Nags Axle Rules Rewritten

[EricMilfeld]

Please note the clarifications for the official rules. I think some of the judging over the course of NAGS history indicates the rules were not always properly interpreted. I hope the new wording will help to clarify what constitutes a legal pull. Most importantly, a full International Powerlifting Federation style lock-out is required.

http://www.gripsport.org/rules.htm

[Electron]

Good, that permits my oversized hands to be used in a hook grip- You should cover that point as it had been previously stated.

[EricMilfeld]

Good, that permits my oversized hands to be used in a hook grip- You should cover that point as it had been previously stated.

Indeed. Sometimes the obvious can escape us.

[David Horne]

Eric,

This is the rules we have in the UK.

The Deadlift part has always been like a Deadlift done in Powerlifting. If it wouldn't pass in a powerlifting contest, it won't pass in a grip contest either. No hitching and a full-lockout required.

Two Hands Deadlift using a 2" thick barbell - overhand grip
Normal Deadlift rules apply, except the barbell is 2" thick, and both hands have to grasp the bar in an overhand grip (knuckles facing forward). Hook gripping is not permitted. Heels and toes may rise. The lift ends with the referee's signal, and then you must lower the weight under control.

[EricMilfeld]

Eric,

This is the rules we have in the UK.

The Deadlift part has always been like a Deadlift done in Powerlifting. If it wouldn't pass in a powerlifting contest, it won't pass in a grip contest either. No hitching and a full-lockout required.

Two Hands Deadlift using a 2" thick barbell - overhand grip

Normal Deadlift rules apply, except the barbell is 2" thick, and both hands have to grasp the bar in an overhand grip (knuckles facing forward). Hook gripping is not permitted. Heels and toes may rise. The lift ends with the referee's signal, and then you must lower the weight under control.

Nothing wrong with that. The idea with the rewrite was to clearly define key phrases like "under control", "no hitching", etc. Most of us know precisely what these things mean, but all the bases need to be covered for the judge who may not have a powerlifting background or anyone unfamiliar with what constitutes a "full lockout". I wanted to minimize the need for interpretation or judge's discretion. I would hate for a record to get in the books because of poor judging. Hopefully this wording will help to prevent that.

[David Horne]

Yeah good point Eric.

[bwwm]

Clarification question: If the judge signals down, and the lifter maintains contact with both hands on the bar on the way down, is it then considered a good lift? i.e. can the judge state later that the bar was not locked out, even though he gave the down command?

[Jedd Johnson]

In what circumstance would that happen? If the athlete hitches and the judge wants him to terminate the lift because it is disqualified?

[bwwm]

In what circumstance would that happen? If the athlete hitches and the judge wants him to terminate the lift because it is disqualified?

If the judge had second thoughts about the lockout, can they make final judgement on that at the end of the lift or are they bound by the fact that they made the down signal?

[climber511]

Much of this current discussion came about because of my judging at Nationals. I made what were in retrospect some bad calls - there were reasons behind it but they were personal and not germain to the discussion at hand. So we the so called group of five plus a couple other involved parties (judges) have been working behind the scenes to solve any problems and make life easier on both judges and competitors in the future. In my opinion Yes a judge can upon reflection reverse a call - things happen fast - there can be distractions etc. No he can't wait a couple minutes and do it but a few seconds as he replays the lift in his head Yes.

[EricMilfeld]

In what circumstance would that happen? If the athlete hitches and the judge wants him to terminate the lift because it is disqualified?

If the judge had second thoughts about the lockout, can they make final judgement on that at the end of the lift or are they bound by the fact that they made the down signal?

I have never seen, nor heard of this happening in a powerlifting meet. Of course, it is a possibility and may very well have happened. But this is a very good question.

The use of three judges in powerlifting serves to prevent this from being the potential disastrous situation it would be in a grip contest. So, if the judge was to give the down command prematurely (on judge's reflection after the lift) and the gripster responds by lowering the bar under control, what should happen? In general, the judge should always afford the gripster the benefit of the doubt and go with his original call, in all fairness to the athlete. But, let's say the judge develops some sort of nervous tick and his arm just drops to the floor as the lift is only 3/4 complete (lol). Well, in that case I think most would agree it wouldn't be right for the gripster to get credit for a good lift. But he should certainly be allowed an extra attempt, as it was the judge's mistake. I guess this is sort of one of those unavoidable gray areas that can develop in any sport.

[bwwm]

Much of this current discussion came about because of my judging at Nationals. I made what were in retrospect some bad calls - there were reasons behind it but they were personal and not germain to the discussion at hand. So we the so called group of five plus a couple other involved parties (judges) have been working behind the scenes to solve any problems and make life easier on both judges and competitors in the future. In my opinion Yes a judge can upon reflection reverse a call - things happen fast - there can be distractions etc. No he can't wait a couple minutes and do it but a few seconds as he replays the lift in his head Yes.

Chris - I had no issue with any of the calls you made regarding my lifts at Nationals. I think my lifts were pretty clearly good or bad. I just wanted to raise this particular situation as one that might need some discussion around it, so the rules could address it if needed. Thanks again for all your hard work judging at Nationals.

[Mikael Siversson]

Well Chris, this issue was brought up by me already last year (poor judging) but I was told I was just being negative as usual.

[climber511]

Well Chris, this issue was brought up by me already last year (poor judging) but I was told I was just being negative as usual.

Wasn't me last year - this was my first time judging a whole contest - well, half of it anyway. Seriously every sport I know of has judging issues. The refs in professional sports (at least here in the states) are very highly trained and very highly paid - and all now have instant replays from multiple angles simply because things happen. Soccer has riots and fights because of referee calls. I think everyone is trying to do the best they can - and yes mistakes will be made - the goal is to minimize them as best we can by discussion, understanding, and good rules to follow.

[David Horne]

In the past when we have used this event in contests we have used 3 referees.