Difw Record Controversy

[joelsward]

Sorry for causing such a controversy over the DIFW record. I wasn't aware of the rule that video is required, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything and told everyone who was there not to say anything.

I really don't care if is an official record or not. I just wanted to contribute to the grip community and tell people what I had done, with the hope of encouraging others to do better.

I would like to think that my performance helped inspire Jeff Bissonette with his recent 20 foot effort. (By the way, great job Jeff! That is a 100% improvement for you.) Sometimes you just have to know it is possible before you can do it. Isn't that what this is all about? Inspiring and helping each other reach for new heights.

I do fell I need to say something about what Sybersnott said on the Anvil:

Joel, this is your very FIRST post on the ANVIL and you claim to beat the old DIFW record by about 24 feet?? No pics and no video of the event either. And then you say you got injured. Huh.

Anyone can CLAIM anything. Sorry... but as for me, I don't believe it - no matter how many witnesses you claim to have had.

First of all he didn't even acknowledge that it was MY record that I had set just 1 week before, on my very first attempt at even picking them up. He made it sound like I was just some idiot, out of nowhere, who on his very first post on the board was claiming to beat the record by 24 feet.

Then he implies that I am faking my injury so I don't have to do it again.

And when you say you don't believe what I and the others who were there are saying, you are basically calling us liars. And I don't appreciate that.

What he could have said is:

"Nice job Joel, but I don't think this should be an official record because there was no video."

and that is fine with me. I have no problem with that. Just don't call me a liar and say I am faking my injury.

If you saw the video of the 48 foot effort, you will see that I stood straight up on the start before I started walking, I didn't really go that fast on the walk and I was about to run into a tire. On the 72 foot attempt I made a conscious effort to start walking right away off the start, I went as fast as I could on the walk, and I didn't have anything in my way until the wall got in the way at 67 feet, so I turned and did a little more. That is the reason for the 24 foot improvement.

There was no video and pics because it was just a spur of the moment thing we did in the middle of a training session.

Well enough of this negativity. The good news is my forearm injury is not as bad as I thought it was going to be. There is a little swelling a soreness, but no bleeding and bruising like when I tore both my biceps in the past. I think I will be able to give the Inches another run soon, maybe in the next few weeks. There is an 80 foot straight away in Jeff Bissonette's training facility, so I will give that a shot. I think 80 foot without a turn is within reach and a good short term goal. AND OF COURSE I WILL MAKE SURE TO GET VIDEO!

Joel

[Guest JeffBissonnette]

Well said Joel!

[CMunger]

That's good news about the arm.

[smitty]

Good news about the arm ! Being injured sucks

I believe the original post was not even Joel's, but a witness of the event.

Because of the number of the witnesses, I had no problem with the feat!

But due to the rules of the board, a video is needed..

Hope you heal soon bro

[Tom of Iowa2]

I do fell I need to say something about what Sybersnott said on the Anvil:

Joel, this is your very FIRST post on the ANVIL and you claim to beat the old DIFW record by about 24 feet?? No pics and no video of the event either. And then you say you got injured. Huh.

Anyone can CLAIM anything. Sorry... but as for me, I don't believe it - no matter how many witnesses you claim to have had.

And when you say you don't believe what I and the others who were there are saying, you are basically calling us liars. And I don't appreciate that.

and that is fine with me. I have no problem with that. Just don't call me a liar and say I am faking my injury.

Errrahhh...... are you and your training partners going to the GNC Show of Strength this weekend???

Just kidding...it was just a thought from my Bizzarro dark half. That is generally kept under contol with Paxil and Xanax.

[Bill Piche]

If Snott had tried to post that here, he knows full well I would have deleted it.

That crud should best be left on other forums and not cross posted here.

I won't add to what I think about what he said, because then I would be a rule breaker for flaming him.

[Roark]

Joel,

May I suggest you have a local TV crew on hand for the next attempt?

And refer them to me if they need background on how paramount this

little stroll of your's is. I may have studied Inch and his bells more than

anybody on this planet. (other people have lives ).

Get well first, then continue to improve your distance.

This has renewed my interest. Before you came along, I thought maybe

theory would not turn into reality with DIFW.

[Bearcat 74]

Good post Joel. I think SNott maybe the only one that doubts you did the walk. Hope you heal soon!

[Tom of Iowa2]

All kidding aside.Yes.Very logical that with the tire out of the way and with a bit more speed you covered the 72 feet.

[oldtimer]

Mine may be a minority view, or a newbie's view,but that doesn't make it wrong. Yeah, I know it doesn't make it right either. But, think about the following: A video can be faked. I would prefer to accept the word of people, with good reputations, as to whether something actually happened or not. Naturally, I think all of us would agree that a photo/video would be a bonus, so that we could enjoy the feat almost as much as the eye-witnesses. Having said all that, I believe that all performances not performed in competition should be marked with an asterisk. Let's face it-- feats of grip strength, such as the Double Inch Dumbbell Farmer's Walk, have not been around long enough to have showed up in competitions yet. Let's hope that it does. How about using the same criteria that the rest of the world uses--i.e. in weightlifting, powerlifting, track & field, etc. Have 3 judges to judge a competion. Weigh the weights. Measure the distances. That's been good enough to satisfy most people. Are we to be too parochial and assume that nothing good has ever happened without it being videotaped, or to make the other mistake--that is if it's on video, it must be true? Let's face it folks, we're human, we're flawed. But we can be reasonable. Unfortunately, no matter what we do, there will always be some critics. In the case of the 70+ foot DIFW I believe the guy did it. Why--because all those guys said he did, and yes because there was video tape of his 48.8' effort. Yes, it's possible that someone substituted a couple of lighter Inch look-alikes for the tape, but it's highly unlikely with all those witnesses--. Give the man some credit--it was a magnificent feat. Yet, it should be asterisked because it wasn't in competition, like many of our grip feats.

[Guest Harlan Jacobs]

I agree with Oldtimer. If you have credible witnesses,that writes in and explains the event, I see no reason to doubt it.

[Gorilla Hands]

To add to Dale's post; I saw Starwars, and I don't believe Dearth Vader exists in a galaxy far far away. Great movie though. However I have friends with word and reputation as true as the wind. If they told me they saw something happen that is within the realm of their knowledge or expertise I would believe them more than a video or picture; And let me say this, if they told me they saw Dearth Vader, then by all means I would....kindly walk them to the pharmacy for their prosac refill. Seriously, something has to be said for the individual having both sense enough in what he chooses to believe and graceful tact in how he disagrees with what he disbelieves. That's just me. I believe in personal responsibilty. That being said....the popular opinion has already been revealed. Let us move on, and show ourselves to be worthy of the communication we enjoy.

[David Horne]

Joel,

Go for it!

It looks like the new record will soon be 80'!!!!

David

[Bill Piche]

Actually, multiple, credible witnesses AND video is pretty hard to beat. Joel's first breaking of the record set a great standard.

Right now there aren't enough grip contests to require the asterisk IMO.

[Roark]

Let me clear the brush away first:

I believe Joel walked the walk. I believe BC is a credible witness.

Were it only about the word of honorable men, no other evidence would

need to be presented.

Unfortunately some men are not so honorable.

There have been some world class feats claimed AND BELIEVED for decades

that we now know did not happen, in spite of the word of 'witnesses' and the

long telling of the same feats. Personal glory, marketing ploys, income, whatever the various motivations were, false tales were spread to enhance the reputations

and the wallets of some men whose real strength could be found in their deceptive

abilities.

Because of dishonorable men the patina of our discussion changes, and honorable men of real accomplishment are thrown into the same mix as those who corrupt

the legacy. It must be so; otherwise, the best actors and liars become the best

'paper' lifters.

I have a feeling that Joel even yet does not realize the incredible feats he is

performing. But a word of caution, Joel: Jeff has quadrupled his distance and

seems to be getting stronger with each attempt.

Exciting times for me.

[AP]

Joel,

I think that everyone on this board can agree that rule number 4 isn't meant to discourage people from attempting and achieving high level feats of strength. Both the believers and the cautious skeptics would wish you a fast recovery and good luck. BTW have you tried the grippers yet? A DIFW would have to give some good base strength to start from.

[bseedot]

Were it only about the word of honorable men, no other evidence would need to be presented.

Unfortunately some men are not so honorable.

Also, unfortunately, one man's honorable witness is another's corrupt liar.

From my point of view, rule 4 was instituted so that NO ONE WOULD HAVE TO CALL ANYONE A LIAR SINCE PROOF WOULD BE SUPPLIED WITH THE CLAIM.

Very well said, Mac.

Look at the divergent paths the 48' thread took and where some of these 72' threads are going. There is a lot more animosity and ill will related to the 72' feat and most of us even believe that Joel did the 72' feat (myself included). Which was constructive and which was destructive is, I hope, clear to all.

BC.

[OldGuy]

Unless we were there in person to witness the feat, we are either going to believe it or not believe it. This will be so no matter what proof was provided. There being no mystery or lack of information about what Joel has done, I have no problem in fully accepting the claims. The same is true for Dave Morton and his recent closing of a #4. There are others claims going around which are shrouded in secrecy and mystery, with little information coming forward. These I choose to doubt. I think that myself and others are holding back to maintain the peace around here. The rules are doing their job!

[The Mac]

Come on, Guys.

With rule #4 we have a real opportunity to help nail down all of the great feats that are being done at the moment. In 30 years time, when 15-year olds are taking 2 Inches for leisurely strolls up the gym stairs we will all be able to say that we have video proof documenting THE FIRST TIME IT WAS EVER DONE.

What I'm trying to say is don't let controversy over this rule spoil what we are trying to achieve. Rule #4 does not call anyone a liar, it merely states what proof is needed. If you see something amazing but don't have the VIDEO proof that is required, post it over on the Goerner Forum.

[David Horne]

There are ways to discuss things, but snotts comments are downright rude!

Joel go on and piss that 80' stroll!

David

[The Mac]

Yes, those comments deed seem somewhat excessive.

[Sybersnott]

David Horne,

Those comments/posts created by me have been deleted by the forum adminstrator, and right now I will refuse to say anything else on this topic.

[1stCoC]

Does the rule #4 apply to comments made by men of history such as Sir Roark? So, we shall never speak of events and feats of world class grip that were now supposedly done prior to video? I don't recall lifting or throwing in any national meet that a record or win required more than qualified judges. I think Oldtimer hit it on the head about a real person hopefully with a grip/strength backround would be harder to fool than a video camera.Also, consider a world record n ANY sport is NOT an easiy repeatable feat but a moment in time when all came together... Just some passing thoughts..............RS

[OldGuy]

I think that most of us just make up our own minds wether we believe claims or not. I certainly do.

[The Mac]

In the past videocameras and cameras have not been so readily available as they are today, and hopefully this trend will continue. In the past we had to do the best we could. Now we can do better. I for one am very leery of many of the feats of old.

As for throwing records being set in meets with "only" qualified judges, as yet there are no qualified judges in terms of gripstrength. Oh, don't get me wrong, when I say "qualified" I do not mean that certain people are not in a position to know what it takes to perform a certain feat, but that there is no single organisation (such as there is in athletics or whatever) that certifies the judges. (The IAWA and USAWA are probably as best we can do here at the moment). Of course certified judges can still lie about what they have witnessed (pass a bad lift as good or whatever) but at least in that case there is some "standard" that those judges have to try and maintain.