Gripper42004 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Is there a feat in the world that you dont believe? I'm not sure I believe H. Goerner's one hand dead lift on a barbell of over 700lbs... If he could do that much on a barbell he should have been able to do atleast 1000lbs. or more maybe, with the weight on a loading pin.I havent heard anything about him lifting that way.But I did read about him lifting a block of sand-stone with a handle. Any input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Goerner's One hand lifts seem unlikely, especially given as he is credited with a mere (hah!!) 250kg (551lbs) in several sources, written way after he had finished lifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Funny post Tommy since you expect all of us to believe your feat of the week (seems like this) without seeing it in person so why do you of all people question Goerner's lift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gripster Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 After seeing Tommy on video closing the #3 for 10 repsfull reps I might add,I don't think many people will doubt what he claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Crusher Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Goerner's feats were well documented, and the man was a complete powerhouse. I know Richard Sorin (1st CoC) would have an opinion on this since he thinks very highly of Goerner. I believe Goerner did his 727 one handed deadlift. I am just an average guy who has done this lift on a few occasions, and have done a 496 one handed deadlift on a farmers bar (I do not have a picture of that, before anybody asks). A 727 one handed deadlift for a man with Goerner's grip and overall body strength would translate into roughly an 800 pound deadlift, in my humble opinion, and Goerner's best deadlift was 793 pounds, if I recall correctly. If anybody has seriously given this lift a try, they would be surprised at how close they could come to their two handed deadlift. After all, even though you are only holding onto the bar with one hand, you are still using your entire body to lift the bar, so you can come pretty close (85%-90%) to your two handed lift. Tommy, if I remember correctly, you claimed a 312 pound lift on a 2 3/8" diameter bar, so using two hands in an overhand position, using your calculations, this would represent at least a 440 pound overhand deadlift on a 2 3/8" diameter bar. Can you do this? That would be well over 2.5 times bodyweight for you, and that would impress me fer sure. Tommy, if all the lifts you claim are real, I for one would love to see them. Why not come to the AOBS and show us what you can do? Bring the #3 gripper that you used in your video, rep it 10 times for us, then let us have a crack at it. Gripster, before you chime in and say something about another Grip Board member griping because he can't do something that somebody else is claiming, this is not my intention. I harbor a healthy level of skepticism, and even though pictures and videos are nice, I prefer to see something done in person and verify it myself, or have it verified by somebody who knows what they are observing. MANY people doubt Joe Kinney closed the #4, even though he sells video that shows him closing and grinding it. I believe he closed it, but the missing piece of the puzzle for most people is that he did not have a witness who knows how hard a #4 gripper SHOULD feel. Just my two cents, and enough for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Geez, Steve.... tell us how you really feel!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 My humble 2 cents on all of this: First off-I have done a 1 handed deadlift on a PDA farmer and handle. my best pull was 475-pounds and it only came up a few inches. I agree with 3crusher as my best deadlift to date at my current 198 bodyweight is 635-so in the scheme of things, I am about 25 pounds off from 80% of my best. Second-Tommy does have some outlandish claims from time to time. BUT-he has agreed to come and compete at my contest which tells me a few things. He is either able to do the feats he claims he can, or he is crazy . I am sure he is well aware of the other 11 guys reading this board, seeing his strength claims, and expecting him to put up. In my mind-Tommy must be able to walk the walk, or he wouldnt even bother to show at a contest. And-he has told me he will close my BBSE, my #4, and lift my Blob. That is big talk for someone who is all show-dont you think? I think Tommy may surprise a number of people-and I can't wait! I am the opposite of 3crusher-I tend to believe what I see in pictures and videos. Especially from people who are willing to come and put it on the line in a contest! Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 There are plenty of other claims Tommy has made. More power to him for sure if they are indeed true! I was just pointing out how ironic it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 To all, Firstly, I hope Tommy really can produce the goods on the day as I love seeing quality feats of strength. I want to compete against the best and I hope they are all there at Rick's contest. I also look forward to meeting them and chilling after the event. Secondly, Goerner's feats are very well documented. I have many accounts from newspapers, magazines and books. In fact a recent article I researched and wrote for IronGrip mag was on Goerner's visit to Britain. Remember that you cannot always produce your all-time best lifts all the time. Who can? Can anyone at the drop of a hat do their best bench, etc. Goerner did pull 600lb one handed on an olympic bar whilst in Britain under the strict BAWLA rules. I'd say he definitely pulled the 727lb, but maybe he only did it once, who knows. Thirdly, My best One Hand Deadlift with an olympic bar is 220k(485lb) [i've pulled 235k (518lb) to near completion] and I haven't got the strongest back in the world, and I actually run out of back before it is a problem to my hand. Wade, I feel your brother Brad could have a real chance at this record if his biceps were fine. He has the grip and is a big deadlifter. What do you think? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I don't find Goerners lift hard to believe at all.Very do able for a good grip and a good back.I'm actually suprised this lift has stood as a record so long. I would agree with David -that Brad would be a good candidate for the lift and so would Mark Henry.How about Gary Frank...not known for his grip but his fists looks like a Briggs and Statton lawnmower engine.And he has no problem holding on to 930 plus.Kind of a small guy but Ed Coan with his Short torso big hands(he has huge hands for a little guy) and long arms wouldn't have far to pull it? I have access to Iron History so I'm not trying to free load.But my computer is a dog and i don't want to have to go look around.SOOOO....?? How exactly was Goerners deadlift lift done? I don't find Tommy's claims hard to believe either.I guess he has presented some photos and i guess others have seen even more than what is available on the forum? What would he have to gain? However...just because this lift is VERY interesting to me I would like to see the pic of the 312 with a 2 3/8" bar...when and IF he does it again.(i think WELL over 400# should be possible on this lift ...with the right athlete doin the lifting) 312#is more than I do and Tommy's a smaller guy-and i outweigh him by about 75 or 80lbs?Very!!! impressive and a photo would do...I can't watch all these new fangled videos anyway. Again?GOERNERS dead lift?HOW IS THE LIFT PERFORMED(of course..the 700 plus isn't going to happen... God i hope not)We'll all try it on monday for Yucks and giggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 BTW Tommy...I am just interested in SEEING a pic of the lift because it is one of MY favorite lifts.You have nothing to prove to me dude. Your Rolling thunder must be up around or over 215?just a guesstimate.There is a little crossover?...just the Thunder is a slippery-rolly -polly-obstinate son of a gun.... Hope my post didn't come across the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 There is no claim for an official one hand deadlift for Goerner of 727.50 lbs- that was an unofficial lift. Was not his official lift 663.5 lbs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gripper42004 Posted April 11, 2003 Author Share Posted April 11, 2003 My one hand dead lift was with IM loading pin & a chain going through a pipe so it didnt revolve. To lock it out I only had to go up about 6in.... But 312lbs. on a 2 3/8in. handle at a body weight of 160lbs. is good for me. I havent been able to do any lifting since november 2003 cause of surgery,I've lost a lot of strength & 25lbs. I never got a pic of it & I'm not worried about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 I forgot you weighed 160..i outweigh you by 108lbs.Sorry to hear that you have lost some strength and weight.I am-as i type-eating a large all meat Pizza from Dominoes...thin crust..I'm watching my carbs. Eat Big.Train big.Get big. Excellent lift.....especially at 160! We use a 2 3/8" solid handle,identical dimensions of the IM Rolling Thunder,carabiner and the IM loading pin..no chain though. Anybody else have some good poundages on the solid handle,2 3/8"lift? Any photos of ANYONE doing this lift in the gallery or on the internet somewhere? Anybody know how Goerner did this lift?Straddle a bar?To the side like a farmers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harlan Jacobs Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Never beleve anything you hear,and half of what you see ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Gillingham Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 David, I can't even fathom what kind of back strain would come along with one hand deadlifting 700 ! I don't think Brad or I will be doing it any time soon. One thing that was always apparent with the old guys was their thick waistlines. Must have had somthing to do with all the one handed lifts?? Wade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 As i thought more about the Goerner deadlift-and assuming its out to the side like a farmers walk?????-(still not sure how this lift IS 'properly'done?? )But I think a guy with a short Torso and long arms(which is good deadlifting structure anyway)PLUS relatively short in stature would have a heck of an advantage with the 1 arm dead??.Coan or a guy built like that old time power lifter Vince Anello come to mind. Not saying either(in their prime)could do it but that sort of structure for this 'Goerner 1 arm dead lift' seems to be ideal .There are some big deadlifters out there. I think a while back we figured 3 or 4 guys hit 900 plus in the last 12 to 18 months?Plus more over 850# than ever?But......... lower to the ground(short stature) might REALLY help with the one arm version??? We do a lot of heavy ONE arm 'deadlift type' lifts in front: 2 3/8 'non rolling'thick bar,eagle loops,IM Rolling Thunder,Ring lifts etc. but they are all out in front....and due to the varying apparatus there IS varying(and shorter)ranges of motion than with an O-bar....hhmmm?Last but not least...IS that what Goerner reportedly did...a deadlift with an Olympic bar to the side?AND 663.5 is the ACTUAL number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 I've done 440 at an Iron Grip comp and 447 with a strap using a RT handle in my local gym (did 427 with a strap at the Luton seminar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Yes, I think I may have been confused - I think the highest official claim I have seen as around 300kg and not 250... In any case, to anyone who has done some research into Goerner's lift, when was the earliest claim of the 727lbs? In any case, with several one-hand lifts in the high 400's (and only one - David's - seems to have been done on an Olympic bar), that's still a long way from 727lb. David has pulled more than 727 with one hand so that weight can be held - not saying it can't have been done, but still - and please remember than Goerner is my favourite lifter from that period.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Chris, Yes you are right that weight can be held, as I did it in the one hand lift (not a deadlift though, just a short range partial). This is also the same aparatus that mobster did his 400lb on. A full range deadlift with an olympic bar as Goerner did is a whole different ballpark. And as Wade says, a strong torso is required. His official lift was 663.5 lb, I don't kow the date off hand without checking. Goerner performed his one hand deadlift with the bar in front of his body, but you also can straddle it under the rules. Personally I think this and his unofficial lift can be beaten by a modern strongman with great back and grip, and the ability to use a hook grip. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 GOERNER the MIGHTY is being presented one chapter at a time at ironhistory.com (for those who have not seen the book). We are now at chapter 3. Dozens and dozens of lifts/dates/poundages all presented, and quite frankly, if I did not have the book, I would join cyberpump just for the chance to study it and get some clarifications. I have not checked, but suspect it would cost at least $10 to buy the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Crusher Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Rick, I would love to believe everything I see in pictures and videos, but I just can't, unless I either trust the source, absolutely know the equipment has not been tampered with, or there were no false aids used in lifting (such as using tacky to lift a blob). I hope Tommy shows up at your contest and does well. If he does not show up, or does show up and can't even close your #3 gripper, for example, then all his talking will not be backed up. I hope for his sake that he walks the walk after talking the talk. Rick, I would love to come to your competition, but it is not possible at that time of year for me due to work demands. Even though I have never competed, I have "put it on the line" many times, in front of quite a few credible witnesses (Randy Strossen, Kim Wood, and Ken Leistner to name a few) and fellow Grip Board members (Richard Sorin, Pat Povilaitis, Heath Sexton, Tom Black, etc.). I do not feel very comfortable talking about my own achievements, and only mention numbers if trying to illustrate a point. I do hope to enter a competition one day, but that is not my sole point of training. It is for my own enjoyment and personal satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 I think that Brent Mikesell might do very well at this lift. He has suffered in the deadlift in competition due to his missing fingers, but with one hand? He is a COC after all. Another name to add to the list - Andy Bolton... All this talk is pretty meaningless unless someone actually tries it, but it is still very good fun!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Even though I have never competed, I have "put it on the line" many times, in front of quite a few credible witnesses (Randy Strossen, Kim Wood, and Ken Leistner to name a few) and fellow Grip Board members (Richard Sorin, Pat Povilaitis, Heath Sexton, Tom Black, etc.). Add to that list Ron Mazza, Eric Fitzsimmons, Bob Bollenbach etc. etc. None other that Dr. Ken called 3crusher a "strong mother****er", after putting him through the paces numerous times. I have witnessed his one hand deadlifts, and also a near miss with 504lbs after a four hour torture session. He's good for much more IMO. He is a strong you know what, and I know is uncomfortable discussing his accomplishments, preferring to show up wherever and whenever he can and bringing all he's got. That's where the Gripboard is different than other BS forums, ya gotta prove what you can do. I echo his sentiment that I hope Tommy shows up at Rick's contest and does well. I do find it a bit curious that he's been unable to do much of anything since his surgery and has lost strength but mysteriously keeps making progress on the #4. Speaking for myself, I feel #4 work all the way up my arm into the shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 3crusher. In no way was what I wrote meant to be a dig on you. And in no way do I think by not coming to the contest people are just ducking competition-for some it is far to long to travel, for others work gets in the way. I understand completely. What my post meant was Tommy must be able to bring the goods or he wouldn't come to a contest that is going to have guys that can call him out on his lies. I am aware that pics and video can be faked-but I have seen a pic of how close Tommy is on the #4. If the pic is authentic-then he should be closing it with ease come September. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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