Contest equipment questions

[climber511]

More spectator friendly.  Even for those of us who love it there isn't much movement.  We appreciate it because we know the difficulty behind each event.

Grippers really suck from a spectator standpoint.  The movement is so small and so far away it's not crowd friendly at all.  They have no idea if it's closed or not.

Euro (sorry to mention it), Flask, pinch in general, one or two hand versions etc.  Better than Grippers but if you aren't into Grip Sport its kind of hard for average people to relate to.

Axle - better from a crowd point of view - something is moving that they understand compared to lifts everyone does in the gym - dead lift.

Medley - probably the best thing we all have for the average spectator.  It's often items they understand from their life maybe - things are moving fast so its not boring - it's well .... interesting.

Odd events - I'm thinking stuff like the sledge lifts, anvils etc.  Again something people can relate to - some movement - funny stress faces being made.

 

[acorn]

16 hours ago, anwnate said:

I've a number of ideas...but the don't all jive with the "easier" or "more interesting to watch."

Crush.  Judging would be so much easier if we had a light up system.  It would be even cooler if the was a mod that work on existing grippers.  Barring that, replacing current grippers with light ups would be fine.  Hell...most of us invested in beta. ..then vhs...then dvds.  So existing grippers will turn into collector's items or  training devices...better that than failing to move forward. 

Plus...a crowd can actually see something light up...so it could be more audience friendly.  Suspense!  Will the light go on?...not, will the ref bear in close then make a signal.   ATM I'm ignoring dyanometers until current issues are cleared up.

Pinch.  Figure out a way to get the best of both worlds.  Adjustability and ease of use.  I've no suggestions in mind...just what I'd like to see happen.

I'd like to see the support aspect of grip move from the Axle...to something both hand size neutral and (frankly) more grip based. 

Two things...I'm health compromised (heart) and have chronic problem (back)...so there is no small amount of self interest involved in finding an alternative to the Axle.  However... I can hold wayyy more as a static hold, than the 350lb PR Lift on the Axle.  Why are we testing overall strength when it's called Grip-sport?

That said...watching Andrew's Axle was ONE of the many highlights of Gripmas in 2015.  Watching someone fling heavy weights off the floor is much more interesting... even awe-inspiring for spectators.  ATM I can't reconcile the two issues.  Additionally. ..that still doesn't address handsize issues.  Could an "Adjustable thickbar sleeve" be created for the traditional Axle event?...AND have the lift be more like a rack pull/hold?  Yup.

 Will it ever happen?  I doubt it...since it seems to be so "prestigious."  Make no mistake though...as Awesome as Durniat is (and yes I understand he's backed off of grip.)...he's not gonna compete on the Axle with very large handed strongmen.  Handsize is a significant advantage for most grip events...I'd like to see as much negated as possible.

Well @acorn, not a ton of suggestions for you...but certainly a grip "perspective." 

 

Thanks for the feedback buddy.

I agree that light up grippers would help judging and I've worked on this concept off and on for maybe 7 years and the last prototype worked pretty well but cost and time wise to make them for individual grippers just would not make sense with that method. I'm working on a new simpler design now that may work better cost and time wise to make. But pretty much all the designs I have come up with would need custom handles to deal with the isolation issue. I've tried to think of a way to do it with existing grippers without modifying the handles majorly and just haven't been able to think of a way to do it that would be robust enough to trust in competition. The knurling will likely destroy conductive tape after a few uses where the handles touch. I've got ideas for other gripper like devices that would be same movement with adjustable loading and easier to setup for say a light up on close. Just haven't had a chance to build prototypes yet. 

I agree, I think a crowd would love more to see on a gripper event. It can be pretty boring to watch cause most people have no frame of reference how hard it is to close a tough gripper. Light up an option, Also thinking video cam connected to big screen an option for bigger events or a gripper like device giving feedback on force to light up or digital scoreboard type gauge, etc. All possibilities.

Pinch. I love my Euro with the mods I have done to it. Changing a width takes literally 10sec or less with practice and it is a single color coded spacer for each width. It did cost a lot more to do it this way though. But if there was enough interest I could get costing that would likely bring the price down a lot with some volume. Is it the only way to test pinch, heck no. There are lots of ways including plates, The Flask, Saxon bars of different widths, etc. With the Euro once the time to change widths is mitigated then the only other major issue left is friction inconsistency due to seasoning. I think that all pinch devices can suffer from this to a degree though so as long as pinch is tested in this way. lifting something that will be an issue. 

Additional thoughts on Pinch. There are other ways to contest it that would be more interesting and maybe mean more to the spectators at a big event. At one of my comps we had a pinch block truck pull up hill in the medley. I was the only one to get it and it wiped me out more than any of the other feats in the medley. Also it looked bad ass. Stuff like Saxon Pinch cleans or snatches also a possibility. I do those as part of my training. Promoters, get creative.

Nate I also have issues with my back that limit my Axle lifts to what I can DL regardless of bar size. Sucks but the back issues are also what drove me to grip competitively versus some other strength sport. I was a college thrower before the injury. I think Axle looks cool and is relevant to the Old Time Strongman history as well so not saying to get rid of the event. There are other options though. Stuff like Crusher style DL etc. At a few of our comps out here I ran a revolving handle farmers walk with 2" revolving handles on custom farmers implements I made. Probably still a few pairs floating around. I'm thinking about making another pair with maybe slightly higher handles or something so its more like a trap bar lockout and run it as revolving handles farmers lift for max weight. I know my best pic on mine was 205 in each hand with the 2" handles and that was tough for me. Something like this would still be tough hand wise but less dependent on back since you are more upright and shorter movement with equal loading vs say a 1H DL. Just my thoughts.

- Aaron

 

 

 

[acorn]

13 minutes ago, climber511 said:

More spectator friendly.  Even for those of us who love it there isn't much movement.  We appreciate it because we know the difficulty behind each event.

Grippers really suck from a spectator standpoint.  The movement is so small and so far away it's not crowd friendly at all.  They have no idea if it's closed or not.

Euro (sorry to mention it), Flask, pinch in general, one or two hand versions etc.  Better than Grippers but if you aren't into Grip Sport its kind of hard for average people to relate to.

Axle - better from a crowd point of view - something is moving that they understand compared to lifts everyone does in the gym - dead lift.

Medley - probably the best thing we all have for the average spectator.  It's often items they understand from their life maybe - things are moving fast so its not boring - it's well .... interesting.

Odd events - I'm thinking stuff like the sledge lifts, anvils etc.  Again something people can relate to - some movement - funny stress faces being made.

 

Yep I agree Chris. Mentioned some of my ideas above to deal with that. Thanks for your feedback.

[acorn]

Thanks everyone, keep the ideas coming. I got to go deal with zesty saturday morning kids for a bit but will be back to respond to more of these later.

- Aaron

[David_wigren]

14 hours ago, climber511 said:

 

5.  I still think Wrist Strength tests are underutilized in competitions here - the Brits are doing better than we have in the past - I like the hammer rotation event being done in Nationals this year.  I'd like to see some sort of Wrist test become more of a standard in Grip Comps.

I thought this event was a great way to measure wrist strength. The problem with most wrist events is that it's to easy to cheat and to hard for the judge to call you out when you cheat it. I felt this event suffered less from that problem. Keep the hand in center of the table. No lifting the hand up from the table, no excessive body lean. And a long pause at each end of the movement to eliminate any bounce or stretch reflex.

[climber511]

1 hour ago, David_wigren said:

I thought this event was a great way to measure wrist strength. The problem with most wrist events is that it's to easy to cheat and to hard for the judge to call you out when you cheat it. I felt this event suffered less from that problem. Keep the hand in center of the table. No lifting the hand up from the table, no excessive body lean. And a long pause at each end of the movement to eliminate any bounce or stretch reflex.

Brutal!  Nice setup - I've only done it on the floor in a Medley setting - this is a lot more strict like a stand alone event should be.

[Squeezus]

1 hour ago, David_wigren said:

I thought this event was a great way to measure wrist strength. The problem with most wrist events is that it's to easy to cheat and to hard for the judge to call you out when you cheat it. I felt this event suffered less from that problem. Keep the hand in center of the table. No lifting the hand up from the table, no excessive body lean. And a long pause at each end of the movement to eliminate any bounce or stretch reflex.

I like this a lot better than the event that is currently lined up for Nationals. It seems safer to increment the weight and work in singles than do a Crossfit style as-many-reps-as-possible. It definitely seems easier to judge as well. 

[acorn]

23 hours ago, KapMan said:

This is easy I think. A 1 or 2 light system (for two lanes) could be used.  I think a contact ring around the handle connected to the light system would be cool. Maybe a bit cumbersome though. The contact sleeve sensor would be where the two ends close ping! a light comes on.

 

The hand neutral thing bugs me a little, whats fair for you definitely isn't fair for someone else I get that part, but everyone should be training different widths anyways IMO. What we could do is use something like the flask and make aluminum face plates for that device and just pin them on using a longer pins. @Squeezus Your thoughts on that?

I agree that there are implements other then the axle for use. FBBC has a whole line of crushers we could choose from, not to mention the old stand by the RT. That being said I suggested to Andrew about making the crushers interchangeable like the country crush handle. By the way your RT farmers walk is simply brilliant! We need more stuff like that, even holds for time on those devices. Maybe one of our tinker bells could make a adjustable thick bar clone? Maybe promoters could consider thinking outside the box as well, Ah la Double Barrel Couple Crush, Ah La RT walks. Stuff like that. I personally enjoy odd object lifting, like the tractor weight at James place or the Dino egg someone brought to the southern squeeze. I feel some events do not need to be from the same selection that is on the leader boards.

 

Thanks for the feedback buddy.

[KapMan]

 

Just now, acorn said:

Thanks for the feedback buddy.

I'm trying

[acorn]

23 hours ago, wobbler said:

I made a button battery led prototype light up "system" (it was really just tape and wires) that works on heavy grips or anything with a painted spring, attach near top of handles. Check handle to handle with a multimeter, if it's not electrically connected it would work. Coc's or most with unpainted springs were connected so it wouldn't work.

If you got fancy you could file one handle, insulate the contact and build back up with something to original size, then rate it.

Also thought about some sort of thin contact paper that would leave a mark when they touched. That would be super easy.

Yep that would work, but I don't think it would be sturdy enough for a contest. Plus the only grippers that have painted springs are the HG's and they really suck ( they wont hold strength levels and get weaker as you use them due to crappy spring wire.)

[acorn]

1 minute ago, KapMan said:

 

I'm trying

Most of us who care are.

[acorn]

23 hours ago, Mikael Siversson said:

Worth keeping in mind perhaps that the introduction of the Euro in the US was simply because the implement had been made standard in the UK and Sweden (and not because everyone in the US instantly started raving about it). There is little suggesting UK, Finland, Russia and Sweden will drop the Euro regardless of what is done in the US (as the support for David Horne and all the work he has done is very strong outside of the US and rightfully so). If you want to compare yourselves against the best in Europe in the pinch you have no choice other than using whatever the rest of the world is using.

 

I'm not suggesting dropping the Euro in favor of other pinch events. I do however think the basic setup that most use for their comps is slow and can be improved and I did significantly improve it's contest usage with mine. I also think there is room for development of other equipment though. This thread was not intended to say that we should scrap what we currently use and come up with newer shinier toys to play with.

- Aaron

[KapMan]

What are your thoughts on the contact electrode ring for grippers?Just a slip on ring click and move on.

[acorn]

22 hours ago, climber511 said:

1.  As you all know I dislike torsion Spring Grippers and have stated the reasons until you'll all sick of listening.  That said a light system would solve at least one of the problems.  Getting rid of the V shape and going to adjustable parallel handles would solve all my other issues.  I still have the grip machine with the cable handle and light system out in the garage - It would be easy enough to make up a higher quality system that could easily be standardized - and you can NOT cheat with the thing!  Setting would be a thing of the past as would any questions about closed or not closed.  A pure crush test.

2.  Pinch - as you know I like the Euro but I have some ideas I may try out in the future.  Maybe interchangeable widths rather than adjustable - I have some thoughts rattling around in my head I need to put in practice when I get some money ahead for steel.  Keeping the Euro look, design, size, material, and tilt ability so that records etc can be maintained but width changes can be almost instantaneous - challenging but possible??  I'm thinking of something  - we'll see.

3.  Axle - how many of you remember the "Fair Bar" idea?  Being in the same boat as Nate with a bad back and heart issues - I'd like to see an alternative to the heavy weights used.  But really all of my experimenting doesn't show that linear correlation between hand size and bar size that I "think" should happen.  Oh sure it happens at the extremes but after that it falls into palm size/ finger length ratios and stuff.  Plus it's a good visual event for spectators.  I guess it's a personal problem I need to figure out.  I know for Gripmas I'm thinking Tips Tester instead or Axle maybe - it's pretty hand size neutral and a good finger strength test - maybe a better pure finger test than Axle is.  It's also a lift that starts out "tall" and takes out the low back issues pretty well.  Gil and I have talked a little about this idea.  Rolling Thunders vary way too much - something like Crushers perhaps but the hand size snake keeps rearing its head still - I haven't had any luck thinking up anything on Fat bar.  the David Horne Adj one hand items are a start but not quite there for me.  Bummer.

4.  I think different promoters have the odd implement thing covered pretty well.  There's all kinds of weird stuff being used here and there - which is fun.

5.  I still think Wrist Strength tests are underutilized in competitions here - the Brits are doing better than we have in the past - I like the hammer rotation event being done in Nationals this year.  I'd like to see some sort of Wrist test become more of a standard in Grip Comps.

I need to take another look at what you came up with that uses the cable Chris. I have thought about using pull cable multiple times and always scrap the idea before building as I worry about it pulling the end off or generating too much friction in the cable guide with higher poundages. Happy to discuss if you have time. Currently have been planning some stuff with hydraulic connection to loading area.

Pinch, have you seen my setup. Mine does one spacer per width and they are color coded. That with pinned inner collars make changes fast and no brainer. Competitor just has to remember what color he or she is pinching at. Takes about 10sec to change the width.

Interesting ideas on the thickbar and wrist tests.

I think that revolving handle farmers handles might fit the bill for some of the stuff you mentioned.

Edited May 28, 2016 by acorn

[JHenze646]

Gripper lights 

What about an extended portion for the light mechanism like your choker setups?

[acorn]

1 minute ago, JHenze646 said:

Gripper lights 

What about an extended portion for the light mechanism like your choker setups?

Interesting idea. Have not considered that. Couple of concerns I would have with something like that would be the athlete potentially using it for additional leverage (slipping pinky off end) and it holding up to the abuse. I'll think on this some and see if I can figure out a way to make it work that would be clean enough.

[Mikael Siversson]

26 minutes ago, acorn said:

I'm not suggesting dropping the Euro in favor of other pinch events. I do however think the basic setup that most use for their comps is slow and can be improved and I did significantly improve it's contest usage with mine. I also think there is room for development of other equipment though. This thread was not intended to say that we should scrap what we currently use and come up with newer shinier toys to play with.

- Aaron

Your set up is indeed very slick. Have you had any further thoughts on your idea of mass producing and selling spacers? Rubber spacers have the disadvantage of being heavy and compressing slightly under load.

[Mikael Siversson]

6 hours ago, Squeezus said:

I like this a lot better than the event that is currently lined up for Nationals. It seems safer to increment the weight and work in singles than do a Crossfit style as-many-reps-as-possible. It definitely seems easier to judge as well. 

It was a great event but in hindsight the implement should have had a thicker handle (around 2''). At 30 mm it is incredibly hard on the hand bones and it killed my crush (and David Wigren's too). I don't see negative effects when I train this with a thicker handle.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Mikael Siversson

[acorn]

2 minutes ago, Mikael Siversson said:

Your set up is indeed very slick. Have you had any further thoughts on your idea of mass producing and selling spacers? Rubber spacers have the disadvantage of being heavy and compressing slightly under load.

I think about it from time to time but haven't gotten any serious quotes. Its messy work to make them here at home like the first set and I spent 20hrs just making the templates and making the first set. It really would require CNC cutting and doing them in batches to make it work cost wise as the raw material for the first set of spacers cost double with shipping than I spent on the initial entire Euro.

[JHenze646]

How did you make your spacers, from existing blanks or poured then machined?