tmmicklabs Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 (edited) Just got a brand new # 3 yesterday from ironmind. It's from the new batch that has "Captain of Crush" engraved in the middle ring of the handles. I just wanted to take a minute to let everyone know how it compares to my 2002 # 3. Here are the measurements between the handles. 2002 # 3 = 3 1/8 2003 # 3 = 2 13/16 Oh my heck...That is a pretty big difference. Now I bet you guys are wondering if the new # 3 is easier than my old one. The answer is....HECK YES. I am 1 3/4 inches away from closing my old # 3. I gave the new # 3 a go right out of the package without any warmup. Got it down to 1/4 of an inch and almost fainted. I looked at the bottom of the handles just to make sure I did not have a 2 stamped on the bottom....It did not. This is a huge difference. We are talking about an inch and a half difference for me between two different # 3's. So what does all this mean. Is my new # 3 really really easy ? Or is my old # 3 just insanely hard. Has anyone else found this much variance between # 3's ? I know that Tommy Helsup was a monster # 3 that is similar to mine. Edited September 30, 2003 by tmmicklabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 What can you do with your #2 ? BTW: yes i also have a #3 that stands way above all the #3s i've tried (i've tried around 6 different #3s ). But we are are talking about a 0.5" difference at the close, not 1.5" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmmicklabs Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 Amaury, Glad you asked about the # 2. I just got a brand new one yesterday also. Heres the details. 2002 # 2 = 3 inches between the handles. I am 1/8 away from closing it. 2003 # 2 = 2 and 7/8 between the handles. I am 1/16 away from closing it. I should have the easier # 2 closed within 2 weeks. My PDA Ironhorse Choke Coller arrives tommorow and will assist in the last 1/16th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I hate hearing about easy 3's or 4's. There should be a standard set of grippers that get sent to the witness for certification. I wonder how long the list really should be........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I hate hearing about easy 3's or 4's. There should be a standard set of grippers that get sent to the witness for certification. I wonder how long the list really should be........ Definitely takes some of the luster off the Coc title. Maybe Ironmind will start making easier Red nails next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmmicklabs Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 Amen Brother Terminator. I thought I was another 2 years away from getting certified until yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I am 3mms away on the gripper i want to certify with (it seems a "normal" #3 at least compared to the ones i tried). I can do more than 9 reps on my #2. I would tend to say that your #3 is indeed quite easy. So it's a good next gripper after you close your #2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 What it means is that your old #3 is harder than your new #3. I don't think you can make any assumptions based on that about whether 2002 #3s are generally harder than 2003 #3s. I have one of each and they are virtually identical. Given the same spring size and materials, a gripper with a smaller spread will be much easier. A gripper with the spring set shallow vs. deep will be much easier. This only has to vary by a couple of milimeters to make a fairly big difference. As I posted the other day, this is likely the reason that my BB Elite (which has a larger spring than a #3) is only marginally harder than my #3 (it has a 3/8 inch smaller spread). Amazingly, even though these small adjustments can make a huge difference, I have found the COC #3s (out of the 10 or so I have tried) to be generally consistent with the occassional gripper on one extreme or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I wouldnt worry about all the new 3's being easier, I just got my first #3 a week ago and it is a beast. 3 inches between the handles and hard as hell to close. I have no other 3's to compare with but it is much harder than my supermaster, and my supermaster is much harder than my 2. I can close my 2 pretty consistently now, and im still about an inch from gettin the 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik_F Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 What it means is that your old #3 is harder than your new #3. I don't think you can make any assumptions based on that about whether 2002 #3s are generally harder than 2003 #3s. I have one of each and they are virtually identical. Given the same spring size and materials, a gripper with a smaller spread will be much easier. A gripper with the spring set shallow vs. deep will be much easier. This only has to vary by a couple of milimeters to make a fairly big difference. As I posted the other day, this is likely the reason that my BB Elite (which has a larger spring than a #3) is only marginally harder than my #3 (it has a 3/8 inch smaller spread). Amazingly, even though these small adjustments can make a huge difference, I have found the COC #3s (out of the 10 or so I have tried) to be generally consistent with the occassional gripper on one extreme or the other. Yes, that was what I was thinking. It seems like everybody has "hard" #3s and hate hearing about "easier" ones. Another thing, has anyone bought a #4 with the new text on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmmicklabs Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 What it means is that your old #3 is harder than your new #3. I don't think you can make any assumptions based on that about whether 2002 #3s are generally harder than 2003 #3s. I have one of each and they are virtually identical. Given the same spring size and materials, a gripper with a smaller spread will be much easier. A gripper with the spring set shallow vs. deep will be much easier. This only has to vary by a couple of milimeters to make a fairly big difference. As I posted the other day, this is likely the reason that my BB Elite (which has a larger spring than a #3) is only marginally harder than my #3 (it has a 3/8 inch smaller spread). Amazingly, even though these small adjustments can make a huge difference, I have found the COC #3s (out of the 10 or so I have tried) to be generally consistent with the occassional gripper on one extreme or the other. Yes, that was what I was thinking. It seems like everybody has "hard" #3s and hate hearing about "easier" ones. Another thing, has anyone bought a #4 with the new text on it? Not yet. I will order one in a few weeks. Maybe my luck will continue and Ironmind will bless me with an easy # 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik_F Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I asked IM about a month ago, and they said it would take 1-2 months before the #4s had the new text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimwylie1 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I hate hearing about easy 3's or 4's. There should be a standard set of grippers that get sent to the witness for certification. I wonder how long the list really should be........ Pat, The Monsters of Mash gripper certification procedure should sort the men from the boys. BTW how did you rate the gripper that Wanna is passing around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Helter-skelter. Ironmindless production control. For comparative purposes, useless. For training purposes, if you own several grippers, and can arrange them in order of difficulty, very useful- just ignore the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Helter-skelter. Ironmindless production control.For comparative purposes, useless. For training purposes, if you own several grippers, and can arrange them in order of difficulty, very useful- just ignore the numbers. That may be true. However, given that I believe very tiny differences (e.g. spring set 2 milimeters deeper or vise-versa or spread being 2/8 inch difference) can make a big difference in the difficulty of a spring gripper, I'm not sure it is realistic to expect Ironmind to make all of its grippers exactly the same. These are tiny differences and the grippers only cost $20. I'm actually fairly pleased with their general consistency with quality and performance. If we wanted to know without a doubt that each of their grippers was calibrated to be exactly the same, I don't think they could do it for $20. Perhaps they could sell a more expensive standarized/calibrated gripper for certification purposes?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Yes, that was what I was thinking. It seems like everybody has "hard" #3s and hate hearing about "easier" ones. ? Since you appear to be addressing me, I own close to a dozen #3's now. Some very hard, some not so hard, and a good distribution in the middle. I've seen and closed well over thirty of them at this point, and I've seen a few that were so weak that I wouldn't consider them a #3. I'd be just as pissed if someone certified on one of these weakies, as I would if somebody got a deadlift WR on a bar that was 100lbs underweight. Jim, I haven't received the Monster gripper yet...should be here in a day or two. If Heath's assessment is right, and I expect it is, Wanna may need to choose another gripper.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I'm not sure it is realistic to expect Ironmind to make all of its grippers exactly the same. These are tiny differences and the grippers only cost $20. I'm actually fairly pleased with their general consistency with quality and performance. If we wanted to know without a doubt that each of their grippers was calibrated to be exactly the same, I don't think they could do it for $20.Perhaps they could sell a more expensive standarized/calibrated gripper for certification purposes?? I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tou Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 When I got certified, with Pat Lemieux, I wanted to try his 3, to see if the strength of my 3 was "normal". It was, as Pat's #3, an old model circa 94-95, was the same strength as mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Tou: how can you judge if you just tried one other #3 ? I mean your #3 may be harder than the average, or weaker ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 It is too late to do anything about the Ironmind certification mess. The are now a great many names on the list. There has to have been the full range of #3 variations in the grippers used for certification, from easy to hard. Forget about Ironmind and embrace the Gripboards soon to be in place certification program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 OldGuy, Your years reveal wisdom, as well as a wrinkled face. In the decade plus that grippers have been made this problem has been continuing. If the company manufacturing them needs outside prompting to address a ten year old problem, a solution should be elsewhere sought. If a standard gripper could be manufactured but cost $50 or so, perhaps that is the solution. The random resistance ones could be used for training and stair-stepping and the reliable range ones could be used for certification. Of course, were it not for the Grip Board- and I mean this as a very serious question- exactly where would the awareness of this situation have surfaced? Without the 'town meetings' that happen here, many would assume a 3 is a 3 is a 3. The day is not far off when Grip Board certification means more than certification elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Guys and gals, we take it for GRANTED these days about #3 closings REGARDLESS if it is supposedly "an easier 3". Remember, this place is unique for sure. In other words, don't be selling yourself short as this place has pretty high standards! Most people if you handed them ANY 3 think it's a brick. One funny thing, Dr. Strossen probably LOVES to hear someone make a post about them buying an "easier 3". He probably says "Dang, sales today jumped again. Someone probably posted on the gripboard about an "easy" 3 they just got!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 The great variation in Ironmind grippers even among those of the same number, is good for Ironmind's sales. They no doubt know that. Ironmind unlike other gripper companies does not bring out more and more models. They do not have to, as every gripper they sell is different! So it is good for sales, but very bad for valid and fair certification purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strong Man Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I know what you mean wanna, it is just so hard to believe that the person who started this post is 1/8 with the 2 but already is 1/4 with the 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I know what you mean wanna, it is just so hard to believe that the person who started this post is 1/8 with the 2 but already is 1/4 with the 3. In addition to his #3 being easier, perhaps he has a great sweep and is weaker in the area of the final close. For those that do not train grippers but lift heavy, I have found several that have been able to sweep a #3 down fairly far and not be able to fullly close either the #2 or #3. However, I have never seen someone that could actually finish a #3 who does not train grippers some (I know there are rare exceptions) because the strength needed to do that is the kind of specific strength that can only be obtained via gripper training IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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