jklove41 Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 I have the COC T,1,2 and 3. My 2 is double stamped. When I lay the 2 on each of the other grippers, each handle of the 2 is about 1/8 inch shorter than the other grippers. 1/8 doesn't seem like much but I'm thinking it could make a noticeable difference in the force required to close compared to a 2 with the same length handles as the other grippers. How about it? Has anyone else noticed this about the 2? Thanks Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 My #2 has a deep set spring ( purchased in 2002). According to my scale, it takes 220lb. to fully close (should be ~195lb.). My #1 took 140lb. to close. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Robert, Those numbers seem way off too me, are you taking the measurements off the end of the handle or in the middle of the handle? You should also know better to equate your number to the Ironmind “ratings.” Most #2’s I’ve tested fall within the 120-pound range off of the end of the handle, nowhere near 220. Also, I stood on the top of my Silver Elite while holding a 25-pound plate in my hand and the hands just touched (I’m 200-pounds) . How could it be that a gripper that is almost a #4 in strength would have the same reading as your #2? The 225 for my Silver Elite also is right in line with PDA’s numbers since they multiplied the measurement of the end of the handle by 2.375, which would make it 530 Inch pounds. Your reading would be 518 for a #2! Ken, The grippers vary greatly in spring mount, and it is not confined to the #3 or #2. Your #2 may be short, or your others may be long, it’s hard to say, although I did purchase a double stamped #2 last year and it was set deeper than most, but the #1’s and trainers may be set deeper than before as well. 1/8” varience is fairly common. I mentioned a long time ago on this board (and the picture of two #1 grippers is still in the Cyberpump gallery) that I have a #1 gripper that is almost the strength of a trainer because the handles are set really far from the spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Tom- Those numbers do seem right! I didnt realize the number they used to make it inch pounds (2.375) That puts my #3 at around 430-and I knew it was a good but tougher than my PDA 387. Cool. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Most #2’s I’ve tested fall within the 120-pound range off of the end of the handle, nowhere near 220. It's hard to measure this on a bathroom scale because it is easy to apply extra pounds on the shut gripper without realising it. 120lbs for a #2 is way to much too IMO (let's not talk about 220lbs...). I would be interested in seeing how you measured them Tom. I obtained 69lbs with the #1, 90lbs with the #2 and 118lbs with the #3. Yep 118lbs No hype. Amaury. PS: and YES my bathroom scale is OK....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I forgot to mention that i can close the #3 on the bathroom scale while not applying all my BW... And i'm only 174lbs. I can get the #4 up to 1/2" at around 130lbs (max pressure i can exert while pushing with two hands against the scale ). I guess that i would have to apply something like 145lbs to fully close it (??). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Well amaury, when someone’s quoting 220-pounds it’s kinda hard to write 120, so I guess I went a little high! It’s been a long time since I’ve done measurements, and with all different types of “Vintages.” I remembered the 120 numbers, but these measurements were probably from my older harder #2, or even a modified (shortened #2). I didn’t look them up. Still, your numbers seem a wee bit low too me, I know I’ve had #2’s over 100-pounds. My technique is to fold up a hand towel, put the towel of the scale and press the gripper down until the handles touch. I use a digital scale. We might be a little off on our measurements, but I can say one thing for certain that when I was about 185-pounds I could not close my original #3 with all my bodyweight on the scale in this manner (but as you note it’s hard to apply your full bodyweight with the gripper on the scale). Talk about a difference in grippers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSW Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Tom, I will try again with your method. I figured my reading was fairly accurate, since Ironmind claims 195lb. (that is lb NOT Inch-pounds) for the #2, and my #2 has a very deepset spring. Does anyone know how Ironmind does their measurements? I think my #2 compares to closing my PDA Grippinator with about 70lb. on it (standard handle set for 2" ROM). But according to PDA : The lever arm of the G is nominally 4-to-1. So, for a 50 pound load on the sleeve the closing pressure at the grips is nominally 200 pounds. How does that compare to spring grippers? The question is non-answerable because no two grippers are identical. Better question - do you have enough time in your life to get a truthful answer about spring gripper closing pressure from your supplier? Not likely. What about uniform dimensions? Better bet - train progressively, gradually working your way up through grippers you cannot close. As long as you are adding weight to G you know you are getting stronger. If you can squeeze 70 pounds on the G you will probably be capable of closing a 3. I am guessing it will take me more like 100lb. on the Grippinator (in strict form!) before I can close my #3. Amaury, I can barely close my #4 by crushing it down like a nail, so I hope it takes more than 145lb. to close it! (BTW, I am a 350lb. benchpresser). Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Tom, i use the same technique. My #3 is clearly not a hard one BTW. Amaury,I can barely close my #4 by crushing it down like a nail, so I hope it takes more than 145lb. to close it! (BTW, I am a 350lb. benchpresser). Robert, take your bathroom scale and push against it in the same manner you crush a nail (i just tried it to be sure), you won't obtain anything near 350lb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Browne Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I looked at several #2 calibration ratings posted in the FAQ section done by PDA. The range of lbs. to close the 2s off the end of the handle was 110-129. Using the given ip as noted and dividing by 2.375 gave me the lbs. (110-129) needed to close Ironmind rates the #2 at 195lbs.??? confusing.."aint it"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 The range of lbs. to close the 2soff the end of the handle was 110-129. My mistake then Tom. You must measure it better than I...or i've got the weakest grippers on the planet (and my friends too...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 That sounds about right too me, the average of a 110 pound gripper and a 129 pound gripper would be 119.5-pounds. IM's numbers are supposed to reflect the force at the center of the handle, so they really are not that far off from PDA numbers, which are inch pounds and supposed to reflect the torque at the center. I had a bit of a revelation regarding gripper torque, force measurements and calculations after thinking about this last night. I was actually close to the answer 2 years ago, but I was missing a fundamental calculation that put it all in perspective. It may take me awhile to write up my findings, but in my mind I have truly resolved the discrepancies. I also think I know where PDA went wrong, and it was not in the machine but in the calculations that followed. This is important, because the numbers from any tested gripper can be used to actually calculate the force at the center, thus aligning the IM and PDA numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strong Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 LOL... I can't close my #4 between my legs, while using my hands and chest... I even doubt that I will get it to parallel between my legs ( I'm a 475 pound bencher ). On a bathroom scale, my #3 took 135 pounds to close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Browne Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Thanks Tom for clarification about the force pounds at center.. "aint" so confusing now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 On a bathroom scale, my #3 took 135 pounds to close. You're a bigger man than i Dag. Have you tried to measure your #4 on your scale ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strong Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 (edited) On a bathroom scale, my #3 took 135 pounds to close. You're a bigger man than i Dag. Have you tried to measure your #4 on your scale ? I can't close the #4 ( even if I jump on it ). Update !!! -------------------------- I just tried to close the #4 on the bathroom scale, and I couldn't get it to parallel. I got to 200 pounds before I had to give up Edited April 8, 2003 by 2strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Phew... That would have to be a HUGE difference between your #3 (135lbs) and your #4 (more than 180, 200, 220lbs ? ) Dag... Ironmind grippers are real pieces of junk compared to what Ironmind claims. I don't think that i want to get certified anymore. In fact it makes me feel like competing. Time to organize something in France i guess. Amaury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griparn Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 2strong, you must have a BAD #4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricMilfeld Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 2strong, your #4 must be the twin brother of mine. There's no point in even training to close it. That's why I posted to purchase someones easier #4 a while back. Basically I wasted $20 on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 The person who made my #4 is still laughing the handles are very deep. The spring looks like it would rub the handles. I only have thanks for this person because he is only making me better in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 My #4 has handles 2 3/4'' apart on the inside, and the spring is 1/8'' above the handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strong Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 2strong, your #4 must be the twin brother of mine. There's no point in even training to close it. That's why I posted to purchase someones easier #4 a while back. Basically I wasted $20 on mine. When I first got it... I was in awe of the people who could close ( or even do something useful with it ) the #4 gripper. But now I start to think that it's not humanly possible to close this/my gripper ( but who knows... there are lot of strong people out there... and on this board ). Btw... My best result with the #4, is to move it about 1,5 cm The good news, is that I managed 17 reps righty and 15 reps lefty with the #2 today ( I tried to close the #3 after the #2 attempt and got it to 5 mm, but I was to weak to shut it ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Dag, what did you obtain with your #2 on your scale ? Thanks, Amaury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGuy Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I get 120 lbs on the bathroom scale with my #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strong Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Dag, what did you obtain with your #2 on your scale ?Thanks, Amaury. I got 51 kilos ( 112.4 pounds ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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