I really need your advice on this!

[AdriaanRobert96]

So to make this easy to understand, I am literally losing my damn mind over this..

Been at it for over 1 year now, wide set closed the #3.5 and was about 1mm off closing it with a CCS.

About 3 months ago I finished a slight cut and lost 8kg/ 17.8lbs, at the end of that cut I also started a gripper deload that lasted for 1 month or so..

I thought ”alright let’s be patient, hence the weight cut” ..

One month passes, two months and now onto the 3rd month and I not only got weaker but I just can’t seem to bounce back.

Went from being able to close a heavy #3 for 3 and a average #3 for 5 both in the same workout while being able to close the #3.5 on a weekly basis.. went from all this to barely closing the #3.

I do have patience, I’ve been patient for 3 months and I’ve took things like the cut into consideration, and that I need a deload but nothing seem to work.

It’s not that I am not progressing, I ain’t even close to what I used to do 3 months ago, and it honestly starts to be super frustrating

Other things that I have tracked that are off besides my small weightloss is that my sleep’s been superbad the past month or two.. other than the weightloss and sleep nothings changed:/

Please share your thoughts, I am soon about to loose my damn sanity

[climber511]

I've been lifting for something like 64 years now - and my experience is that there will be ebbs and flows with all physical attributes over time - but the biggest for me has been the loss of strength with any weight loss - or more importantly size loss.  My theory is that size loss changes the angle of insertion across the affected joint - in effect changing the Lever angle/length or whatever you might call it - even if the muscle actually isn't weaker - there is a decreased mechanical advantage in operation.  This is my completely uneducated or non science based explanation.  

Strength development is in no way linear - and what you are experiencing is not at all unusual.  If you can find a copy - read 74 Consumate Arts of the Shaolin Temple and pay attention to the time frames they mention

[Fist of Fury]

You lose water when you lose weight that's extremely bad for gripper strength. It can actually be beneficial for something like thick bar sometimes because if your hand gets leaner you get a better wrap around the handle but for stuff like grippers it's really a disaster.

You can of course re-gain strength again but it will take time...

The simple truth is, if you lose body weight you will lose strength it's that simple.

[EmilBB]

I was at the same level of strength for 8-9 months, however the last 2 months I've finally progressed again. The most important thing for me, was knowing I need 1 week of rest between sessions. I also just started a program recently (C8myotome's), it has me doing more work with grippers than I ever have and I think that was another problem, I was not training hard enough. I don't know if programming is what's holding you back but I think trying different programs early on is a good thing, you need to find what works for you and what doesn't.

[AdriaanRobert96]

2 hours ago, climber511 said:

I've been lifting for something like 64 years now - and my experience is that there will be ebbs and flows with all physical attributes over time - but the biggest for me has been the loss of strength with any weight loss - or more importantly size loss.  My theory is that size loss changes the angle of insertion across the affected joint - in effect changing the Lever angle/length or whatever you might call it - even if the muscle actually isn't weaker - there is a decreased mechanical advantage in operation.  This is my completely uneducated or non science based explanation.  

Strength development is in no way linear - and what you are experiencing is not at all unusual.  If you can find a copy - read 74 Consumate Arts of the Shaolin Temple and pay attention to the time frames they mention

Oh you’re absolutely right there mate, but damn it I just lost a measly 8kg over a span of 16 weeks so nothing insane

[Apneaa]

Possibility is that you gained enough strength tp peak to hit that performance but you cant maintain the strength, and now youre straining to maintain that level, dealing with accumulated wear on your cns/tendons/muscles, whats for sure is that over time you will regain that level as you will eventually adapt to the new load.

Weight loss can mean a lot of things, possibly a lower protein intake, a lower micro count so less zinc-magnesium-potassium making efforts harder to manage for the CNS, not even talking about carb intake and simply having lower energy levels.

 

[Fist of Fury]

21 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Oh you’re absolutely right there mate, but damn it I just lost a measly 8kg over a span of 16 weeks so nothing insane

8 kg can be a lot, it depends on how and why you lost it.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Fist of Fury

[AdriaanRobert96]

2 hours ago, Fist of Fury said:

You lose water when you lose weight that's extremely bad for gripper strength. It can actually be beneficial for something like thick bar sometimes because if your hand gets leaner you get a better wrap around the handle but for stuff like grippers it's really a disaster.

You can of course re-gain strength again but it will take time...

The simple truth is, if you lose body weight you will lose strength it's that simple.

I guess I’ll just have to stick to it and build that strength up within my new weight

[AdriaanRobert96]

1 hour ago, EmilBB said:

I was at the same level of strength for 8-9 months, however the last 2 months I've finally progressed again. The most important thing for me, was knowing I need 1 week of rest between sessions. I also just started a program recently (C8myotome's), it has me doing more work with grippers than I ever have and I think that was another problem, I was not training hard enough. I don't know if programming is what's holding you back but I think trying different programs early on is a good thing, you need to find what works for you and what doesn't.

Thanks for the feedback pal, I’ll have to stick to it and see what works to help me progress at my new weight I guess

[AdriaanRobert96]

30 minutes ago, Apneaa said:

Possibility is that you gained enough strength tp peak to hit that performance but you cant maintain the strength, and now youre straining to maintain that level, dealing with accumulated wear on your cns/tendons/muscles, whats for sure is that over time you will regain that level as you will eventually adapt to the new load.

Weight loss can mean a lot of things, possibly a lower protein intake, a lower micro count so less zinc-magnesium-potassium making efforts harder to manage for the CNS, not even talking about carb intake and simply having lower energy levels.

 

Yeah seems like we speaking the same ”language” here

I’ve been at maintenance of my new weight for probably 2-3 months now and I am just maintaining atm.

Protein intake is exactly the same, I feel like I am eating enough etc etc.. might just be that my body needs momths to recover that strength

[AdriaanRobert96]

14 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

8 kg can be a lot, it depends on how and why you lost it.

Indeed, I just lost it to be a little lighter tbh and it was a decent cut with a 500 calorie deficit..

[mcalpine1986]

How many calories are you now eating per day? 

[AdriaanRobert96]

43 minutes ago, mcalpine1986 said:

How many calories are you now eating per day? 

Currently at maintenance after my cut, so at 3000

[mcalpine1986]

14 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Currently at maintenance after my cut, so at 3000

Maybe try upping the cals a smidge, maybe a 500 cal deficit was too much when you were cutting and affected your hormones.

Coincidentally that's also my maintenance, 3000.

How much do you weigh? Have you lost any hand thickness since the weight loss? 

Edited September 18, 2023 by mcalpine1986

[AdriaanRobert96]

49 minutes ago, mcalpine1986 said:

Maybe try upping the cals a smidge, maybe a 500 cal deficit was too much when you were cutting and affected your hormones.

Coincidentally that's also my maintenance, 3000.

How much do you weigh? Have you lost any hand thickness since the weight loss? 

Been out of my cut for about 3 months now I believe and build myself up to maintenance of 3000, just trying to maintain my weight of 95kg/ 209lbs.

Haha, yeah you tooWhat’ your weight atm if you don’t mind me asking?

I mean honestly my hands look the same in both size and thickness but I’ll measure them later today to see if anything’s changed

[mcalpine1986]

47 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Been out of my cut for about 3 months now I believe and build myself up to maintenance of 3000, just trying to maintain my weight of 95kg/ 209lbs.

Haha, yeah you tooWhat’ your weight atm if you don’t mind me asking?

I mean honestly my hands look the same in both size and thickness but I’ll measure them later today to see if anything’s changed

I only weigh 165lbs/75kg, currently maintenance on 3k. I've just cut 15lbs as I was 180lbs 3 months ago. I started on 3500 per day as I like very small deficit cuts.

Started cutting on 3300 and slowly lowered 100cals per week and levelled off on 2700 with higher days mixed in and a few lower. I personally think it's better hormonally to start cuts in a very small deficit and slowly lower so you body adjusted and doesn't lose strength. At least that's how I've always done and it it works for me.

As we all know Hand thickness helps with grippers so any to thickness could affect top end gripper strength. It could be a combo of things though. Bodyweight does help with grippers, if you look at people who are the best with grippers, the vast majority are heavier guys. 

[lder]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:18 PM, Fist of Fury said:

You lose water when you lose weight that's extremely bad for gripper strength. It can actually be beneficial for something like thick bar sometimes because if your hand gets leaner you get a better wrap around the handle but for stuff like grippers it's really a disaster.

You can of course re-gain strength again but it will take time...

The simple truth is, if you lose body weight you will lose strength it's that simple.

This is spot on, no real way of getting around it. 

However, some of it depends on your actual bodyweight.  I have done three weight cuts for grip competitions 225-198lbs, 228-198lbs, 216-204lbs.  Every time my strength went up, but technique had to change to accommodate the weight change.  Not only does the quoted finger/hand thickness impact your ability but a smaller wrist, lower arm and upper arm circumference decrease stability and negatively impact gripper closes.  However, if you are still upwards of 250lb bodyweight it shouldn't make much difference losing what you did.  

On the sleep comment.  I train competitive golfers and use a hand dynamometer to assess overtraining.  It is acceptable to have an inequal level of strength between a golfer's lead and trail hand.  However, if the trail side hand is more than 8% weaker than the lead hand the athletes training, tournament prep and lifestyle choices change to focus on recovery and balance vs. performance.  

You have changed three variables: recovery(sleep), body weight and training(deload) all around the same time.  This decrease in performance should be expected.  

[Carl Myerscough]

To lose 8kg and just to try and match the same strength levels is an achievement. To get stronger than you were before at the lighter weight will take time and be difficult but not impossible. I was stuck pretty much at the same level on grippers for 2.5 years trying various training methods and then found a better training plan and made progress. 

[AdriaanRobert96]

1 hour ago, mcalpine1986 said:

I only weigh 165lbs/75kg, currently maintenance on 3k. I've just cut 15lbs as I was 180lbs 3 months ago. I started on 3500 per day as I like very small deficit cuts.

Started cutting on 3300 and slowly lowered 100cals per week and levelled off on 2700 with higher days mixed in and a few lower. I personally think it's better hormonally to start cuts in a very small deficit and slowly lower so you body adjusted and doesn't lose strength. At least that's how I've always done and it it works for me.

As we all know Hand thickness helps with grippers so any to thickness could affect top end gripper strength. It could be a combo of things though. Bodyweight does help with grippers, if you look at people who are the best with grippers, the vast majority are heavier guys. 

Very true, especially about being heavier.

I will just let my body adapt to my new weight for a couple of more months and go from there, I do have a lot of patience but really get’s to me this time around

[AdriaanRobert96]

47 minutes ago, lder said:

This is spot on, no real way of getting around it. 

However, some of it depends on your actual bodyweight.  I have done three weight cuts for grip competitions 225-198lbs, 228-198lbs, 216-204lbs.  Every time my strength went up, but technique had to change to accommodate the weight change.  Not only does the quoted finger/hand thickness impact your ability but a smaller wrist, lower arm and upper arm circumference decrease stability and negatively impact gripper closes.  However, if you are still upwards of 250lb bodyweight it shouldn't make much difference losing what you did.  

On the sleep comment.  I train competitive golfers and use a hand dynamometer to assess overtraining.  It is acceptable to have an inequal level of strength between a golfer's lead and trail hand.  However, if the trail side hand is more than 8% weaker than the lead hand the athletes training, tournament prep and lifestyle choices change to focus on recovery and balance vs. performance.  

You have changed three variables: recovery(sleep), body weight and training(deload) all around the same time.  This decrease in performance should be expected.  

Really appreciate you going this in depth, learning a ton here thank you

Maybe I should get a dynamometer to keep track of my recovery, how would I go about it?

Edited September 18, 2023 by AdriaanRobert96

[AdriaanRobert96]

35 minutes ago, Carl Myerscough said:

To lose 8kg and just to try and match the same strength levels is an achievement. To get stronger than you were before at the lighter weight will take time and be difficult but not impossible. I was stuck pretty much at the same level on grippers for 2.5 years trying various training methods and then found a better training plan and made progress. 

Alright well this gives me even more motivation to keep going tbh, thank you king

[lder]

47 minutes ago, AdriaanRobert96 said:

Really appreciate you going this in depth, learning a ton here thank you

Maybe I should get a dynamometer to keep track of my recovery, how would I go about it?I

Carl gave great advice.  Things take time and you kind of have to figure out what works for you.  Patience.

A dynamometer is not needed.  Use a silver bullet style hold to track recovery, just use the end of one of your other grippers, no weight needed.  Look to set and hold for 5 seconds, no longer or shorter with your heaviest gripper.  Track how strong/easy it feels each time and go from there.  Get a new baseline of where you are now and work forward.  

Also, as an off the wall experiment, if you have them, put on three or so long sleeve shirts or a couple long sleeve shirts and a coat or sweatshirt.  Aside from the extra heat, and even with the loose fit, the increased circumference of the arm itself will stabilize the wrist, elbow and shoulder and should result in stronger closes. A larger diameter appendage is more stable and resists rotation much better than something smaller.  Strange, but should work.  

Edited September 18, 2023 by lder

[AdriaanRobert96]

4 hours ago, lder said:

Carl gave great advice.  Things take time and you kind of have to figure out what works for you.  Patience.

A dynamometer is not needed.  Use a silver bullet style hold to track recovery, just use the end of one of your other grippers, no weight needed.  Look to set and hold for 5 seconds, no longer or shorter with your heaviest gripper.  Track how strong/easy it feels each time and go from there.  Get a new baseline of where you are now and work forward.  

Also, as an off the wall experiment, if you have them, put on three or so long sleeve shirts or a couple long sleeve shirts and a coat or sweatshirt.  Aside from the extra heat, and even with the loose fit, the increased circumference of the arm itself will stabilize the wrist, elbow and shoulder and should result in stronger closes. A larger diameter appendage is more stable and resists rotation much better than something smaller.  Strange, but should work.  

Super useful, thank you good sir