Guest mallory Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Just got the KTA program, which talks about finding the dogleg on the COC grippers. I can't find it -- both sides look exactly the same. The photos in the KTA course don't help either. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 One side is straight-one is curved. Check the grippers again-one side HAS to be more curved then the other. Inspect it hard-you will find it. Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mallory Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Did what you suggested, and found it. Thanks, Rick. BTW, are we going to see you again on doc's forum? You're missed there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Walker Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Most likely not. This is the only forum I use. You will notice no flaming, no punks, no idiots. Bill keeps it clean- Rick Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Dogleg? One side of what is curved? (I'd get KTA if i had access to a decent computer...but could someone throw a brother a bone?...i don't see what you guys are talking about) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strong Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 If you look at the gripper from the side, you will notice that one side is curved, while the other side is straight ( where the spring runs into the handles ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 I'll be 'dogged'...I hadn't noticed the difference in these puppies. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wells Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 (edited) Are Elites & BeefBuilders 'dog-legged' as well? I can't tell in pictures. Edited March 25, 2003 by wells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 If that's a gripper you'll be certifying with, turn the #3 stamp into your fingers regardless of which way it's doglegged. That way it won't be buried into your palm when you take the pic. My #3 is doglegged the other way, I turned it around without realizing it, and got a whole bunch of great pics of me closing an unidentified gripper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik_F Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 All grippers I have are "doglegged". I have PDA, BB and IM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mick01 Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Currently all I have is the #1. But I must be blind. I dont see any dogleg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Bear with me... What is the signifigance of the "dogleg"? -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mallory Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 You can close the gripper easier, if you hold the dogleg side cradled in your thumb. The dogleg side is the straighter side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wells Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 With all due respect 'Mallory' the 'dog-leg' side is the curved side not the straight side. Oxford English Dictionary: Dog-leg, a. Arch. 1. Of a bent form like a dog's hind leg; as in dog-leg chisel, ‘a crooked-shanked chisel used in smoothing the bottoms of grooves’ (Knight); dog-leg fence (Australia), a fence made by logs or trees laid horizontally on supports crossing X-wise; dog-leg hole, in Golf; dog-leg stair = DOG-LEGGED stair. 2. Applied to an inferior quality of tobacco. Also ellipt. as n. U.S. Thus the straight side should be placed into the palm/thumb and the curved 'dog-leg' side is 'gripped' with the fingers. The curve is so slight I believe only very small hands would benefit from this curve. Average and larger sized hands most likely would not feel the difference as the hand flexes considerably already when gripping the handles. The handles bury into the flesh and adjust to the contours of the individual hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 With the dogleg vs. straight side, doesn't the dog leg shift the center-of-mass of the gripper slightly towards that side? And if so, the rotational force of the gripper would be less with the dogleg held palm side? When the fingers crush downward, and the dogleg is on the finger side, the gripper has a slightly greater likelyhood to twist out of your optimal crush zone. So, keep the dogleg side to your palm... I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wells Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Bender your physics is correct... but only on paper. The intricate anatomy of the hand especially regarding flexibility and malleability may not be so co-operative with such straight and curved lines… mathematically speaking. That is why I honestly don’t see how such a slight curve would be a benefit to anyone except those with very small hands. In regards to the center of mass of the spring, I think it would need to be off more than 20% before any noticeable difference could be felt regarding ‘twisting’; again due to the shape of the hand. The idea of the ‘dog-leg’ side (slight inward curve) being ‘gripped’ instead of being ‘set’ into the palm/thumb curved was so that it would coincide with the curvature of the gripping fingers. Slightly clench your hand; see the curves at the joined fingertips and under the knuckles palmside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mallory Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Wells, I agree with your logic, and perhaps you are right about the terminology as well. I'm a newbie, but just read in the KTA program that the dogleg side is the straight side, which is the side you should put next to your thumb. I definitely found that helps. Is KTA wrong about calling the straight side the dogleg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris Mellen Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I have a suggestion. (Forgive its obviousness.) Put different colored string around the dog-legged sides of your grippers. When using the KTA program, it makes the grippers much easier to find. Since I time rests, I just want to pick it up and crush, not search for things. (Also, my sight sucks, so it's much easier for me to find.) --Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRBeyers Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Or, you could, as I have, color the band where there is no knurling. Use a "Sharpie" but be sure to let it dry completely. Yeah, it does wear off eventually, but it holds up for a while, and I know that that is the side that should be in my palm. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wells Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Don't know Mallory haven't bought the KTA program yet. I will soon though probably this summer when I know I will have the time to 'adhere' to it. Grammatically speaking the 'dogleg' is the bent side and not the straight side. No problem though… Only a small insignificant mistake... just keep the straight side in your palm/thumb and grip the bent side as instructed. No 'slight' to the KTA program as it sounds like an excellent training routine. MRBeyers: Great idea about marking the bent side with a Sharpie Magic Permanent Marker; I marked mine last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Some of these are my words, but most were stolen from John Szimanski PDA who did the original gripper research and applied the term "dog leg" to the gripper before anyone had a leg up on even naming it let alone singling it out. My ref/origin to dog leg came from GOLF where there is a relatively sharp crook in the fairway, not a smooth curve. IT IS A SUDDEN CHANGE IN DIRECTION. A curve does not have a sudden change in direction, the direction is continuous as defined by the radius (for a circle or segment) or an equation. It did not come from another source and I have not seen that exact term applied elsewhere. However, the "dog leg" is not in the Unabridged dictionary in America where it was applied to grippers. "Doglegged" is, when used as an architectural term, is as ambiguous as everything else they (architects) do. My Webster's Unabridged has, "in architecture, having a bend and structure suggesting the shape of a dog's hind leg: said especially of a stairway without a well in which the upper and under flights are connected by a platform or platforms." Ever seen a curved stair platform? Re the definition provided in this thread earlier: 1. A dog leg chisel - http://www.kmstools.com/scripts/products/c...?79&2<-<- how clear could it possibly be? 2. Crooked shank - it says CROOKED. 2. The X-fence - these are the zig-zag fences you see in the country. They are not curved anywhere. 4. Golf - voila! 5. Stair - ref above. 6. Tobacco - there is something wrong with their dictionary. There is no curve. The connection is SHARP. Our definition does not mention 'straight', so that's the straw man. The other definition's red herring is 'curved', but he did not look up 'curve': The term is American, and was chosen as appropriate for the application, which it is. So, the dogleg as chosen stated in the KTA program is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wells Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Hhhmmm... If you say so. Well to make all things better: I stand corrected. Mostly out of respect for you and the rest of the gripboard I don't want to make no waves here. Please do check out the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) online site (www.oed.com). You'll find more about the 'dog-leg' tobacco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mallory Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Wells, I agree it's a trivial question. Actually, I assumed exactly as you when I first read about the dogleg, and put the curved side along my thumb, thinking it was the dogleg. Closed it easier when I found my mistkae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Browne Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 The Dogleg is just an anomaly that occurs to the wire at the beginning of the spring coiling process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strong Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I also assumed that the curved side was the "dog leg", and have always closed the gripper with the straight side in my fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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