantly have to test myself on my goal gripper to see if I was getting anywhere or just using too much body english. Other than that I really like mine. Its great for building up the last two fingers and easy to do negatives with but once again you run into the cheating problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 jad- Good report. thanks. -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Browne Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Has anyone tried the Joe Kinney handle idea out of the new CoC book? I'm doing KTA right now but was thinking about making one when I'm done. I really don't see how its any different than my Hardy Handshake though. You would be bringing your palm towards your fingers much like the HH and the opposite of the gripper motion and you would be using bodyweight to close something you normally couldn't handle. Am I missing something The drawback with the extended handle ala J. Kinney is that the gripper will roll inside the handle unless, as Joe states, you wear a glove and hold the spring with your free hand to keep it from rotating. A safety measure so your wrist will not receive a severe twist if it did rotate while the working handle is closed to the extended handle using your body weight. Kinney`s handle is a good tool to ease a heavy gripper into a negative position without the fight. Once in position though the fight returns big time!! I took Kinney`s extended handle and configured it to suit me by using different ID tubing that permanently afixes the gripper so that the possible rotation is now eliminated. In other words, I scarificed a few heavy grippers that are permanently configured inside smaller tubing than 1 inch OD. If I want to remove these grippers I will have to cut them out with a die grinder or an angle grinder with a metal cut off blade... to much detail to explain the process so I shall forego that My main reason for this response is to relate a phone conversation I had with Tetting this week to see if he would custom make a gripper with an extended handle of 3/4 inch like the grippers come with and to roll pin it like he does with his normal grippers. Definitely will dismiss any rotation fear He said he could do it so I have one in the making now. We decided to use 3/4 x 9 inches long coldrolled steel for the handle. Tetting was unsure if an aluminum extended handle would withstand the pressure put upon it in this fashion. However, he said he will obtain a couple of 9 inch Alum. handles and test them to see how they fared. My grippers I configured work great.. The rotation factor is eliminated, but the smallest stainless steel tubing I have is 7/8 OD with about 11/16 ID. That caused me to mill the insertion handle down to fit. They fit damn tight too. Put a coating of JB Weld on it and the gripper does not move in the handle. But I wanted an extended handle of 3/4 inch like the grippers have and Tetting is going to fill the bill I chose the Grand Elite for this one and the Pro as a follow up if the configuration works I should have it in about a week. I will report what I think after a few tries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Can't wait to hear how it works! How do you know how much bodyweight you're using and thus what kind of progress you're making on your handle? The bodyweight/body english factor is the problem I have with the HH and I can't see how it would be different on the Handle. I think the HH and the Handle are both great ideas I just can't get around this obstacle. At least when I cheat close a gripper with two hands and then use one I know exactly where I'm at and there's no cheating, then again I still can't completely cheat close my #4 so there are flaws with this method as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Browne Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Can't wait to hear how it works! How do you know how much bodyweight you're using and thus what kind of progress you're making on your handle? The bodyweight/body english factor is the problem I have with the HH and I can't see how it would be different on the Handle. I think the HH and the Handle are both great ideas I just can't get around this obstacle. At least when I cheat close a gripper with two hands and then use one I know exactly where I'm at and there's no cheating, then again I still can't completely cheat close my #4 so there are flaws with this method as well. The gripper is set at a height that is right for you. Kinney described how to figure the correct height. Bodyweight I feel is not a factor. I use the bodyweight initially to help push the gripper closed. Once closed you can ease off the bodyweight push and crush the negative without the initial bodyweight push. It took me a few dozen or so attempts to get the feel where I can sense that that the bodyweight can be released from the negative. I still perform my freehanded forced closures as well. The handle is used as an addendum to the normal freehand forced closures. My findings so far using the handle is to grip the free handle all the way to the top where the bottom of the gripper handle will be lower set in the palm closer to the wrist. The end of the gripper handle will actually rest on the muscle pad that runs from your pinky along the outside of the palm. If you set the gripper handle in the normal palm position, tremendous pressure is pinpointed in the unpadded area of the palm. I find this to be uncomfortable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 I understand how you can ease your bodyweight off but what about the tricep and front delt? The slightest assistance from these can make a big difference. Especially when none of that assitance will transfer to your goal gripper. That's the problem I run into with the HH. After the initial bodyweight pushdown I try to be as strict as I can but as I said the slightest amount of tricep or delt really makes a difference. This has just been my experience with my HH, maybe the handle you're describing is easier to isolate with. I guess I'll just have to make one and find out. Thanks again for all the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Browne Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 I understand how you can ease your bodyweight off but what about the tricep and front delt? The slightest assistance from these can make a big difference. Especially when none of that assitance will transfer to your goal gripper. That's the problem I run into with the HH. After the initial bodyweight pushdown I try to be as strict as I can but as I said the slightest amount of tricep or delt really makes a difference. This has just been my experience with my HH, maybe the handle you're describing is easier to isolate with. I guess I'll just have to make one and find out. Thanks again for all the info. When I finally decided that Kinney might just have something useful with the extended handle and made a few to use (purely trial and error) the question I wanted an answer to was; will this device produce a good hard negative and make the hand work hard? In my opinion it does. Any colateral body mechanics used to get the gripper in position is not relevent to me.. My hands are worked to the extreme and that is what I wanted. The extreme force and tension the hand is under will of course transfer this tension up the arm into the shoulder, etc. This can not be avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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