I Want Functional Strength

[Egolego]

Hey guys. I've been taking a break from training for 2 years and decided to take up strength training again. Last time I quit because I hurt my back doing squats, then had a bike accident and then I lost my job - so it hasn't been the best 2 years of my life. Anyway, the goal with my training this time is to get functional strength. With this I mean strength that's good for stuff you do outside of training, like lifting heavy sacks, uprooting treetrunks, pushing a car that wont start, open rusty truck doors etc.

Now my theory about functional strength is that you need strong fingers and strong back and I was wondering which excersize would be best for that. I used to do wristcurls, rolling thunder, wristroller and axe leverage before. Even though i got stronger on these excersizes I wasn't sure how much of this strength carried over to "real life", mainly because I didn't have any way to measure it. I'm also quite dubious to the CoC crushers, I used them for a couple of weeks to, enough be able to close CoC2, but I could see no increase in functional strength and started to get problem with my elbow.

So my question is what excersizes do you guys think is best for me? I'm thinking for example to change the barbel excersizes with sacks, since it would simulate real life weights more and at the same time train your fingers? I'm open for all suggestions

[Electron]

First-as you've noticed, grippers sure are fun but are not very applicable to the real world...

Also note that olympic bars have a 1.1 inch handle, but not many things you're going to lift in life come with handles. What use does a 500lbs deadlift have when something is too bulky or thick to grasp?

If you want to build functional strength, I suggest you do lots of thickbar work.

I highly recommend you read some books by Brooks Kubik. Start with Dinosaur Training, he outlines many useful exercises that build real power.

These exercises include:

Sandbag press/carry/throw/squat/clean/everything

Thick bar curls/deadlift/press/bench/everything

Barrel press/shouldering/everything

Out of these, I urge you to start training immediately with sandbags(available for $10 on ebay-"military surplus duffel bag") with sand from home depot($4 for 80lbs), as well as a thickbar or at least an olympic bar and thickbar adaptors.(Available on ebay, search Manus grips or Fatgripz)

Once you have the equipment needed, make sure to integrate power cleans, squats, and overhead presses into your program.

Together, these exercises will build you some immense power.

Since you're starting back up into training, make sure to keep it controlled for the first few sessions. Otherwise, you may be doing something your body isn't prepared for. Be sensible but agressive.

[Bearcat 74]

When you lift weights, lift with a 2" axle. If you are using dumbbells get some fat gripz.

[Egolego]

Thanks alot Tentacle, this feels exactly like what I've been looking for

[Electron]

Great, I'm glad I could help.

For more info, check out both my log and Bobby's (mesiphtopheles) log, we both do Brooks Kubik inspired training.

[Mephistopholes]

Great, I'm glad I could help.

For more info, check out both my log and Bobby's (mesiphtopheles) log, we both do Brooks Kubik inspired training.

Yes and yes. Haha

Keg lifting is really fun and will kick your ass, but will definitely get you where you want to be.

Standing Overhead lifting is probably going to develop more functional strength than sitting down and pressing or benching. And push pressing/jerks are great for that.

Thickbar work and pinching of really any sort are great. but grippers do help, I just don't think they should be given the kind of exclusive status in training that a lot of guys give them. I do em at the end of the week.

Find some odd stuff to lift. Like big creek rocks. They're fun, but will also work you unlike anything else.

And go chop some wood.

[climber511]

Probably the best way to get functional strength is to get a job doing that kind of work. Lifting weights is great but work is a whole different thing and the two are hard to compare. Just lift weights in a good all around routine - it sounds as if you simply aren't ready for any specialized program and if you try to go too fast you are likely to become injured again. The best way to have a long (and strong) career is to build a huge base before trying anything fancy. If you hurt your back before while squatting - be especially careful when putting those back into your program - maybe don't even do squats but try something else, maybe front squats, that can be much kinder to your back. Or skip them entirely in the beginning until you get strong enough and flexible enough to do them correctly. You can start with Goblet Squat ala Dan John - go to front squats, overhead squats - then back squats down the road for example. Your goals are everything - is lifting the goal or is the ability to do functional work the goal. Lot's of ways to accomplish that without "weights".

[Egolego]

Thanks for the input Climber. Yes I'm quite afraid of doing squats again I still feel the injury almost every day (its more like a stiffness than pain, as long as I dont aggravate it). At the same time I feel I need to do them eventually since the results can't be compared with anything else, but only after I've strengthened my body. I agree with you that functional strength is probably best achieved from getting a job that is physically hard, but that might not be possible with a deskjob

[wojo]

I don't believe there's any such thing as "functional strength" per se.....that's just a catch phrase being thrown around a lot. There's "strength" and there's "mobility" and there's "conditioning".....and when you combine these three basic elements you become a bad MFer.

Strength is always best developed with your basic compound barbell movements....mainly squat, deadlift, press and bench.

There's tons of exercises and drills to help with mobility....stretching, foam rolling, Defranco's Agile 8 for lower body, etc.

Conditioning is what it is....run some hills, push a prowler, drag a sled, etc.

Just my two cents....I think we tend to overlook these basic truths and over complicate our training.

[Shooter77B50]

Have you ever heard of tgrips

[mightyjoe]

Hey guys. I've been taking a break from training for 2 years and decided to take up strength training again. Last time I quit because I hurt my back doing squats, then had a bike accident and then I lost my job - so it hasn't been the best 2 years of my life. Anyway, the goal with my training this time is to get functional strength. With this I mean strength that's good for stuff you do outside of training, like lifting heavy sacks, uprooting treetrunks, pushing a car that wont start, open rusty truck doors etc.

Now my theory about functional strength is that you need strong fingers and strong back and I was wondering which excersize would be best for that. I used to do wristcurls, rolling thunder, wristroller and axe leverage before. Even though i got stronger on these excersizes I wasn't sure how much of this strength carried over to "real life", mainly because I didn't have any way to measure it. I'm also quite dubious to the CoC crushers, I used them for a couple of weeks to, enough be able to close CoC2, but I could see no increase in functional strength and started to get problem with my elbow.

So my question is what excersizes do you guys think is best for me? I'm thinking for example to change the barbel excersizes with sacks, since it would simulate real life weights more and at the same time train your fingers? I'm open for all suggestions

Here ya go: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down

Very informative advice and suggestions from one of the TOP strength & conditioning coaches in North America!

[Mephistopholes]

Hey guys. I've been taking a break from training for 2 years and decided to take up strength training again. Last time I quit because I hurt my back doing squats, then had a bike accident and then I lost my job - so it hasn't been the best 2 years of my life. Anyway, the goal with my training this time is to get functional strength. With this I mean strength that's good for stuff you do outside of training, like lifting heavy sacks, uprooting treetrunks, pushing a car that wont start, open rusty truck doors etc.

Now my theory about functional strength is that you need strong fingers and strong back and I was wondering which excersize would be best for that. I used to do wristcurls, rolling thunder, wristroller and axe leverage before. Even though i got stronger on these excersizes I wasn't sure how much of this strength carried over to "real life", mainly because I didn't have any way to measure it. I'm also quite dubious to the CoC crushers, I used them for a couple of weeks to, enough be able to close CoC2, but I could see no increase in functional strength and started to get problem with my elbow.

So my question is what excersizes do you guys think is best for me? I'm thinking for example to change the barbel excersizes with sacks, since it would simulate real life weights more and at the same time train your fingers? I'm open for all suggestions

Here ya go: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down

Very informative advice and suggestions from one of the TOP strength & conditioning coaches in North America!

Amen!

[Mike Sharkey]

Not to be a broken record, but a little bit of kettlebell training added in is very useful. Its dealing with weight with force in multiple dimensions, and it has a handle on it, not unlike grocery bags or a suitcase. You also have to deal with the weight over time, carrying it and using your body for rest.

Further, rarely in real life are you expected to lift 500# by yourself. More likely is lifting 60# over and over and over and over again. (think bags of flour or buckets of soy sauce) Just my 2 cents.

[slazbob]

I agree with the keg work. I do it for a living, and its great for overall power and conditioning. The ones with rubber around them are great if you like to toss them around without Breakin' stuff.

A good one for grip would be to get two 1/4 kegs; put them next to each other; with the hole for your hands lined up. Now, pick them both up and walk. They are trying to pull your hand open the whole time. It may be better to use four, so you balance out... And farmer walk them. Maybe use a glove if it bruses your hand.

[wojo]

I read Mike's post above and immediately felt the need to retort, but then I stopped myself and thought of the original question posted in this thread.

I believe in what I wrote in my post 100%.......but the clarification is always that you must have a balance between those three attributes that best serve your specific goal.

Like Mike said, "rarely in real life are you expected to lift 500# by yourself. More likely is lifting 60# over and over and over and over again.". This is true and if you're not training for anything more than being able to lift 60# over and over again (like heavy yard work or something), then you probably don't need to spend hours under the bar working towards a 500# squat. However, if maximum strength is what you were after....nothing takes the place of basic barbell training. Also, if you wanted to become strong enough to lift that same 60# weight for more and more reps before crapping out.....the fastest way to improve would be to increase your maximum strength first.

[Mike Sharkey]

Like Mike said, "rarely in real life are you expected to lift 500# by yourself. More likely is lifting 60# over and over and over and over again.". This is true and if you're not training for anything more than being able to lift 60# over and over again (like heavy yard work or something), then you probably don't need to spend hours under the bar working towards a 500# squat. However, if maximum strength is what you were after....nothing takes the place of basic barbell training. Also, if you wanted to become strong enough to lift that same 60# weight for more and more reps before crapping out.....the fastest way to improve would be to increase your maximum strength first.

I agree with saying the best way to train for maximum strength is barbell training. obviously nothing takes the place of a heavy deadlift. however, i guarantee I can put the 32kg bell overhead way more times than people with much much bigger lifts than me. imo, a variety of types of training are probably good for all around strength.

[Shoggoth]

I always think about when people say they want "functional" strength, what exact functionality are they looking for. Function could be packing groceries into the house, working on a drill floor, shingling a roof, hiking and doing wood samples for the forestry, chucking fish, being able to pack kids through the mall, etc. all of which have different types and degrees of strength and endurance.

Specificity towards your goals ideally doing exactly what you require to perform the task then exercises that best replicate it. Gym time did nothing for getting me stronger for doing chainsaw work 8-10 hours a day but a week of felling I was a helluva lot more "functionally" fit and after a few months it was easy peasy.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Shoggoth

[Egolego]

Thanks guys, alot of good info and ideas. I've always been fascinated by strength and my goal is so see how strong I can become in this life, so I think information is very important to avoid injuries and save time!

[patrickmeniru]

Agree with what's been said above, especially those advocating a generally well rounded programme perhaps with emphasis on thickbar work. Just to add my 2 cents - if you're looking to strengthen your tendons then look into some gymnastic type exercises, I haven't come across anything else that strengthens the elbows like straight arm work and gymnastic exercises are also fantastic for the shoulder girdle. However, it can be tough to mix it in with other training from a recovery standpoint, especially the joint prep - but the mobility stuff from gymnastics is gold, especially the upper body things.

[wojo]

Like Mike said, "rarely in real life are you expected to lift 500# by yourself. More likely is lifting 60# over and over and over and over again.". This is true and if you're not training for anything more than being able to lift 60# over and over again (like heavy yard work or something), then you probably don't need to spend hours under the bar working towards a 500# squat. However, if maximum strength is what you were after....nothing takes the place of basic barbell training. Also, if you wanted to become strong enough to lift that same 60# weight for more and more reps before crapping out.....the fastest way to improve would be to increase your maximum strength first.

I agree with saying the best way to train for maximum strength is barbell training. obviously nothing takes the place of a heavy deadlift. however, i guarantee I can put the 32kg bell overhead way more times than people with much much bigger lifts than me. imo, a variety of types of training are probably good for all around strength.

I look at kettlebell training more as a sport than as an actual tool for building strength. To me, it's more of an expression of the specific skill required to clean and press the implement as well as an expression of the endurance developed in that specific movement to be able to clean and jerk the bell umpteen times in however many minutes....the conditioning required is very high. By definition, that's really more like endurance training and not strength training.

I'm not poo-pooing kettlebell training....the performances are impressive in their own right....I'm just arguing that if someone's primary goal is pure strength development, then barbell training is the clear winner in that regard. The best way I can say it is that barbell training will help improve kettlebell performance, not the other way around.

[Mike Sharkey]

Like Mike said, "rarely in real life are you expected to lift 500# by yourself. More likely is lifting 60# over and over and over and over again.". This is true and if you're not training for anything more than being able to lift 60# over and over again (like heavy yard work or something), then you probably don't need to spend hours under the bar working towards a 500# squat. However, if maximum strength is what you were after....nothing takes the place of basic barbell training. Also, if you wanted to become strong enough to lift that same 60# weight for more and more reps before crapping out.....the fastest way to improve would be to increase your maximum strength first.

I agree with saying the best way to train for maximum strength is barbell training. obviously nothing takes the place of a heavy deadlift. however, i guarantee I can put the 32kg bell overhead way more times than people with much much bigger lifts than me. imo, a variety of types of training are probably good for all around strength.

I look at kettlebell training more as a sport than as an actual tool for building strength. To me, it's more of an expression of the specific skill required to clean and press the implement as well as an expression of the endurance developed in that specific movement to be able to clean and jerk the bell umpteen times in however many minutes....the conditioning required is very high. By definition, that's really more like endurance training and not strength training.

I'm not poo-pooing kettlebell training....the performances are impressive in their own right....I'm just arguing that if someone's primary goal is pure strength development, then barbell training is the clear winner in that regard. The best way I can say it is that barbell training will help improve kettlebell performance, not the other way around.

well.....

it was not my intention in any way to get into an internet debate. first let me say, Wojo, I like you and respect you and we all know you are crazy strong. that being said, your assertions about kettlebell lifting are pretty much 180 degrees false. most KB athletes do very little barbell training, as it is a completely different muscle process then the ones the use. the main exercise done with a barbell is jump squats that involve only a small dip and are designed to make the jerk feel lighter.

if what you said was true, than a 500# deadlifter would easily lift the 32's with ease, but this is not the case. i suspect you have never done a 10 minute 2 bell long cycle or you would know what I'm talking about (and I in no way mean any disrespect - if you have than scratch this).

most high level lifters (men) have a DL - generally without training it - in and around 500#.

here is Denisov doing a very ugly DL after just beginning training for it:

I hope we can agree this is an extremely ugly lift and probably not something trained for years.

alternately, here is Sarah Nelson:

I would challenge anyone on this board to replicate her performance.

[BenMorrissey]

In reply to the above, I would say that that is somewhat illogical.

If you train one way, and not another, then it would be unsurprising to find out that you lack in the discipline you have not trained. For instance, if you're incredible as closing grippers, you shouldn't just assume that you're going to be fantastic at bending straight away.

I'm not saying that there is no crossover, merely that in order to perform movements efficiently, they need to be learnt. Ironing out form will increase any non-lifter's strength by a considerable margin (i.e. 'noob gains').

In this regard I also think it is illogical to say that one is better than the other. Very rarely in real life is one afforded the opportunity to carry out these movements with perfect form. I work as a porter for a removals firm during the summer, and sometimes I have to lift things like dishwashers by myself. I can't bend my legs, so I use my back to pick it up. The result? Improved deadlift numbers. And yet I still can't press 28kg kettlebells.

[Mike Sharkey]

Well, actually, I think this brings up an interesting topic: What is strength and how do you define it?

[Chez]

Well, actually, I think this brings up an interesting topic: What is strength and how do you define it?

There are so many forms of strength. I say train what you love. We all have different goals. No one can be elite at all forms of strength.

[wojo]

Like Mike said, "rarely in real life are you expected to lift 500# by yourself. More likely is lifting 60# over and over and over and over again.". This is true and if you're not training for anything more than being able to lift 60# over and over again (like heavy yard work or something), then you probably don't need to spend hours under the bar working towards a 500# squat. However, if maximum strength is what you were after....nothing takes the place of basic barbell training. Also, if you wanted to become strong enough to lift that same 60# weight for more and more reps before crapping out.....the fastest way to improve would be to increase your maximum strength first.

I agree with saying the best way to train for maximum strength is barbell training. obviously nothing takes the place of a heavy deadlift. however, i guarantee I can put the 32kg bell overhead way more times than people with much much bigger lifts than me. imo, a variety of types of training are probably good for all around strength.

I look at kettlebell training more as a sport than as an actual tool for building strength. To me, it's more of an expression of the specific skill required to clean and press the implement as well as an expression of the endurance developed in that specific movement to be able to clean and jerk the bell umpteen times in however many minutes....the conditioning required is very high. By definition, that's really more like endurance training and not strength training.

I'm not poo-pooing kettlebell training....the performances are impressive in their own right....I'm just arguing that if someone's primary goal is pure strength development, then barbell training is the clear winner in that regard. The best way I can say it is that barbell training will help improve kettlebell performance, not the other way around.

well.....

it was not my intention in any way to get into an internet debate. first let me say, Wojo, I like you and respect you and we all know you are crazy strong. that being said, your assertions about kettlebell lifting are pretty much 180 degrees false. most KB athletes do very little barbell training, as it is a completely different muscle process then the ones the use. the main exercise done with a barbell is jump squats that involve only a small dip and are designed to make the jerk feel lighter.

if what you said was true, than a 500# deadlifter would easily lift the 32's with ease, but this is not the case. i suspect you have never done a 10 minute 2 bell long cycle or you would know what I'm talking about (and I in no way mean any disrespect - if you have than scratch this).

most high level lifters (men) have a DL - generally without training it - in and around 500#.

here is Denisov doing a very ugly DL after just beginning training for it:

I hope we can agree this is an extremely ugly lift and probably not something trained for years.

alternately, here is Sarah Nelson:

I would challenge anyone on this board to replicate her performance.

I respect you too brother.....and I appreciate your views and passion for kettlebell training. I just happen to feel differently about its application, so I figured it would make for a healthy and friendly discussion. Also, I wasn’t trying to single you out or anything…just responding openly about kettlebell training in general because I’ve had similar discussions before with other people.

Having said that, I'm going to continue beating a dead horse for a moment.

The quality of strength I keep referring to in my posts is “maximal strength”….like the maximum voluntary force a group of muscles can produce against an external load…..like pulling a max deadlift for example.

Let’s take the video of Sarah Nelson. I lost count of how many times she cleaned and jerked the bell in 4 minutes, but it was a lot.

The fact that she can continue to lift this same weight over and over again for 4 minutes means that by definition she is using an extremely sub-maximal weight. A weight that light is simply not heavy enough to develop maximal strength or explosiveness….it just can’t, it’s simply too light.

If someone’s goal is to become extremely well-conditioned, then I can see how kettlebell training will totally kick your ass in that regard and accomplish that for you.

However, lifting a sub-maximal load for extremely high repetitions simply cannot and will not develop maximal strength. This is the point I’ve been trying to make.