Fist of Fury Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Hello, I'm wondering about strength standards for short steel braced bending. What level is considered a strong bend and what is considered elite level etc? I'm referring to short steel bending where you're able to use the leg crush technique through the whole bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill_Shuhovtsev Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) Hello. This is table for navigate. Some things that came to mind first. All steel 10-12+mm have a large spread hardness, so i write digits in Krahling system. Medium lvl (770-910lb)- Crush steel: 180х10mm armature(low carb), 180x10x10 (low carb), 180x12mm round(low carb) AISI 304 - 180x10mm round; Kink steel: 150x10mm CRS round(0,35-0,45% high carbonium) Good lvl (1080-1170lb)- Crush steel: 180x10 hex AISI 304, 170x10 round AISI 321, FAT. Kink steel: 200x12mm CRS round(low carbonium 0,05-0,1%), MOAB. High lvl (1200-1280lb) - Crush steel: 210x14mm round(low carb), 180x10mm round AISI 201, 210x12x12mm (low carb). Elite lvl (1425+lb)- Crush steel: 200х10х10mm AISI 304, 200x12 armature(low carb). Kink steel: 180x12mm round CRS (medium carb 0.2%). Edited December 4, 2020 by Kirill_Shuhovtsev 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donc101 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 There are no recognized standards for elite levels. David Horne's page is a good place to look though to see what good benders have done. He has a record for spike style bending using rated steel and here are the bends: There is also a record for bending 6" rated steel bars. Here are the bends: There is also the old school spike braced bends. This list you can use double wraps for and does not require rated steel. Non rated steel can vary quite a bit. You can also look at the monumental bends grip feat page he has for some hard spike style bends that have been done. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted December 4, 2020 Author Share Posted December 4, 2020 So basically a gold nail is good and anything below that is like below red nail unbraced cert? Or below closing a #3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill_Shuhovtsev Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 10 hours ago, Fist of Fury said: So basically a gold nail is good and anything below that is like below red nail unbraced cert? Or below closing a #3? 5" Gold Nail is a normal medium achievment like Red cert. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donc101 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Kirill_Shuhovtsev said: 5" Gold Nail is a normal medium achievment like Red cert. I don’t think there are many people in the world who can bend a 5” Gold right now. You are probably in a very small group and elite at that type of bending if you can do that feat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Donc101 said: I don’t think there are many people in the world who can bend a 5” Gold right now. You are probably in a very small group and elite at that type of bending if you can do that feat. The lists you posted doesn't make any sense to me. 260 kg DHWOG steel is not elite for braced bending. There's something wrong there, are those timed bends where you need to finish it in a short period of time? 260 kg is not much harder than a hard red nail, only about 30 kg harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donc101 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said: The lists you posted doesn't make any sense to me. 260 kg DHWOG steel is not elite for braced bending. There's something wrong there, are those timed bends where you need to finish it in a short period of time? 260 kg is not much harder than a hard red nail, only about 30 kg harder. Look at the rules on his page. You want to know what is good. I am pointing you in the direction of a page that has kept track of bends for years. Look around. Read the rules. See who has done what. It may help you in your assessment of what is good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Donc101 said: Look at the rules on his page. You want to know what is good. I am pointing you in the direction of a page that has kept track of bends for years. Look around. Read the rules. See who has done what. It may help you in your assessment of what is good. David tend to have very hard rules. Maybe Kirill is only counting double wrapping? Your estimations is way different. I still think it's weird that the number one spot on that list is "only" 260 kg. It should be a lot more. Maybe a gold nail braced bend is equal to red nail unbraced if everything is equal, length, padding etc. A leg crush bend should be a lot stronger than a DO bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill_Shuhovtsev Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, Fist of Fury said: David tend to have very hard rules. Maybe Kirill is only counting double wrapping? Your estimations is way different. I still think it's weird that the number one spot on that list is "only" 260 kg. It should be a lot more. Maybe a gold nail braced bend is equal to red nail unbraced if everything is equal, length, padding etc. A leg crush bend should be a lot stronger than a DO bend. I using comfortable wraps for me. Two pairs - one for kink 50mm cordura/firehose (large grain), second for crush 30-40mm firehose (small grain). Classic wraps good for overhand, but don't provide good protection in heavy legcrush. About David "kg" - it his own calibrating system. This section of bending not standardized. Many peoples have calibrate machines and own "kg". So if we want to compare steel, we need do this in one machine and one lenght. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Kirill_Shuhovtsev said: I using comfortable wraps for me. Two pairs - one for kink 50mm cordura/firehose (large grain), second for crush 30-40mm firehose (small grain). Classic wraps good for overhand, but don't provide good protection in heavy legcrush. About David "kg" - it his own calibrating system. This section of bending not standardized. Many peoples have calibrate machines and own "kg". So if we want to compare steel, we need do this in one machine and one lenght. True, I find it very annoying that there's so many different ways of calibrating. I wish there was one standard. However I'm familiar with his ratings. I've bent up to 233 kg (with 7" length) DO on his bars so I know that braced bending record should be more than 260 kg. There has to be a reason it's not higher than that. Maybe I'm missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrido Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 These 260kg bends were part of a steel shredder competiton. They were not really hard, but this bar was the hardest to get offered from David and it was only who can bend it the fastest and there were only one bar for the best five in the running competiton. It was a 6" bend with dhwog pads only braced or unbraced. For example, I bend it unbraced. For the main question here, you can look on the old school braced spike bending list from David Horne. This is a good overview whats good in the braced thing in the length 8-14" with double pads of course. Another good braced bends are things like Gold Nail 6" and below, 12.9 Bolt 6" and below, HRS 12mm, HRS 14mm, CRS 12mm, SS 10mm in the typical spike lengths. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, Horrido said: These 260kg bends were part of a steel shredder competiton. They were not really hard, but this bar was the hardest to get offered from David and it was only who can bend it the fastest and there were only one bar for the best five in the running competiton. It was a 6" bend with dhwog pads only braced or unbraced. For example, I bend it unbraced. For the main question here, you can look on the old school braced spike bending list from David Horne. This is a good overview whats good in the braced thing in the length 8-14" with double pads of course. Another good braced bends are things like Gold Nail 6" and below, 12.9 Bolt 6" and below, HRS 12mm, HRS 14mm, CRS 12mm, SS 10mm in the typical spike lengths. Ok thanks, I remember that challenge now. it wasn't that long ago, only a year ago I think. That's what I thought, numbers didn't seem right based on what I've seen people being able to bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill_Shuhovtsev Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 9 hours ago, Fist of Fury said: True, I find it very annoying that there's so many different ways of calibrating. I wish there was one standard. However I'm familiar with his ratings. I've bent up to 233 kg (with 7" length) DO on his bars so I know that braced bending record should be more than 260 kg. There has to be a reason it's not higher than that. Maybe I'm missing something? Reason #1 is DHWOG rules. Single wraps don't allow good kink in legcrush, because you piercing the brushes and legs. Single wraps can using only in under knee kink. Reason #2 - braced bending not popular like brushes styles. This table only one of the tables with own rules and wraps. You can navigate in steel by the table in my first message. I calibrate more than 70 metall grades and bent most of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Kirill_Shuhovtsev said: Reason #1 is DHWOG rules. Single wraps don't allow good kink in legcrush, because you piercing the brushes and legs. Single wraps can using only in under knee kink. Reason #2 - braced bending not popular like brushes styles. This table only one of the tables with own rules and wraps. You can navigate in steel by the table in my first message. I calibrate more than 70 metall grades and bent most of them. Yes I get it. I never even thought about using single pads for this bending technique, that would hurt like hell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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