Ideal Grip Contest

[Eric Roussin]

I’m interested in hearing people’s thoughts on the various elements that would make up their ideal grip contest (single venue). Things like the contest format, the number of events, the types of events included, the scoring methodology, the day/time of the contest, the classes and divisions, the type of venue, the prizes/awards, the number of lifting platforms, warm-up opportunities, time between lifts, etc. — anything you’d like to comment on. But I’m asking people to comment from a competitor’s perspective, rather than a spectator’s perspective (the two can be quite different).

So… who’d like to get the ball rolling?

[stranger]

Rising bar with a 1 minute limit. 4 attempts is cool but rising bar lowers the chance that someone bombs out in a lift. 

Knock bar , no lockout. Knock bar is more subjective and easier to judge. Fast down commands for lockouts are becoming way to common. 

4 events that vary from 1 to 2 hand lifts. The events should be: pinch, thick bar, vert pull (LBH, hilt, jug etc) and 1 misc ( hub, Finnishball, chain etc)

Percentage based scoring because it rewards great performances.

Saturday or Sundays around noonish

Venue should be a gym or somewhere with equipment for the athletes to warm up on (squat rack, bench, treadmill, rowers etc) 

3-5 minutes between lifts max but the competitor can go fast if they want. 

One lifting platform. Everyone warms up with and competes with the same implements.  If there's a ton of lifters do more than 1 flight. 

Weight classes: 80, 90, 100, 110, 120 and 120+. And if there's 2 or less people in a class they move up to the next one. 

 Prizes: medals, belts and trophies are all fine. Bigger the Contest bigger the prize though. Also, gift cards from the companies equipment that's being used.

Every contest should have t shirts. 

 

I think that's all I got. 

[climber511]

Format- open competition with weight class scoring and prizes (if enough entries in each class).  All events “rising bar” where feasible.  Hand size should be considered where possible on main events (example might be no main event fat bar Axle over 2” etc)

Number of events – depending on the actual events either 4 or 5 but I favor 4.  Some events run much longer than others – overall contest time should be considered as should expected number of competitors.

Types of events – no Torsion Spring Grippers - big events like pinch (Euro takes a long time but adjustable width is fairer than fixed – especially if it’s a wider fixed width) and fat bar as standalone main events with all the nic nack stuff only in a medley setting – there should be a forearm/wrist test in there somewhere.  Obviously safer events only – example might be no “Tips Tester” as a rising bar event – might be fine in a Medley at a more moderate weight.  I do like Strangers idea on “knock bars”. 

Type of scoring – personally I like the strategy involved with only 4 attempts instead of lift till ya miss but there are advantages to both.  Percentage and Strongman scoring both have their plus and minuses.

Prizes/ Awards – Something small and maybe unique to the contest (have to get it home if you fly to the contest)

Number of platforms – depends on number of competitors but at least one warmup and one comp platform

Warm up opportunities – general gym stuff and event specific for overall warmup plus at least one warmup is necessary on the actual competition setup on any friction lift - all setups are different and no one wants to miss their opener.  Everyone competes on the exact same setups.

Time between lifts – depends if you’re doing say four singe attempts or AMAP in a minute.

No doubt I'll think of more as soon as I hit send

 

[Eric Roussin]

@climber511Any particular reason for “no torsion spring grippers”?

[climber511]

2 hours ago, Eric Roussin said:

@climber511Any particular reason for “no torsion spring grippers”?

I've expressed my dislike for them for years for multiple reasons.  I don't believe it is supposed to be a test of "Setting" as much as closing - when being good at grippers is as much a test of setting ability as actual crush strength - its a flawed event.  TSGs have many problems - judging a gripper close that is shaking all over is difficult - having enough spread of strengths is not always possible.  I know I'm a voice of one in the wilderness but the only gripper test that actually tests "strength" is choked to parallel.  I realize they are extremely popular but for me - they are not a good event for competitions - certs only.

[Cannon]

3 hours ago, Eric Roussin said:

@climber511Any particular reason for “no torsion spring grippers”?

I'm the opposite. I want the TSG event 100%. 

[IROC-Z]

I'm old school and love the format from grip contests 10+ years back.  It seemed like almost every contest back then had some type of gripper event, a 2HP event, an axle or rolling handle event, some type of wrist strength event, and a medley.  I miss those style of contests. 

[DevilErik]

I like the idea of the "big three" as a test of overall grip strength just like the squat, bench and deadlift are a test of full body strength in powerlifting.

It would be 20mm block set grippers(choked?), 2HP and 50mm axle.

I remember Jedd talking about these lifts being the "big three" in grip in one of his videos.

Also maybe hand size classes instead of weight classes?

Maybe a grip total just like a powerlifting total?

I can't really comment on the rest because I don't compete in gripsport however, I did try to comment from a competitior's perspective.

Edited January 8, 2023 by DevilErik

[Eric Roussin]

1 hour ago, climber511 said:

I've expressed my dislike for them for years for multiple reasons.  I don't believe it is supposed to be a test of "Setting" as much as closing - when being good at grippers is as much a test of setting ability as actual crush strength - its a flawed event.  TSGs have many problems - judging a gripper close that is shaking all over is difficult - having enough spread of strengths is not always possible.  I know I'm a voice of one in the wilderness but the only gripper test that actually tests "strength" is choked to parallel.  I realize they are extremely popular but for me - they are not a good event for competitions - certs only.

Thanks! What are your thoughts on using a dynamometer in a contest?

[climber511]

39 minutes ago, Eric Roussin said:

Thanks! What are your thoughts on using a dynamometer in a contest?

I've never been in a contest with a Dyno.  Richard Sorin brought several of them to a contest Jedd held one year and we all tried them - I think it might have been the first contest I ever went to?  I've tried them at the Arnold also.  I think if they had an adjustable size (so big and smaller hands could get their own "sweet spot") they might be OK?  Certainly would be a quick event anyway even with multiple attempts.  No idea how people would view it in a comp?  I had choked grippers I think 3 years at Gripmas and Ivanko Super Gripper twice trying to get away from TSGs and the "set" issue - they went over fairly well but I think most people were "into" regular grippers - I just never was.  They don't seem to have any carry over to other aspects of grip or life - I just never had much use for them.

[climber511]

1 hour ago, Cannon said:

I'm the opposite. I want the TSG event 100%. 

I think the vast majority of people feel this way - I've always been the odd man out in this.  My best block set was 156# - my best choked to parallel was 191.8# in a comp and an easy #4 of Heath's at 195# in training.  Quite a difference between my skill and my strength.

[Eric Roussin]

29 minutes ago, climber511 said:

I've never been in a contest with a Dyno.  Richard Sorin brought several of them to a contest Jedd held one year and we all tried them - I think it might have been the first contest I ever went to?  I've tried them at the Arnold also.  I think if they had an adjustable size (so big and smaller hands could get their own "sweet spot") they might be OK?  Certainly would be a quick event anyway even with multiple attempts.  No idea how people would view it in a comp?  I had choked grippers I think 3 years at Gripmas and Ivanko Super Gripper twice trying to get away from TSGs and the "set" issue - they went over fairly well but I think most people were "into" regular grippers - I just never was.  They don't seem to have any carry over to other aspects of grip or life - I just never had much use for them.

I’ve included a Dyno in several of my contests. Quick and easy way to measure crushing strength. Everyone seemed to like it.

[climber511]

Some Grip Contest thoughts

·        Grippers if held seem best before any/all other events.

·        Next event should be Pinch.  David Horne Euro Pinch would be my choice – first because pinch doesn’t seem to affect Fat Bar nearly as much as Fat Bar does pinch.  All widths contested – I know it takes forever but my thinking says it’s the fairest way to do it.  The other popular pinch is the Saxon Bar normally at 3” x 4” – it’s my two cents that is too big for fairness to average size hands.  If a Saxon Bar is substituted for the Euro I think a 2” x 6” size would be better.  It’s a common steel size and would be easy enough to make up and no doubt a much faster event than the Euro.  I could get behind that size Saxon Bar as a main pinch event.

·        Fat bar after pinch – the Standard has always been the IM Axle and I’m OK with that.  Armlifting has now gone to a 1.9” size – I’m OK with that as well (should be bare steel I think).

·        Rolling Handle has always been the IM Rolling Thunder – I believe that is too big and favors large hands too much – Armlifting is going to a 1.75” Country Crush handle.   Haven’t tried it yet but I think it might make the event a lot better for more average sized hands.  The hand size issue is always going to be there with nothing I can think of to “fix” it.  2” seems to be about as large as we can go before hand size advantage becomes too great.

·        My all-time favorite event is always the Medley – the bigger the better.  It can have all the little odd ball items in it as well as many of the “feats” like Blobs – key pinch – balls – stubs - plate pinches – scale weights – Slim Style sledge hammers – oversize Fat Bars – odd ball implements - and on and on.  This is where I think spectators really get to appreciate what strengths they are seeing.  Many of these lifts can be done in a regular gym or garage setting and the average Joe often can’t appreciate the things they see on the main stage at the Arnold by 400# Strongmen.  Should always be the last event I think.  A time limit keeps it quick enough.

·        Wrist or forearm events are tough.  Weaver Stick to either front or rear is about it historically – it’s a tough event to do in a comp – I held it once to the front and once to the rear.  No injuries but a lot of sore wrists - the only event I allowed wrist wraps - everyone had to use the same warp.  The wrist curl with bar on blocks on a base (not sure on name) is dangerous as heck.  Coin loading lifts are another alternative - either allow or disallow the Luke Raymond style for fairness.

·        The “Vertical Bar” type events proved very dangerous in the beginning when they were 1” or 25mm diameter lots of biceps and skin tears.  The 1.9” or 50mm size seems much safer but still there’s been a few biceps blown.  I personally don’t like the “tapered” shapes but see no real issues with them.  I think IMs Little Big Horn tapers too much but that’s just me – feels weird in my hand.

·        Anyway???

Edited January 9, 2023 by climber511

[Blacksmith513]

10 hours ago, climber511 said:

Some Grip Contest thoughts

·        Grippers if held seem best before any/all other events.

·        Next event should be Pinch.  David Horne Euro Pinch would be my choice – first because pinch doesn’t seem to affect Fat Bar nearly as much as Fat Bar does pinch.  All widths contested – I know it takes forever but my thinking says it’s the fairest way to do it.  The other popular pinch is the Saxon Bar normally at 3” x 4” – it’s my two cents that is too big for fairness to average size hands.  If a Saxon Bar is substituted for the Euro I think a 2” x 6” size would be better.  It’s a common steel size and would be easy enough to make up and no doubt a much faster event than the Euro.  I could get behind that size Saxon Bar as a main pinch event.

·        Fat bar after pinch – the Standard has always been the IM Axle and I’m OK with that.  Armlifting has now gone to a 1.9” size – I’m OK with that as well (should be bare steel I think).

·        Rolling Handle has always been the IM Rolling Thunder – I believe that is too big and favors large hands too much – Armlifting is going to a 1.75” Country Crush handle.   Haven’t tried it yet but I think it might make the event a lot better for more average sized hands.  The hand size issue is always going to be there with nothing I can think of to “fix” it.  2” seems to be about as large as we can go before hand size advantage becomes too great.

·        My all-time favorite event is always the Medley – the bigger the better.  It can have all the little odd ball items in it as well as many of the “feats” like Blobs – key pinch – balls – stubs - plate pinches – scale weights – Slim Style sledge hammers – oversize Fat Bars – odd ball implements - and on and on.  This is where I think spectators really get to appreciate what strengths they are seeing.  Many of these lifts can be done in a regular gym or garage setting and the average Joe often can’t appreciate the things they see on the main stage at the Arnold by 400# Strongmen.  Should always be the last event I think.  A time limit keeps it quick enough.

·        Wrist or forearm events are tough.  Weaver Stick to either front or rear is about it historically – it’s a tough event to do in a comp – I held it once to the front and once to the rear.  No injuries but a lot of sore wrists - the only event I allowed wrist wraps - everyone had to use the same warp.  The wrist curl with bar on blocks on a base (not sure on name) is dangerous as heck.  Coin loading lifts are another alternative - either allow or disallow the Luke Raymond style for fairness.

·        The “Vertical Bar” type events proved very dangerous in the beginning when they were 1” or 25mm diameter lots of biceps and skin tears.  The 1.9” or 50mm size seems much safer but still there’s been a few biceps blown.  I personally don’t like the “tapered” shapes but see no real issues with them.  I think IMs Little Big Horn tapers too much but that’s just me – feels weird in my hand.

·        Anyway???

I don't compete, but this is my ideal comp... Seems more old school. 

I don't care for grippers (still want to cert someday), but a rolling handle, euro pinch pinch, some sort of levering, anvil horn lift,  Napalm Nightmare w/ different handles and bending... I know the sport has evolved into grip and bending being separate entities but i'd like to see more bending incorporated. 

[DAVE101]

I enjoy "strongman" style comps rather than "powerlifting" 3 big lifts. Take emphasis away from pure limit strength/1RM. Throw in some timed events and medleys.

I'm not crazy about grippers, but the Silver Bullet was a huge move in the right direction - still strength emphasis, but mixing in some endurance. As a bonus it's very fast (single 60s attempt) and easy to judge. Jedd's wrist roller is pretty cool too, and again, only requires one attempt. Medleys are the obvious one here, although logistically complicated. Living Legends not only had two medleys, but also grippers, pinch, fat bar, vertical bar, and wrist events. Very well rounded comp (but two days). I like Jedd's scoring system for Medleys: carrying objects for distance. You don't have to get a full lift on an object to get it across the line for a few points. I personally like some BW oriented events, like max pull-ups on Rolling Thunders, but I don't imagine that's popular with every gripsport athlete.

Those less conventional events are a lot quicker, and athletes appreciate not standing around as much waiting for people to get all their attempts in. I venture to guess the medleys are some of the more remembered moments from a contest.

[JasonP]

The knockbar seems like a must for me!

I personnally don't like the grippers, I feel like you're either naturally good or bad at it.

I love revolving handle! Wrist wrench looks great for all hand sizes. The version with grip tape for more wrist strength!

I feel like some event might be easy to adjust with athlete's hand sizes, like the pinch blocs! maybe a 2 inch bloc for the 7 inch hands and 2.5 for the 8 inch hands etc. The thick bar events may be adjustable with multiple fat grip sizes too, but i understand the size gap between them is quite large.

The essential lifts for me would be: a thick bar event, a pinch event (or two including a key pinch or slim pinch bloc) and a rolling handle / wrist wrench!

A little something for all competitors like a tee of the specific comp would be great.

thanks!

[C8Myotome]

2 hours ago, JasonP said:

The knockbar seems like a must for me!

I personnally don't like the grippers, I feel like you're either naturally good or bad at it.

I love revolving handle! Wrist wrench looks great for all hand sizes. The version with grip tape for more wrist strength!

I feel like some event might be easy to adjust with athlete's hand sizes, like the pinch blocs! maybe a 2 inch bloc for the 7 inch hands and 2.5 for the 8 inch hands etc. The thick bar events may be adjustable with multiple fat grip sizes too, but i understand the size gap between them is quite large.

The essential lifts for me would be: a thick bar event, a pinch event (or two including a key pinch or slim pinch bloc) and a rolling handle / wrist wrench!

A little something for all competitors like a tee of the specific comp would be great.

thanks!

Grippers have to be trained just like anything else...it's very easy to be naturally bad at it unless you practice to get better. Also, setting is just something that comes along with it, and has to be trained as well. It's a lot easier to get better at that than it is to make up for small hand size on friction type lifts like saxon bar where you're only ever going to make so much contact on it.

I think it would be really interesting to see a crush grip machine used in an event. You could also set this to parallel or 38 mm using blocks so that no one has to set it. 

[DevilErik]

2 hours ago, JasonP said:

The knockbar seems like a must for me!

I personnally don't like the grippers, I feel like you're either naturally good or bad at it.

I love revolving handle! Wrist wrench looks great for all hand sizes. The version with grip tape for more wrist strength!

I feel like some event might be easy to adjust with athlete's hand sizes, like the pinch blocs! maybe a 2 inch bloc for the 7 inch hands and 2.5 for the 8 inch hands etc. The thick bar events may be adjustable with multiple fat grip sizes too, but i understand the size gap between them is quite large.

The essential lifts for me would be: a thick bar event, a pinch event (or two including a key pinch or slim pinch bloc) and a rolling handle / wrist wrench!

A little something for all competitors like a tee of the specific comp would be great.

thanks!

The Wrist Wrench isn't great for all hand sizes IMO, my hands are 22 cm long and my fingers are almost able to touch on a 60mm handle which is just stupid because it isn't thickbar anymore at that point.

Edited January 20, 2023 by DevilErik

[DevilErik]

Here, take a look this handle is 60mm which is the same size as a Wrist Wrench.

I purposely held it the same way as I would during a lift some people move their hand all the way up or down the handle so that their fingers are able to touch but I wanted to keep the photo as "real" as possible.

Edited January 20, 2023 by DevilErik

[JasonP]

@DevilErik Maybe! i'm not so experienced with that lift but I think that if the wrist wrench as grip tape, the thick grip factor is not that important because you grip is not a limiting factor anymore, it is your wrist strength. And the tension put on the wrist is determined by the moment arm of the diameter of the handle, not your hand wrapping around it! But for other rolling handle lift like the rolling thunder its definetly a game changer!

[DevilErik]

Just now, JasonP said:

@DevilErik Maybe! i'm not so experienced with that lift but I think that if the wrist wrench as grip tape, the thick grip factor is not that important because you grip is not a limiting factor anymore, it is your wrist strength. And the tension put on the wrist is determined by the moment arm of the diameter of the handle, not your hand wrapping around it! But for other rolling handle lift like the rolling thunder its definetly a game changer!

A wrist wrench with grip tape is for arm wrestling not grip sport.

[Vinnie]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:31 PM, climber511 said:

I think the vast majority of people feel this way - I've always been the odd man out in this.  My best block set was 156# - my best choked to parallel was 191.8# in a comp and an easy #4 of Heath's at 195# in training.  Quite a difference between my skill and my strength.

Interesting - my best block set is 156 also, but my best MMS (setting) is 165 and my best choked close is a double at 165 -- never tried more, but NO WAY I could do 190 like you did.  And on Dyno, I have hit 242, I think because you don't have to hold it long enough for a person to see it and I just get a good quick burst and then lose it, so on a choked gripper it'd either not close at all or be judged no close because too quick to see.

But grippers being my best event, I still would vote for them.

For pinch, and maybe this is hand size at work, I do MUCH better on 2 and 2.5 Saxon, and on Euro, than on 3-inch Saxon.  Also better on flask than on IM block.

Hand size classes might be interesting.  I don't have huge hands, so I'd probably be in a class where I am about the same competitive as I am in my weight class, so it may not matter to me personally.  I think Jedd recently took some stats in an effort to see some relationships between hand size, weight, and performance at one of his comps.

My ideal comp:

1) Grippers as first event.  I like doing some crush!  Can be SB, choked, block, TNS, Dyno, the grip machine someone mentioned above -- I don't care.  A crush event suits my personal taste and strengths, but also it is just naturally a part of grip sports I think.

2) Pinch second.  Also, not a huge deal to me WHICH pinch, other than that I agree with Chris's comment that 3-inch favors larger hands and a little smaller lets strength be more decisive.  I've pinched 20 per cent more on 2 and 2 and a half inch Saxons than on 3-inch.  That must be hand size.

3) Thick bar or rolling handle third; I prefer a one-hand lift for myself but axle or a two-hand rolling handle is fine.  Not my strength at all, but I think it is also objectively true as many have said above that it is better to have this after crush and pinch.  I concede that thick bar is a staple, and I do what I can with it, but I will offer the observation that of all the grip lifts, it is the one most dependent upon traditional powerlifting strength.  My axle max is the same as my Oly bar deadlift max -- because that is the most the rest of my body can move.  If I can lock it out at all, I can stand there with it for 10 seconds and whistle, because you just tested my body, not my grip.  That's not an objection - nothing wrong with strength beyond the arms being involved - just an observation.  I like the one-handed ones because my body can handle the weight better, so it is more likely to test my grip.  Or a two-hand rolling type lift, where you can lift from higher than a deadlift, takes some of the body out of the equation as well.

4) A jug, anvil, or V-bar type lift.  Also not my personal strength, but seems to be a staple as well and is a little different than all the above.  So I like the variety of it, even if it isn't my bailiwick.

5) A novelty lift like grab ball, finnish ball, moontop, inch pinch, coin lift, whatever - but really, whatever it is could just be yet another event in:

A MEDLEY to close it all out!

Jedd has had some cool medleys in recent years, but I think the medleys I have seen described at some of Eric's comps take the cake, with 40-ish items of all kinds, from simple to impossible, and a fair amount of time to do as many as possible of them.  I kind of like the idea of a medley that has a few things everyone can do and yet that no freak could get a perfect score on.  And with a wide variety of things, so that everyone will be like, "Oh I'm GREAT at THAT one" for something, and "Oh I've always wanted to try THAT one" for something, and "OMG who on earth can do THAT?" for something else and then someone there does it.

As for classes, I would like that the comp be sanctioned by GSI and if possible also arm lifting, and the scores entered in the weight and age classes (and hand size if they are added) for both.  But I'd be interested regardless of who sanctions it or even if not sanctioned.  I am not in this for glory.  I just get a kick out of it all, and I enjoy meeting such a wide variety of people who I would never be likely to meet in my narrow daily life.

Oh, prizes.  Well, it's nice to have something to vie for, and I have actually won my weight and/or age class on occasion, and have won a thing or two that I was pleased to have (a few bucks here, and implement there, a funny-looking trophy, etc.).  I think a prize to vie for is nice, but I doubt the funds for these comps are usually sufficient for monetary prizes.  If you have a sponsor who can kick in enough to have some $50 or more prizes, sure, but if the funds are down, something funny or creative is probably best.  The North Carolina guys have a friend who is an artist, and he made some gorgeous (like, really, really nice) wooden plaques for each event.  If you wanted to commission these they'd have cost too much, but he just wanted to do it.  Almost won one also (I got second in the event), and I was sadder not to win that than any other prize I didn't win at many other comps.

Anyway, that's my two cents.  Eric, I have intended to attend so many of your comps and then either I had to back out or you had to change the date, and I feel like I am really due for a trip up there.  It's a priority now.

Cheers,

Vinnie

Edited January 20, 2023 by Vinnie

[climber511]

I haven't competed in a Grip Comp since The Last Gripmas Carol contest (2018?) - in the years from 70 to my current 74 I have been in a steady decline - more so in overall body strength than grip although both are down significantly.  I've been kicking around the Armlifting contest at the Arnold this year - but I have a surgery 2 weeks prior and don't know how recovered I will be or what lifting limitation I will have.  The events from Armlifting used to be too "big handed" for me but Ricarrdo Magni has taken it over and the current events look better hand size wise.  It is now a 1.75# Rolling Handle (was the 2 3/8" rolling Thunder) - a 1.90" Axle deadlift (was the IM Axle at 2" so not much different) - and the 3"x4" Saxon Bar dead lift (I would much prefer a 2" - 2.5" or similar size - 3" stretches me out some - I don't like the IM Block either for that reason).  But it is what it is so not too bad I think.  I have been trying the events in training with mixed results.  Like Vinnie my dead lift is now about equal to my fat bar strength and I totally suck at the Rolling Handle (mine is home made but with the actual grip from Raptor like will be in the comp and spins like crazy).  Current training numbers are down about 30 - 40# or more in both Axle and Saxon bar from a few years back (my Saxon bar is not seasoned at all so this might improve) - Axle is holding chalk and feels good).  I have never lifted anything with a 1.75" diameter so really nothing to compare current numbers with.  I wish it was some place other than the Arnold - I swore I'd never go to that human zoo again.   I know it will never happen but it would be nice if Armlifting and Grip Sport could "get along".   At the last Gripmas Carol I had both there - Grip Sport and Armlifting - it seemed to go over well.

[Vinnie]

3 hours ago, climber511 said:

At the last Gripmas Carol I had both there - Grip Sport and Armlifting

I'm going to a competition March 25 in Cheyenne, Wyoming (Tim Butler is coming as well), and I believe it is sanctioned by both GSI and Armlifting.

[Nuttgens]

I have never competed before. Would love to make it out to Canadian nationals but I don’t think it’s in the budget right now. 

I think my ideal comp would be:

grippers - probably a silver bullet just because I think it’s pretty easy to judge.

pinch - 2 hand flask is my favourite but I would like to try a Saxon bar also.

And really any rolling handle preferably something smaller than the rolling thunder

and some kind of weird medley with a bunch of odd stuff in it that you would never really practice.

I think lifts to a cross bar make sense easier to judge