What am I doing wrong: and how can I fix it

[ultimatemorty]

I started getting back into my coc grippers and I'm weak with grip. I've been doing 13 reps on the Trainer with the right hand, 9 with the left. I do a 10 second static hold and I did that for 4 days in a row. On day 5 I then wanted to work on other areas and I grabbed a blue 20kg plate and held that for 23 seconds. The next day I came out and did two yellow plates for 50 seconds but could only manage 7 seconds for the 20s. I took a rest day and the next day even after the rest, I could barely even hold the 20kg plate. I then took a two day rest and can't even hold it at all and even the 15KG plate is difficult. I don't get how there can be this much deterioration. I've since removed biceps from my workout so I don't overtrain. I'll hit that with other exercises.

How many times am I going to be able to do grip work a week? I'm really frustrated because I want to build my grip but it's deteriorated very badly.

[Fist of Fury]

Unless you have lost weight it's just that you need to take more rest. Maybe do some light workout to speed up the recovery process. Get some blood flowing in the arms and hands.

[ultimatemorty]

40 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Unless you have lost weight it's just that you need to take more rest. Maybe do some light workout to speed up the recovery process. Get some blood flowing in the arms and hands.

Cheers. I am going to take two full days off with very light cardio, go back to legs, and then go back to arms, rest day and then try the grip stuff again. That should be a 6 day break. I've lost a few kilos in the last 4 weeks but Nothing else is suffering.

[Fist of Fury]

47 minutes ago, ultimatemorty said:

Cheers. I am going to take two full days off with very light cardio, go back to legs, and then go back to arms, rest day and then try the grip stuff again. That should be a 6 day break. I've lost a few kilos in the last 4 weeks but Nothing else is suffering.

If you lose weight, if it's more than what is normal for you. It can affect your grip strength drastically. However, in i long term it's no problem losing a few kg's.

[Alex K]

I believe your recovery must take a little longer at this phase (maybe due to a caloric deficit, sleep, or other factors, even stress plays a huge role). Plus, your training seems to happen on a daily basis and you're doing pinch along with grippers. Although it is not really a big problem most of the time, I noticed that fitting something along with grippers into your training does mean that you won't be training grippers for a longer period of time, since more of the forearm muscle tissue is being activated for the different movements. In my opinion there's one of the two ways you could try:

1. Train both grippers and pinch but with large breaks.

2. Choose one of the movements and focus on it for a while, having 2 days+ of rest between workouts. Maybe incorporate the other one a bit later, when your forearms are back on track and in great shape!

Hope that helps! I've done fatbar after grippers once and I couldn't really train grippers for a whole 4 days or so. I usually take 2 days breaks max...

[ultimatemorty]

11 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

If you lose weight, if it's more than what is normal for you. It can affect your grip strength drastically. However, in i long term it's no problem losing a few kg's.

I'm overweight though. There's no reason I can't do both if I'm doing it at the right pace. I've been doing a lot of high intensity martial arts so naturally losing a little bit of body fat. I'm eating well.

 

I see the most obvious issue is that I've overtraining. I need to find a way to manage this better, but I don't know how.

[Fist of Fury]

4 minutes ago, ultimatemorty said:

I'm overweight though. There's no reason I can't do both if I'm doing it at the right pace. I've been doing a lot of high intensity martial arts so naturally losing a little bit of body fat. I'm eating well.

 

I see the most obvious issue is that I've overtraining. I need to find a way to manage this better, but I don't know how.

In my experience when it comes to strength it doesn't matter whether it's fat, water or muscle you lose. If you lose any of it you lose strength. At least this is how it workes for me. However, just losing a few kg's is nothing but if you lose more than 5 kg's then it should start to matter.

And, as I said in my previous post, this is no problem in the long run, once the body has adapted. But in short term, losing let's say 5 kg's should affect your strength.

[ultimatemorty]

1 minute ago, Fist of Fury said:

In my experience when it comes to strength it doesn't matter whether it's fat, water or muscle you lose. If you lose any of it you lose strength. At least this is how it workes for me. However, just losing a few kg's is nothing but if you lose more than 5 kg's then it should start to matter.

And, as I said in my previous post, this is no problem in the long run, once the body has adapted. But in short term, losing let's say 5 kg's should affect your strength.

So I believe 4 weeks ago I started at 79KG, I'm now 77, so shouldn't be the issue. Certainly not to the point that within 1 week, I go from 23 seconds pinch gripping a blue plate to not being able to hold it at all. I'll take a week off from grip and see how it goes.

[Fist of Fury]

Are you using chalk every time you train? Pinch is a friction based lift. If you don't use chalk (and know how to use it consistently) that might be the reason for your results. Humidity plays a big role. Also your hands can have different moisture on different days. That plays a big role as well.

That's why you should learn to chalk properly every time you train grip. If you didn't already know this.

[ultimatemorty]

4 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said:

Are you using chalk every time you train? Pinch is a friction based lift. If you don't use chalk (and know how to use it consistently) that might be the reason for your results. Humidity plays a big role. Also your hands can have different moisture on different days. That plays a big role as well.

That's why you should learn to chalk properly every time you train grip. If you didn't already know this.

Ahhhh, I didn't think of that, although the first two times I didn't use chalk. Today I also tried a 2inch thumbless lift and it was shitty so I don't know. But no chalk.

I'll take the week off from grip, see how it goes, and try chalk. I think I'm also training most days arms/legs rotation so my body overall probably hasn't had enough time to recover, and I'm also on nights for two weeks.

Edited July 17, 2021 by ultimatemorty

[mcalpine1986]

4 hours ago, ultimatemorty said:

I started getting back into my coc grippers and I'm weak with grip. I've been doing 13 reps on the Trainer with the right hand, 9 with the left. I do a 10 second static hold and I did that for 4 days in a row. On day 5 I then wanted to work on other areas and I grabbed a blue 20kg plate and held that for 23 seconds. The next day I came out and did two yellow plates for 50 seconds but could only manage 7 seconds for the 20s. I took a rest day and the next day even after the rest, I could barely even hold the 20kg plate. I then took a two day rest and can't even hold it at all and even the 15KG plate is difficult. I don't get how there can be this much deterioration. I've since removed biceps from my workout so I don't overtrain. I'll hit that with other exercises.

How many times am I going to be able to do grip work a week? I'm really frustrated because I want to build my grip but it's deteriorated very badly.

Rest more. Diving in at 5 days in a row of grip is not going to help with strengths gains. You need to build up your work capacity and recovery. Id cut back to 2-3 days per week with rest days inbetween if i were you. 

Do you train other exercises and bodyparts 5 days in a row and gain strength? 

[ultimatemorty]

22 minutes ago, mcalpine1986 said:

Rest more. Diving in at 5 days in a row of grip is not going to help with strengths gains. You need to build up your work capacity and recovery. Id cut back to 2-3 days per week with rest days inbetween if i were you. 

Do you train other exercises and bodyparts 5 days in a row and gain strength? 

I've been doing a bench focus which has worked time in and time out, but I threw in biceps and it was too much. Big mistake. I could have handled the grip if I did it for one day in that week.

 

From next week might look something like 3x bench 2 times legs, one times grip. My bench works up to 3 sets of 5, then a light day, then a high volume pyramid. It's the best workout I've ever done for getting up quickly.

[slazbob]

Every time I add something different to grip training it sets off a chain of events of recovery and adaptation. I really don’t start to see the results until 2 weeks later…by then, you could have done at least 4 training sessions and thought you didn’t get anything out of it. Give it a bit of time to do well, and also struggle…as the body coordinates a new motor pattern and adjusts.

Then out of nowhere you have a boost of strength and start to think that you’re just having a good session but in reality it’s just your body is now prepared for it and it needed time. 
there are a lot of people who do/did a lot of volume for grip, and overtraining wasn’t a problem. If you’re achy and not motivated to train then I’d take a week off. 

[Nuttgens]

38 minutes ago, slazbob said:

Every time I add something different to grip training it sets off a chain of events of recovery and adaptation. I really don’t start to see the results until 2 weeks later…by then, you could have done at least 4 training sessions and thought you didn’t get anything out of it. Give it a bit of time to do well, and also struggle…as the body coordinates a new motor pattern and adjusts.

Then out of nowhere you have a boost of strength and start to think that you’re just having a good session but in reality it’s just your body is now prepared for it and it needed time. 
there are a lot of people who do/did a lot of volume for grip, and overtraining wasn’t a problem. If you’re achy and not motivated to train then I’d take a week off. 

This. So many times I have thought I was getting weaker then out of no where hit a new record and that record becomes my new baseline.

[mcalpine1986]

On 7/17/2021 at 3:18 PM, ultimatemorty said:

I've been doing a bench focus which has worked time in and time out, but I threw in biceps and it was too much. Big mistake. I could have handled the grip if I did it for one day in that week.

 

From next week might look something like 3x bench 2 times legs, one times grip. My bench works up to 3 sets of 5, then a light day, then a high volume pyramid. It's the best workout I've ever done for getting up quickly.

3 times per week can work great for strength gains yes, i train weighted dips 3 times per week and grip around 3 times per week. 5 days a week not many will make progress on. 

Bicep work is important for elbow health so id keep it in. 

[mcalpine1986]

On 7/17/2021 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Koss said:

I believe your recovery must take a little longer at this phase (maybe due to a caloric deficit, sleep, or other factors, even stress plays a huge role). Plus, your training seems to happen on a daily basis and you're doing pinch along with grippers. Although it is not really a big problem most of the time, I noticed that fitting something along with grippers into your training does mean that you won't be training grippers for a longer period of time, since more of the forearm muscle tissue is being activated for the different movements. In my opinion there's one of the two ways you could try:

1. Train both grippers and pinch but with large breaks.

2. Choose one of the movements and focus on it for a while, having 2 days+ of rest between workouts. Maybe incorporate the other one a bit later, when your forearms are back on track and in great shape!

Hope that helps! I've done fatbar after grippers once and I couldn't really train grippers for a whole 4 days or so. I usually take 2 days breaks max...

Good post. I train in a similar way and it works for me.