Guest DavidHW Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 For forced negatives, I have access at my gym to a pretty decent grip machine from Hammer Strength. Trouble is, I don't know what the ratio is between the plates placed on the machine and the in-lb equivalent for grippers. I read that PDA's new Gripanator is supposedly 4.3-1. Does anyone familiar with the HS machine have an idea on its ratio? Thanks, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 If I may add, David, a request for the same info on the Nautilus gripper ratio info. Both are at the gym where I train. For the same 'feel' of difficulty 25 lbs (yes, twenty-five) on the Nautilus seems to equal 135 on the Nautilus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kINGPIN Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 You guys are so lucky to have access to proper grip machines. If i suggested that at the club I work at then they would laugh at me. Are there any pics on the web of the machines you mention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 Kingpin, Life Fitness has a photo of their (Hammer Strength) gripper at thier web, and no doubt Nautilus does as well, The former gives a much better hand positioning. Kim Wood told me years ago that one of the Bengals could do ten reps on a fully loaded (with 45s) Hammer Strength gripper- and that particular one had an extra long horn to accomodate more plates. It took two men to help 'deadlift' the weight to the starting position and then the player got the ten reps with, as I recall, 400 lbs, but I am not certain about that figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kINGPIN Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 Roark, thanx i'll check that one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 I have had some experience with the HS machine. While it is an interesting machine and certainly pumps the forearms I noticed little crossover with the grippers . I've known people who were able to use over 200lbs on it who struggled with a #1 gripper. If you have access to one go for it, but if the grippers are your focus you might not be satisfied with the results. A little tip, it's not easy, but working it backwards more closely replicates the gripper position. This is most easily accomplished using one hand at a time facing the machine (stand with your body outside the grip handle you are using). Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 Terminator, If you mean 200lbs using two hands, then a 100 lb per hand rate would be the comparison for a gripper, but I agree with you that there seems to be little crossover; however, that may be because we do not know the ratio. It may take 200 lbs with one hand on the Hammer Strength to equal a #1. I have tried facing the machine using one hand, and it does equate better to a gripper. Have you tried using an undergrip as you sit on the machine? Also, for pinch grippers, placing the thumb end over one handle and opposing four fingers on the other handle, then using a sort of 'alligator jaw' movement with the hand makes for a good thumb workout. This works best if you stand facing the machine using both hands. Is 200 lbs the most you have witnessed being used on the HS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 I have personally done upwards of 280 lbs on a HS gripper (2 hands, sitting on machine). Getting it started was interesting. It is obviously a different feel than a gripper, but certainly feels quite a bit rougher to me than closing a 140 lb gripper with one hand. I can guarantee that a 200 lb one hand close would be much more difficult than closing a #1 gripper. There is difficulty determining the ratio because there is such a length of handle to choose from. I have tried the underhand method and liked the way it felt. I did notice some elbow pain if I did that regularly. Not a bad machine, just shouldn't be compared to a torsion spring gripper. I find it's very difficult to correlate spring tension to weight no matter what the application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshadow Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 Hhmmm,If Brooks Kubik is an advocate of these machines(Hammer Strength) there just might be something to them! I believe I will scrounge our local gyms and see what the talk is all about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DavidHW Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 I can comfortably close 90 lbs on the Hammer Strength with my right hand for about the same number of reps as I can close my No. 2 gripper (15). I can do forced negatives up to about 230 with the same hand, at which point the handles will-- suddenly -- rip out of my hand. With two hands, I can do a forced neg at about 270 for 10 seconds. These numbers are from sitting in the standard, seated position. I've tried the reverse, as I can do a little more weight that way, but I can smell an injury waiting to happen if I don't have someone spotting the weight (not always a possibility, as only a few folks in my gym can safely spot 250 lbs in such an awkward position, esp. when the exposed bar may only protrude by an inch or so). David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DavidHW Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 Roark, your Bengals story is amazing. I'd like to see a video of that. One thing I've noticed with many folks who work the HS gripper machine is that they don't do a complete close when they rep, much like those who do "curtsy" squats. I worked in with a guy once who had 135 loaded on the machine. He was doing reps for sure, but the handles never came closer than an inch apart. I told him he'd get better results if he touched the handles to make a complete squeeze, and his response was classic: "But I'd have to lower the weight!" Uh, yeah. :-) David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 I tried the Hammer Strength machine at a gym I visited once, and was very disappointed. You haffta add a lot of weight, and even then, you really didn't feel like you were getting a good grip workout. The machine that has lived up to my expectations is the Joe Kinney "Secret Weapon" machine. Even if you don't use a lot of weight, you can really feel the pressure. The only problem is that some people have complained that it's easy to cheat on the SW. If you try NOT to.... it will really test your grip. Another problem - the machine is really for "negatives".... you won't get any positive movements, and that's not it's design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshadow Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 After reading Terminator,Roark,and the one and only Sybersnott's posts,I believe I will refrain from checking out the HS gripper machine! It seems as if I would just be wasting time! It's gripper strength I'm interested in after all! I have not found a machine I like yet( other than plate loaded gripper machines,of course!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 blueshadow, What are your options now? A grip machine.... ah, but from who and where? Also, how much are you willing to fork over? (What price glory??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wood Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 Im affraid i have to disagree with some folks here. I believe that the hammer strength gripper is the best gripper that you can use. At least thats what i have found through trial and error. I have used it as the basis of my grip workouts for the last year or so and have found my grip strength skyrocket. i dont do negatives or anything fancy just one set to failure of anywhere between twenty reps to fifty reps strict. when i say strict i mean strict. most people will use their legs and arms to shrug the weight up. If you make sure that your feet are behind you and that your elbows are bent, only the fingers get worked. Last year in a manner of months i went from not being able to close the #3 after spring ball to repping it four times just before two-a-days. I highly doubt that anyone doing it correctly could use much more than 90 pounds. just tonight i did one set of 22 reps with 200 pounds in the normal style and 15 reps in the pinch style that Roark talked about. the handle diameters are the same as the COC grippers which may be intentional, i dont know. it also has a footplate for negatives if you want to do those. It has much different leverages than the nautilus gripper so its hard to compare. i wouldnt worry about what weight compares to what gripper, its too complex to worry about. just focus on increasing reps and weight much like a twenty rep squat routine and the grip strength will come. hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 John brings up a good point: Where are your feet during the squeezing? You may have to deadlift the mechanism into beginning position because the handles are so far apart, but I have found also that putting your feet beside your hips on tip toes eliminates any leverage, and as John says, there is considerable leverage when the feet are used as a pushing point. The palms face each other on the Hammer Strength, whereas the Nautilus has a less natural stance and very different leverage factors, and I have found that you will drag the machine all over the gym trying to get into starting position unless you have it backed against a wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 John, As they say, different strokes for different folks, if it works for you go for it. As for the large poundages, they required a deadlift type movement to "set" the handles, after that the movement was similar to repping the top end of a heavy gripper. I have a relatively strong sweep so I never concentrated on opening the hand all the way for each rep but definitely stayed seated with the elbows bent (no shrugging or deadlifting). I also found the machine didn't lend well to negatives for me because holding it closed seemed to take all of the stress off, unlike a "loaded" spring type gripper. That's impressive, 4 reps with the #3 , are you working towards the #4 at all? Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshadow Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 Hello SyberSnott, Well I already have a few grip toys as I am now addicted to grip strength and The Gripboard, but I am always on the look out for new ones. I'm just a glutton for punishment am I not? At this time I am the proud owner of grippers T,1,2,3, Turks, supergripper,eagle loops,Appollon's Axle, and of course the Hardy Handshake,oh and the Rolling Thunder also. I use all of them with the exception of the eagle loops at this time building up finger strength for the loops,don't want to risk injury and not be able to work out I'd go nuts! As for the machines it is just a personal rant for me I never liked any never will! But I do not disparage anyone who uses them! As iI said ,it is just a personal preference and whatever works for someone is what he should use! Regards and happy holidays, JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 For those who disparage using machines, I agree to each his own, but it seems such a puzzling position to me, and seems to be limited to exercise only. We don't disparage other machines (cars, toasters, etc), but generally acknowledge the improvements that they may offer to our lives. I have used some machines which were far worse than free weights- one curl machine felt like 100 lbs at the beginning and about 10 lbs at the finish. But I have used others that offer marvelous substitutes for free weights, and/or, simply variety. If there was exponents of the position that only machines have value, and that free weights have none, those of us conversant with free weights would disagree, at least I would. If the position is: no machines, then in one sense, we cannot use our bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshadow Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 Amen to that last post Roark,you and yours have a happy and safe holiday!! JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshadow Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 Took an inventory of grip toys after that last post,add pinch block and guillotine style plate loaded grip machine to above list,not a bad little collection if I say so myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 Put 90 lbs on the Hammer Strength gripper this morning, then moved my feet back on the floor under my hips so no cheating was possible. Got three sets of ten, which were much harder than 135 lbs on the same machine with my feet flat forward to pull against (even though I did not think I had been pulling, I must have been). There was much more of a grip workout this way- which will be my manner of choice from now on. The ego suffers, the grip improves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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