Help Me With Gripsport.org Page

[Jedd Johnson]

Hi everyone. I have some time set up today to work on the GripSport.org site.

I was wondering if you could send me details as to any contests you know of that will be run here in North America, and if you could paste the following info here on this thread. This will really help me out a lot.

This is the format that I need, please:

Date:

Promoter(s):

Location:

Entry Form and Info: Insert Link to COntest, whether on a website, Facebook, or here at the GripBoard.

Also, if you see anything else that needs added or updated let me know. I'd like to get as much done today as possible.

Thanks again everyone.

Jedd

[Hubgeezer]

It looks like only certain contests are recognized by GripSport. To pick one specific one, Big Rich's DO Axle pull is not on the list. I imagine there may be reasons explained on the website, but I don't think I caught them.

[barbe705]

like you said. big rich's pull. not a contest. also not announced with ennough notice.

It looks like only certain contests are recognized by GripSport. To pick one specific one, Big Rich's DO Axle pull is not on the list. I imagine there may be reasons explained on the website, but I don't think I caught them.

[Jedd Johnson]

Mike, right now, NOTHING for this year is on the site, so Rich's nor anyone else's contest on the list.

That is why i was asking for help in rounding up all the info.

For sanctioning, it is a pretty easy process.

30-days minimum prior notice through an email to me or posted on this or David's site.

For first-time promoters, I generally email, PM or phone with them to get other details ironed out.

[acorn]

There were a number of great performances in comps last year not on the list. Mostly due to the use of Last Man standing format instead of 4 attempts max - rising bar in those contests. Other things like unrated grippers, unrated plates, incorrect contest format, not enough time minimum notice, etc are contributing factors to not getting performaces on the lists.

- Aaron

[Hubgeezer]

I was never a big "Star Trek" fan. But I remember and loved the episode where Captain Kirk was playing "Fizzbin" with the evil aliens. It was a card game where he was making things up on the fly, doing it with a straight face, while the evil aliens were more than a little confused. Kirk, naturally, outwitted the aliens.

I know that these rules are not made up on the fly, but I do feel like I am playing Fizzbin

Are the various rules, including what has been mentioned here, posted?

Let's take Mark Felix's Silver Bullet squeeze. Plenty of notice, not a last man standing event, etc. It is just missing because Jedd was not aware of it? But Rich's pull in Richard's contest does not count, because it wasn't really a contest? Or it was a contest that was not sanctioned? Or it could have been sanctioned if there was enough notice? I don't say these things to be negative, honest. But I really do feel like Captain Kirk is handing me the cards and telling me what I got

[climber511]

Mike - like any organization - there are certain hoops one has to jump through if you want recognized by that organization and to have your lifts included on their list. It may not be that the lift itself isn't a good lift because many are - but good lifts where the rules of the organization you want to be included in aren't followed simply will not be included in that organizations record list - not just for Grip Sport but for all sports. The various PL groups do not recognize records set in other organizations contests - the lifts still took place - but outside a competition sanctioned by them. Closing a brand new out of the package COC #3 with a CCS in a Grip Sport Contest isn't going to get me on the IM list for example as not all IMs rules were followed - the close is still good - but not for IM - same thing here is all. I can't answer the why for each situation out there but I will guess all the things were not done to meet the Grip Sport rule set.

[acorn]

Here is a link to the download thread for the IGC Technical Rules Guide: http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=39253

btw that thread or one like it should be pinned for easy access.

- Aaron

Edited January 3, 2013 by acorn

[Jedd Johnson]

I was never a big "Star Trek" fan. But I remember and loved the episode where Captain Kirk was playing "Fizzbin" with the evil aliens. It was a card game where he was making things up on the fly, doing it with a straight face, while the evil aliens were more than a little confused. Kirk, naturally, outwitted the aliens.

I know that these rules are not made up on the fly, but I do feel like I am playing Fizzbin

Are the various rules, including what has been mentioned here, posted?

Let's take Mark Felix's Silver Bullet squeeze. Plenty of notice, not a last man standing event, etc. It is just missing because Jedd was not aware of it? But Rich's pull in Richard's contest does not count, because it wasn't really a contest? Or it was a contest that was not sanctioned? Or it could have been sanctioned if there was enough notice? I don't say these things to be negative, honest. But I really do feel like Captain Kirk is handing me the cards and telling me what I got

You and I are talking about two different things. I am looking to add contests to the 2013 calendar. It sounds like you are referring to lifts and contests that took place last year. That is why I posted a format for the contests that are schedules, so I could easily put them on the calendar.

I am not sure what comp Mark Felix's lift was in. Was it in Odd's? If that is the case, I put that comp up on the page. The lifts we recognize as an org would have counted as qualifiers for Nationals, but not for the records list that Aaron designed because they are not done under the right rules sets.

As far as Rich's lift. What contest are you talking about? He is the recognized record holder in the lift.

Please clarify some of the questions and instances you are pointing to, and I'll be glad to answer them. But calling this whole operation a "make the rules up as you go" kind of operation is an insult.

[EricMilfeld]

Here is a link to the download thread for the IGC Technical Rules Guide: http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=39253

btw that thread or one like it should be pinned for easy access.

- Aaron

Thanks, Aaron. I just pinned it.

[Jedd Johnson]

I think i got most of them. If Your contest is not listed on the Grip Sport page, send me a PM or email me and I will get it added when I can.

[Hubgeezer]

Maybe there are multiple topics discussed in this thread.

Here is one issue, and only one.

Link to Gripsport on DO Axle:

http://www.gripsport.org/lists.php?list=1&gender=1&event=5&country=all&measurement=

Is Rich not on the list because it is only 2012 performances on the list? Or, is Rich not on the list because, as Brent said, it was not a contest, or it was not announced far enough in advance? Jedd said he was the recognized world record holder. Both statements on the same thread. You shouldn't get insulted, I just don't get it. And, Fizzbin was what it reminded me of.

I understand that many guys have worked lots of hours, for no pay, no recognition, no appreciation. In just the last 24 hours have I started looking at the performances on the website, and it appears that I don't understand what I am looking at.

[climber511]

Maybe there are multiple topics discussed in this thread.

Here is one issue, and only one.

Link to Gripsport on DO Axle:

http://www.gripsport.org/lists.php?list=1&gender=1&event=5&country=all&measurement=

Is Rich not on the list because it is only 2012 performances on the list? Or, is Rich not on the list because, as Brent said, it was not a contest, or it was not announced far enough in advance? Jedd said he was the recognized world record holder. Both statements on the same thread. You shouldn't get insulted, I just don't get it. And, Fizzbin was what it reminded me of.

I understand that many guys have worked lots of hours, for no pay, no recognition, no appreciation. In just the last 24 hours have I started looking at the performances on the website, and it appears that I don't understand what I am looking at.

All those number things usually confuse accountants

[acorn]

The decision was made when initiating the creation of the lists to include performances going forth from the creation of the IGC committee as long as they conformed to the rules we came up with as well as some performances that were to be grandfathered in such as the existing 2 hand pinch list. The grandfathered in performances were done so because we have been running the 2HP with unchanged rules and accurately weighed plates, etc requirements for years. The process to determine who was going to come up with the IGC board members and voting on them, etc happened in mid to late 2011 if I remember right. We worked on the Rules and I built the lists from beginning of 2012 to Sept 2012. The comp that Rich did the 502 Axle DL was in Mid 2010 and predates this. I didn't see any specific details in the thread I just dug up on accurately weighed plates, or the format the event was run in. So I can't add the performance to the list if I can't verify that the lift was performed in a comparable manner to other performances on the list. My own 400+# Best ever DL was done in a comp that same year and is not on the list because I cannot verify whether the plates were accurately weighed or not. It was not standard practice yet to use accurately weighed plates for events such as Axle DL or Vbar in comps previous to when we started sorting out the rules. 2HP yes, other events were pretty variable. Does this make more sense or are you still confused.

- Aaron

[Hubgeezer]

Am I still confused? Maybe. I understand the whole "two hand pinch" list. But the 1 inch vbar was monitored as much as the two hand was up to 2007.
There was a breakdown after that (Mikael stepping back), and then periods of time not being contested.

But I think I understand the "Rich" thing. I have to note that it is still considered by most to be the Record, even though it may not be the record.

Okay, question and another question. Subject: Mark Felix in the Viking Vise Grip Challenge in Los Angeles, January, 2012. It was the debut of the Silver Bullet, and his performance was the only recognized world record. It was the one to beat. Not on list. Oversight? Or some other technicality?

The Gripsport rules say "contests should be advertised at least 30 days in advance of the contest date via" David Horne's World of Grip forum (a very "closed forum"), the Gripboard forum, or North American Grip Sport site, and it also lists another David Horne website. If someone like me, or Andrew Durniat (both of whom have done so) links an IronMind Website announcement to the Gripboard, does that mean it is advertised or not? That was certainly done for the Silver Bullet in January 2012.

Thanks for posting the handbook/technical rules guide.

[Jedd Johnson]

Maybe there are multiple topics discussed in this thread.

Here is one issue, and only one.

Link to Gripsport on DO Axle:

http://www.gripsport.org/lists.php?list=1&gender=1&event=5&country=all&measurement=

Is Rich not on the list because it is only 2012 performances on the list? Or, is Rich not on the list because, as Brent said, it was not a contest, or it was not announced far enough in advance? Jedd said he was the recognized world record holder. Both statements on the same thread. You shouldn't get insulted, I just don't get it. And, Fizzbin was what it reminded me of.

I understand that many guys have worked lots of hours, for no pay, no recognition, no appreciation. In just the last 24 hours have I started looking at the performances on the website, and it appears that I don't understand what I am looking at.

What it looks like to me is that those results were missed during our data collection phase. We were going by memory of competitions. Aaron made a post asking for past promoters to verify their contest fell in line and I am assuming that no one contacted him regarding the lifts in that contest.

[Jedd Johnson]

But I think I understand the "Rich" thing. I have to note that it is still considered by most to be the Record, even though it may not be the record.

I consider it the record. If Zach Coulter can verify that the contest meets the requirements, then it can be added to the list once results are sent to us.

Okay, question and another question. Subject: Mark Felix in the Viking Vise Grip Challenge in Los Angeles, January, 2012. It was the debut of the Silver Bullet, and his performance was the only recognized world record. It was the one to beat. Not on list. Oversight? Or some other technicality?

Not every single lift ever done in a comp is included on the site. Our group has never even discussed the Silver Bullet Hold, as far as I can remember. It seems like a tough event to me, as any old #3 gripper can be used. So it is tough to compare with other events, to be honest. Not sure what else to say about this one.

The Gripsport rules say "contests should be advertised at least 30 days in advance of the contest date via" David Horne's World of Grip forum (a very "closed forum"), the Gripboard forum, or North American Grip Sport site, and it also lists another David Horne website. If someone like me, or Andrew Durniat (both of whom have done so) links an IronMind Website announcement to the Gripboard, does that mean it is advertised or not? That was certainly done for the Silver Bullet in January 2012.

No that would not count as an announcement. The thinking here is that we have several avenues to report a contest. In my mind, anyone who wants to run a competition will either already be on the forums mentioned, know of the Grip Sport site, know one of the IGC members, or know one of the main people that help out with NAGS, so it is very easy to get the sanctioning process started.

Thanks for posting the handbook/technical rules guide.

You're welcome. That's actually been posted for a while, but we missed pinning it and I failed to put it up on the GripSport site.

[barbe705]

mike, when you asked about Rich the first time I thought you meant the upcoming exhibition that Richard posted about earlier this week. I thought you were refering to this years calendar not the results section. sorry to add confusion.

[Hubgeezer]

mike, when you asked about Rich the first time I thought you meant the upcoming exhibition that Richard posted about earlier this week. I thought you were refering to this years calendar not the results section. sorry to add confusion.

Okay, yeah, big difference.

Thanks for answering my questions guys.

[climber511]

Grip Sport Records – just my two cents

Grip Sport is not an actual Organization at this point. No by laws, no true “Rule” book as such voted on an accepted by the members (no members), no officers, no dues structure, no paid judges, or even trained judges. No legal documents drawn up, no insurance furnished by the organization, no incorporation protection of assets, heck no assets, etc. Contests have been held for years now and records loosely kept on the Grip Board Forum in the form of Top 50 lists and “Feats of Strength” lists. And all was basically well. People seemed to recognize that that sport was very informal and records were also. People outside our little group didn’t know or care about our lists or claims that a particular lift was called a World Record.

But eventually a so called “Group of Five” was formed at the request of the forum as it was becoming obvious that some small amount of structure might be a good thing. After much discussion the “rule set” you see was arrived at – purposely keep quite simple. I personally feel it will have to evolve into something much bigger and much stricter over time for reasons that become more obvious all the time. I used to wonder why the rule books for Olympic Lifting and other sports were so long and why they were enforced so anally but now I know. Everyone wants to”do their own thing” but then also want it accepted into our records. Until recently I don’t think anyone outside our little group of “grip guys” cared about our record list – I view the fact that people like Mike (Hubgeezer), Richard and Odd seem to want results from the things done at their events included as a part of our list as a good thing. But with that comes the responsibility to play the game you want to be included in. If you as a promoter have any desire to have lifts done at a particular contest included on the Grip Sport list – it is not the job of the sport to come to you – it is the promoters job to contact us (Jedd in this case) and jump through the very few hoops we ask for in advance, not after the fact.

Every entity makes claims of “World Records” and/or claims that anything done outside of their own Organizations contests don’t count – heck half the WRs set are now done on You Tube . Iron Mind (Randall) is or was at least posting on the GripBoard. He sponsors most Grip Contests when asked and while there are points where he and most of the Grip Sport people disagree – he is an integral part of the sport itself. But the events in which some “records” are set using the IM equipment do not follow the guidelines set forth by our sport. And that is fine of course – there is room for all – but those lifts should not be included in “Our” lists anymore than our lifts are included on the IM lists for example. If one thinks it is important enough that they want included (some don’t care) – then it’s really simple – play the game you want to be a part of.

Edited January 4, 2013 by climber511

[acorn]

Hubgeezer, I believe the reason Mark Felix's SB hold is not on the list is because Odd's contest was not sanctioned. The reason it was not sanctioned was it was all Last Man Standing format. I can go back and review my email on this if you like but I'm pretty sure the IGC board discussed this and that was the conclusion.

- Aaron

[Hubgeezer]

Hubgeezer, I believe the reason Mark Felix's SB hold is not on the list is because Odd's contest was not sanctioned. The reason it was not sanctioned was it was all Last Man Standing format. I can go back and review my email on this if you like but I'm pretty sure the IGC board discussed this and that was the conclusion.

- Aaron

Aaron,

Yes but...the reason I brought up the Felix one, and not the other performances there...on the Silver Bullet event itself, it is not last man standing. So the last man standing format taints all events in the competition? Ouch.

[Hubgeezer]

The San Jose Fit Expo contest, July 15, 2012 had its results posted on the World Wide Web. Some good lifts from nongrip guys on here:

http://www.thefitexpo.com/sj/docs/2012_Ironmind_Grip_Challenge_SJ_Final_Results.pdf

FYI, if you want to add anything to your lists, if it qualifies. If not, there it is anyway.

[Jedd Johnson]

Again, the Silver Bullet Hold seems like a problematic event to me.

I think you will find that in some cases a brand new #3 is used and in others and older one is used.

And no, not every event in a contest gets disqualified because one or more events is last man standing.

And yes, there are some very good lifts that took place there. I would love to include them all on our records list, but Last man Standing lifts are not added.

They are however used for NAGS Qualifying lifts, should the athlete be interested in submitting, as long as all other technical rules of the lift are followed, especially since Andrew allows video submissions for the qualifier lifts.

[Hubgeezer]

Again, the Silver Bullet Hold seems like a problematic event to me.

I think you will find that in some cases a brand new #3 is used and in others and older one is used.

And no, not every event in a contest gets disqualified because one or more events is last man standing.

And yes, there are some very good lifts that took place there. I would love to include them all on our records list, but Last man Standing lifts are not added.

They are however used for NAGS Qualifying lifts, should the athlete be interested in submitting, as long as all other technical rules of the lift are followed, especially since Andrew allows video submissions for the qualifier lifts.

The Silver Bullet at that particular contest was brand new, provided by RJ Strossen, and as you can tell by Adam's 5 second hold, a very stiff one.