Vulcan Gains Vs Tsg Gains

[barbe705]

has anyone noticed that making gains in one or the other does not have carryover? in other words, your vulcan training gets stronger but you're still closing the same grippers. or, your grippers are going up but your vulcan isn't.

if you managed to make gains in both what were you doing with each?

[Cannon]

Maybe he can clarify, but I think Adam got a lot stronger on TSGs by primarily working on the Vulcan.

[Justin Matney]

I think each one helps the other. I'll focus on TSGs for a few weeks, then the Vulcan for a few weeks, and it seems like I'm improving faster lately with both. When I first got a Vulcan in Feb or March, I was stuck at a CoC #2...now I'm improving exponentially.

[Chez]

My best gains came when I was using both the Vulcan V2 and TSGs. I rotated the workouts. The Vulcan really improved my set strength and TSGs are better at working my finishing strength. I get the best of both worlds this way.

[Geralt]

If you train consistantly with a Vulcan, there will definitely be carryover. Why are you asking this? Is progress stalling? Or are you not noticing progress

with your Vulcan? just curious.

[IROC-Z]

I get no carryover at all from the Vulcan to TSG's. The few times that I've trained exclusively with the V2 for extended periods of time, my TSG strength actually went down.

[barbe705]

I'm asking because like Iroc z I had been doing a lot of vulcan work. even though my vulcan improved by TSG did not. and, talking to a couple of other people I am hearing that they had the same thing happen.

from what people here seem to be say, the vulcan will help you on the set and sweep but leave you weak on the crush. or, maybe it just makes you weak on the crush relative to the gains made elsewhere.

basically, it seems like I would be better off doing no vulcan and focusing on tsg's if that's what my goal is.

essentially, I am arguing that no, there is not definitive carry over from the vulcan.

[daniel reinard]

Brent, according to RGC #s of the Vulcans the crush is quite weak comparing equivelant torsion grippers. Basically a #3 is like a L16 but if you measure L16 in an RGC it's a MUCH lower rating.

From what I hear sole Vulcan work makes the set and sweep strong but you may lose crush strength or just not gain any. The best results I hear are when you mix Vulcan and TSG work to hit all their benefits. I did that for a little while but then just decided I didn't enjoy the Vulcan so traded it for a WD. At least throw in 1 heavy TSG session every few vulcan sessions. I say make the TSG a heavy session because the vulcan workouts are relatively "lighter" so those session are better for reps, holds, speed and set work.

[barbe705]

I knew that the vulcan measured a lower number. I assume it hase to do with the different shapes/leverages.

it seems like the real issue might be that the strength curves are different for the 2 devices. and it feels like the concensus is that a vulcan will not help your crush like TSG's.

interesting.

[AdamTGlass]

Using one will improve the other, the is simple mechanics. The degree of help is not as big as one would desire.

TSG ramp in difficulty at the end, the final stretch of a Vulcan (particularly the V2) is easier. The technical positioning is different, particularly in setting.

Advantages of Vulcan - smooth handle allows very high volume without trashing skin, micro adjustments in difficulty, cost effective, useful for contest conditions as every notch up is harder, rather than same or easier.

I think everyone is clear on TSG....

It is interesting to note as Dan did the RGC numbers indicate a much lower resistance, even though it can feel like a bear to set. Particularly on my V2, setting above level 18 feels as hard as some of my 195-200 # RGC'ed TSG...even though the close is easier than a 3.5 COC.

I use them extensively in my training when working on grippers, with my #1 preference above all being the smooth handles/less hand trauma.

[Teemu I]

Weak set and sweep, train with Vulcan.

Weak crush from parallel to closed, train TSG's

I feel that whatever I can set with Vulcan comfortably, I can usually also close. I've also noticed that I can do holds with 3-4 level higher setting than I can close. You might think that in order to develop a monstrous setting ability, Vulcan would be the ticket.

I don't have actual data to prove it, but just by observing I'm of the opinion that it is more common to struggle with the actual close than the set. Not merely a subjective opinion as personally I have a weak set.

[Bearcat 74]

I do not own a Vulcan yet, but from the looks of it I would think the strength curve to be about like a plate loaded grip machine? Starting and sweeping through a plate loader, to me, is much harder than finishing it off.

I plan on picking up a V2 in the future.

[Teemu I]

I do not own a Vulcan yet, but from the looks of it I would think the strength curve to be about like a plate loaded grip machine? Starting and sweeping through a plate loader, to me, is much harder than finishing it off.

I plan on picking up a V2 in the future.

I would say not similar of course as it's spring loaded, but closer to plate loaded than torsion spring gripper. Something in between. I base this on my experience with Secret Weapon, Vulcan and of course TSG's.

[Bearcat 74]

Thanks

[Geralt]

I'm asking because like Iroc z I had been doing a lot of vulcan work. even though my vulcan improved by TSG did not. and, talking to a couple of other people I am hearing that they had the same thing happen.

from what people here seem to be say, the vulcan will help you on the set and sweep but leave you weak on the crush. or, maybe it just makes you weak on the crush relative to the gains made elsewhere.

basically, it seems like I would be better off doing no vulcan and focusing on tsg's if that's what my goal is.

essentially, I am arguing that no, there is not definitive carry over from the vulcan.

I would say indeed the same, that the heavier setting stuff makes the feeling a lot more different, however, I still believe when one chokes a Vulcan at a higher level (I have only experience with my 'old' version btw), it can be used to focus on, and train the crush as the last part of the close, so that you don't need to concentrate on the heavy setting. I still believe that the Vulcan is VERY versatile and that there is carryover...however my way of training (mostly maxing out every session , yes it's an addiction) makes the slow improvement in my training lately and not the Vulcan as a trainingtool by itself.