What percentage is strength and what percentage is technique when closing grippers?!

[Stephen Anderson]

Havent posted in awhile! Just figured i would start a discussion and see what everyone’s opinions are! 

[liftyzig]

You can have all the technique in the world but if you don't have the strength to close it, it will never close, while the opposite is not necessarily true.

[insane.warrior]

Glad to see you Stephen 

I think the difference could be in range of 0-20 RGC pounds depending on how bad is technique.

Edited August 3, 2023 by insane.warrior

[EmilBB]

If we're talking about complete new guys then I would say it's 95% technique, because you can place a gripper in such position where you can't close it no matter the strength. Which is how a lot of new guys would place the gripper.

If we're talking people with more experience, then it's probably more strength than technique, I would say 80% strength, 20% technique. Personally if the gripper gets out of my groove, then I can't even close grippers that I usually close for 6-8 reps. However I still consider myself a novice, I've only been training grip for a little over a year.

 

[liftyzig]

I would put it at 50/50.  I've gotten technique training from Jedd that helped me utilize the strength that I already had, and then gotten advanced technique help from him that I needed to increase my strength to utilize.  In order to reach your peak potential you have to have both.

[climber511]

156# with a block set.  195# in a choker at parallel - whatever percentage that comes out to.  Something like .8 ?  I have horrible technique and no set to speak of.  Your mileage may vary

[Douglas Carney]

Watched an episode of The Grip Show last night and then made the ill-advised decision to follow wherever the YouTube algorithm took me for a couple hours afterward.

Around 2AM (20 hours after waking up for work  ) I may have landed on a way to test the strength vs technique question...

Larry Wheels posted a "Bodybuilder vs Grip Challenge" video yesterday and the guys were clearly completely new to grippers.  No surprise that a sloppy (practically Table No Set) attempt of a CoC #1 didn't go as well as these guys expected.  (But it did go slightly better than the day Jujimufu took grippers to a suburban shopping mall.  )

Anyway, the twist was Larry also brought a Baseline digital hand dynamometer with him for comparison purposes.  So the same guys that couldn't close a CoC #1 (average RGC 77 according to @Cannon's Ratings Data) suddenly shot up to 83kg (182lb) results.

I know it's a bit apples and oranges but it supports the general theory that technique is a significant component of gripper success.  (And also points out that these guys could really benefit from @Jedd Johnson's Crush training DVD.  )

So I'd be curious if any experienced gripsters with access to a hand dynamometer can do their own comparison and report the results.  Just a thought.

[Vinnie]

On 8/3/2023 at 4:54 PM, climber511 said:

156# with a block set.  195# in a choker at parallel - whatever percentage that comes out to.  Something like .8 ?  I have horrible technique and no set to speak of.  Your mileage may vary

165# for a double with a choker (haven't tried more), 165# MMS, 165# with a block set (on a gripper I thought was rated a little higher than it actually is, so maybe was more like 160 -- my best block set was 156# after that), 153# CCS, and 140# TNS.  I think this suggests that -- probably due to Chez's longtime advice that I eventually acted on -- I've gotten decent at setting.  Looks like my technique gets me almost to what the choker gets me.  Not sure how one should assign percentages in that regard.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Vinnie

[Vinnie]

2 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

I've gotten decent at setting.

Another indicator of this is that I used to have trouble getting a silver bullet hold on a COC 3.5, and now I can get a hold on most COC 4s I've tried (not for long unless it is a really light 4, but I think the setting is why I can now get a hold on one at all).

[Vinnie]

28 minutes ago, Douglas Carney said:

So I'd be curious if any experienced gripsters with access to a hand dynamometer can do their own comparison and report the results

I'm pretty sure the dyno will usually give you a reading much higher than the RGC gripper you could close (even choked).  My best dyno reading was 242 on a Baseline, which I think was on a great day for me and that I have a good dyno technique lol.  Because my best RGC gripper is 165, and choked it wouldn't be much higher, maybe 170-175 because I got a double on 165.  My usual dyno is low 200s -- I'd say about 210, plus or minus 10 on any given day.  I will never close a 200 gripper.  And we don't need to do the never say never thread again here lol.  

[Vinnie]

On 8/3/2023 at 4:38 PM, liftyzig said:

You can have all the technique in the world but if you don't have the strength to close it, it will never close, while the opposite is not necessarily true.

Another way to put this is that technique is a multiplier of whatever strength you have.  I don't mean a whole number multiplier, just 1.something, but it will raise whatever your strength can close by some percentage.  But if your best close with bad technique is 50, there is no way good technique will get you to 150.  Might get you 75 or 80 though.

[Douglas Carney]

45 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

Another way to put this is that technique is a multiplier of whatever strength you have.  I don't mean a whole number multiplier, just 1.something, but it will raise whatever your strength can close by some percentage.  But if your best close with bad technique is 50, there is no way good technique will get you to 150.  Might get you 75 or 80 though.

Makes sense to me, Vinnie.  Appreciate you sharing your experience and perspective.

[slazbob]

I think with all these numbers you can calculate that grippers, although I love them, are a very small indicator of true hand strength. Technique with grippers starts with anchoring the palm handle so it doesn’t move…then from there it’s up to you which depth you set to close. Obviously the shorter the stroke the easier it is, but doesn’t mean you’ll close it, if you’re not strong enough. Technique takes you to a place where maybe you aren’t really familiar, but gives you confidence to work with. Strength still reigns supreme over technique, because I’m not sure anyone who can close a no.2 couldn’t close a coc guide gripper with any set they’d like. 

[Hubgeezer]

Excellent question, and the varied responses are even better.

All kinds of good stuff in there, and the specific details provided by many also helped.

Although “hand size” matters when it comes to the ability to close grippers using a wide set, I think everything posted here is solid regardless of hand size.

Thanks everyone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vinnie]

20 hours ago, slazbob said:

I think with all these numbers you can calculate that grippers, although I love them, are a very small indicator of true hand strength. Technique with grippers starts with anchoring the palm handle so it doesn’t move…then from there it’s up to you which depth you set to close. Obviously the shorter the stroke the easier it is, but doesn’t mean you’ll close it, if you’re not strong enough. Technique takes you to a place where maybe you aren’t really familiar, but gives you confidence to work with. Strength still reigns supreme over technique, because I’m not sure anyone who can close a no.2 couldn’t close a coc guide gripper with any set they’d like. 

Yes.  Also, when people at work (the DA's office) try my grippers and a big guy can't close a trainer, I can tell that he COULD close it if he held it right and did a little set, but he is just holding it way up the handle in a bad position and has no leverage on it.  And probably I could close it that way if I wanted but it would feel like a 1 or a 2 because of the lack of mechanical advantage.  Plainly getting the handles to touch on any given difficulty of gripper is a function of strength AND technique.

[slazbob]

1 hour ago, Vinnie said:

Yes.  Also, when people at work (the DA's office) try my grippers and a big guy can't close a trainer, I can tell that he COULD close it if he held it right and did a little set, but he is just holding it way up the handle in a bad position and has no leverage on it.  And probably I could close it that way if I wanted but it would feel like a 1 or a 2 because of the lack of mechanical advantage.  Plainly getting the handles to touch on any given difficulty of gripper is a function of strength AND technique.

I’ve had many people try my grippers over the years, and it’s strange how technically off they are …I mean, you wouldn’t hold a pair of pliers like that! Haha it’s my belief the nutcracker style baffles people; they want to bring their pinky to the handle instead of bringing the handle to the pinky. It’s the little things that count. 

[Carl Myerscough]

I would say you can get about 30rgc out of mastering your individual technique, but once that is done it all goes back to requiring getting stronger. Probably took me about 2 years to master the technique. 

[devinhoo]

Anecdotally: my technique is terrible, always has been... but I have reasonably strong hands. I have done SB with a CoC4 with a braced set, but my best MMS is a GG5. I have a choker 135 Standard Iron on the way and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to rep it from 20mm, but honestly might not be able to get it from a MMS since I only just started training grippers again after a few years off.

I think being strong can make up for a certain amount of technique, and having great technique can help reveal how strong you are, but you definitely need both in order to go far.

[dubyagrip]

Wait?  There's a technique?

/sarcasm

What I notice more than anything is folks not being able to securely anchor the gripper in place against the thumb.  I think a large part of my success is the freakiness of my thumb size.  I watch a lot of gripper closes, and it seems like we all do it a little differently, so I like what Carl has said about mastering our individual techniques.  This is very insightful.

[steeve tremblay]

On 05/08/2023 at 10:56, Douglas Carney said:

J'ai regardé un épisode de The Grip Show hier soir, puis j'ai pris la décision peu judicieuse de suivre là où l'algorithme YouTube m'a emmené pendant quelques heures après.

Vers 2 heures du matin (20 heures après mon réveil pour le travail  ), j'ai peut-être atterri sur un moyen de tester la question force vs technique...

Larry Wheels a publié hier une vidéo " Bodybuilder vs Grip Challenge " et les gars étaient clairement complètement nouveaux dans les préhenseurs. Il n'est pas surprenant qu'une tentative bâclée (pratiquement Table No Set) d'un CoC #1 ne se soit pas déroulée aussi bien que prévu. (Mais cela s'est passé un peu mieux que le jour où Jujimufu a emmené les pinces dans un centre commercial de banlieue .  )

Quoi qu’il en soit, Larry avait également apporté avec lui un dynamomètre numérique à main Baseline à des fins de comparaison. Donc les mêmes gars qui n'ont pas pu fermer un CoC #1 (RGC 77 en moyenne selon@Canon's Ratings Data ) a soudainement grimpé jusqu'à 83 kg (182 lb).

Je sais que c'est un peu des pommes et des oranges, mais cela conforte la théorie générale selon laquelle la technique est un élément important du succès des préhenseurs. (Et souligne également que ces gars pourraient vraiment bénéficier de@Jedd JohnsonDVD de formation Crush .  )

Je serais donc curieux de savoir si des gripsters expérimentés ayant accès à un dynamomètre manuel peuvent faire leur propre comparaison et rapporter les résultats. Juste une pensée.

I read that a person closing a coc 2 has a dynamometry force of 155 pounds;; coc2.5 170-175 pounds.. coc 3 180 -200 pounds dynamometer force; coc 3.5;220 pounds.
coc 4,240 pounds and more. It looks like this according to my research

[kurtwpg]

30% technique. Someone with perfect technique could barely close a #2.5 when someone of equal strength and horrible technique would barely miss a #2.

[Jared P]

I'd say it's about 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name.

[weightlifter]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:28 PM, Vinnie said:

I'm pretty sure the dyno will usually give you a reading much higher than the RGC gripper you could close (even choked).  My best dyno reading was 242 on a Baseline, which I think was on a great day for me and that I have a good dyno technique lol.  Because my best RGC gripper is 165, and choked it wouldn't be much higher, maybe 170-175 because I got a double on 165.  My usual dyno is low 200s -- I'd say about 210, plus or minus 10 on any given day.  I will never close a 200 gripper.  And we don't need to do the never say never thread again here lol.  

There is a formula to calculate what rgc gripper you can close, having certain dynamometry. 

Dyna = Gripper RGC TNS x 1.5

I will give an example in kg.

Having 60 kg dynamometry, you can close CoC#1.5 TNS ~ 40 kg rgc. 

Having 100 kg dynamometry, you can close CoC#3 TNS ~ 67 kg  rgc.

Closing grippers by blocks or DS require less dynamometry.

 

Edited March 8 by weightlifter

[TrenGrip]

I feel like i have very little gripper technique, i only somewhat recently learned how to set a gripper, and im still not very good at it. I still cant even use my thumb to help close 

Edited March 16 by TrenGrip