richcottrell Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 I just "discovered" ... or at least stumbled upon this video and I got me thinking... and rethinking grip extension. I am curious what smarter people think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiOp3hxJVkw In the beginning of this video, the part where this climber [Eric Hörst] talks about the relationship between the forearm's Extensor muscles and the ones that Contract [the flexors] to make what we call The Pinch Grip. Here Eric mentioned something that was a new idea for me. He refers tho the different arm muscles working together as a "Co-contraction kinetic chain" where the extensors work with the contractors in order to deliver maximal force. He goes on to show how the lower arm muscles works differently then the upper arm's Biceps and Triceps. The point that I felt Eric was talking about differently then my current understanding, was that training the extensors does not just prevent potential grip over fatigue, but that the extensors muscles are a very active muscle group used in most any grip event (except for maybe armwrestling). Here, when I refer to "grip" i am thinking about picking stuff up. Some interesting ideas come at the end of this video, where Eric does what the Gripboard community would call "Wide Pinch" but Eric thinks about these same training exercises as extensor training. I think he said "Open Handed Grip" or something like that, but we are still talking about Wide Pinch Training as is commonly referred on The GripBoard. Now I am thinking about the first time I ever tried to lift a 100 and 150 lb Inch style dumbbell where you attempt to "pre-cock" you wrist so the bell will not straighten your wrist out, and how fruitless that mini wrist flexion helps... and now, after thinking about Eric Horst's exercise demonstration at the beginning of this video and I am thinking "No Wonder Why!" That wrist "pre-cock" potentially takes away much of the other strength in the lower arm. I am not trying to say Eric Horst discovered something NEW and we all need to buy his books and chance everything we do; I only wanted to share his video, as it did trigger a different set of thinking for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 I thought this was commonly known in the grip community, tho surprisingly few climbers are aware of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Callahan Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, Climber028 said: I thought this was commonly known in the grip community, tho surprisingly few climbers are aware of it. Though they may not do it consciously, a lot of climbers do it. It's what's happens when we get tired and "chicken wing": 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) I always assumed this was common knowledge - maybe because I've read all Eric's books etc. Here's one that is a personal theory of mine. Your body will only allow a certain amount of imbalance between opposing muscle groups - say flexors and extensors, If you get too far out of balance - you will get injured. The imbalance will also act as a governor - and will slow (or stop) additional growth. Edited November 24, 2019 by climber511 1 Quote When people used to ask him how it was he became so incredibly strong, it was always the same, "strengthen your mind, the rest will follow". The Mighty Atom Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul. Being prepared for any random task is not the same thing as preparing randomly for any task. Greg Everett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 We already know mechanically that muscle imbalance causes dysfunction. Differential loading of a joint will pull it into a sub-optimal position, then when loaded heavily in this position injury is very likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Yea I think we're saying the same thing. I don't belive there is a magic limit imposed on your muscles, but by being imbalanced you will get injured, then this limits your training. You also can't maximally contract your finger flexors without strong enough extensors to hold the wrist in place, but that same relationship holds true with many other joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climber028 Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 I also don't think any of this actually matters. Everybody I explain anatomy to is stronger than me so ultimately it's just trivia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richcottrell Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 Again: I have never heard anyone doing Wide Pinch Work talk about it as their Extensor Training Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onerepman Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) In the example shown in the video at 2:00, I thought that this was more of active insufficiency rather than your extensors playing a role in the finger flexion. With your wrist drooped over like what he shown, your flexors are too shortened to be able to apply an effective force. Through slight wrist extension, you obtain the ideal length-tension relationship. If however your wrist is fully extended, you're exceed this ideal length-tension relationship and therefore generate submaximal finger flexion. Edited November 24, 2019 by Onerepman Clarification. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wobbler Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Hub seems to work extensors also 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamTGlass Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Rich if you ever invest in a 3”x4” Saxon bar this whole thing will make instant sense to you 1 1 Quote MM4. COC. Hexbastard in every way. Red Nail Roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slazbob Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 12 hours ago, richcottrell said: Again: I have never heard anyone doing Wide Pinch Work talk about it as their Extensor Training Years ago David Horne mentioned his extensors were fried from blob work and I didn’t understand it back then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Callahan Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 21 hours ago, Onerepman said: In the example shown in the video at 2:00, I thought that this was more of active insufficiency rather than your extensors playing a role in the finger flexion. With your wrist drooped over like what he shown, your flexors are too shortened to be able to apply an effective force. Through slight wrist extension, you obtain the ideal length-tension relationship. If however your wrist is fully extended, you're exceed this ideal length-tension relationship and therefore generate submaximal finger flexion. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richcottrell Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 22 hours ago, Onerepman said: In the example shown in the video at 2:00, I thought that this was more of active insufficiency rather than your extensors playing a role in the finger flexion. With your wrist drooped over like what he shown, your flexors are too shortened to be able to apply an effective force. Through slight wrist extension, you obtain the ideal length-tension relationship. If however your wrist is fully extended, you're exceed this ideal length-tension relationship and therefore generate submaximal finger flexion. funny to reread this a few times and then see Jedd posted a video yesterday where he was basically talking about the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKcUsuqb5HA When I was talking about my first time trying to lift the 100# and 150# Inch bells, I was describing my first [and very futile] attempts as myself trying to "pre-cock" my wrist but here Jedd uses the term "goose necking" for the same idea. While he does not mention the Extensors being part of the equation, I am learning more every day. BTW: This whole thread was started after I finally went to the Asian Produce market in South Philly to buy about 20 pounds of Mung Beans so I can finally start training "dirty rice" or the sand bucket; or rice bucket, depending on what you call it... but i am basically trying to train my extensors these days as a more conscious thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richcottrell Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 13 hours ago, AdamTGlass said: Rich if you ever invest in a 3”x4” Saxon bar this whole thing will make instant sense to you When Adam Glass tells you to invest in something, you MUST listen! [and while I am happy to give Richard Sorin my money, my wife will kill me; so I will have to wait till after the holidays to pull this trigger.] That said, I already have the FBBC 2x5" Saxon that I sadly (and stupidly) do not use enough! I will have to start thinking of "Saxon Bar" differently, as while I already felt the difference between 2inch and 3 inch is a HUGE difference; but NOW -- in regards to this conversation -- maybe that wide grip of 3" brings the extensors into the pinch workout, where the 2" does not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onerepman Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, richcottrell said: funny to reread this a few times and then see Jedd posted a video yesterday where he was basically talking about the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKcUsuqb5HA Here's a good photo on what I was saying. Slight extension of the wrist for finger flexion will essentially be #2 on the graph; drooped or fully flexed wrist will be a #1; fully extended wrist will be a #3 or #4. Edited November 25, 2019 by Onerepman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankSobotka Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 This video from Jedd makes too much damn sense to me. For a time I thought I was getting weaker on the WW but maybe I was just engaging my wrist too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcalpine1986 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 This may not be wide pinch but Using the Rolling thunder makes my extensors more sore than direct movements and they have grown since doing them so they must get hit hard. Quote Age: 37 | Ht: 5ft 8.5in | Wt: 168lb __________________________________________ "Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds" - Henry Rollins, Iron and the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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