Spacer Mtrl For The Euro Pinch

[Mikael Siversson]

When the original Euro-2HP rules were worked out it was agreed that rubber was the only permissible material allowed for spacers. Wood for example does not compress which makes the lift a fraction easier than if rubber is used. Wood can likewise expand over time if it absorbs water. I do hope that all organisers use rubber and nothing but rubber for the Euro pinch lift.

[climber511]

I'm curious as to just how much if any difference the spacer material makes. I can't imagine the rubber inserts compress very much if at all. Mine has rubber so I don't care but there have been and currently are efforts being made to "improve" the system to make for much quicker width changes during contests with large numbers of people. This is being worked on now and Jedd Johnson has been informed of the project and David will be as well - if he has not already - it's not my project. The Euro is the most popular event in grip, but it also takes a very long time with 25 or so competitors and all wanting a different width - a VERY long time. Needs change as the sport grows, testing can be done, and products improved perhaps. I'm off climbing for a week starting today so you all can argue this out without me (thank god) but I might suggest everyone keep an open mind until the prototype is available for testing at least and Jedd and David should then decide - and only them in my opinion.

[Cannon]

When the original Euro-2HP rules were worked out it was agreed that rubber was the only permissible material allowed for spacers. Wood for example does not compress which makes the lift a fraction easier than if rubber is used. Wood can likewise expand over time if it absorbs water. I do hope that all organisers use rubber and nothing but rubber for the Euro pinch lift.

I thought the organizers got their stuff directly from David?

I've seen guys use plywood in training, but has anyone ever used it in a contest?

Just curious. I think it's a good thing to clarify what is proper.

Edit: After reading Chris's post above, I thought I should make an edit that I thought Mikael was referring to the WSH series, for example. I didn't know about a project to improve the 2HP for a contest setting.

[climber511]

This is a separate issue from Mikeals but due to the fact that I am leaving in a couple hours for vacation and one could affect the other - I did want to bring this project forward.

I have contacted both Jedd and David about the project - I hope people can allow them to wait for the new prototype that is in the works and allow them to decide but I am certain that won't be allowed to happen on the forums. The "Euro" is maybe 6 years old and the most popular event in grip but it is also terribly slow due to width changes etc - if it can be improved without issues - I think it should be. Please don't judge or make decisions until this project has been given a chance.

Edited October 9, 2011 by climber511

[mightyjoe]

Me and my son Cody are working on a 2H Euro now that will have wood as the inserts.

Water is not an issue if marine grade plywood is used. Much easier to work with and the

widths could easily be adjusted. Warning: When cutting marine grade plywood a mask must be

used due to the dust particles being breathed are toxic. Handling the wood after that is fine.

I can't see water being an issue anyway if the unit is kept out of the elements. One could easily use

treated plywood and never have a problem with water ruining the wood. I think it would last a lifetime

or two.

Another option is plexiglass inserts. Not that cheap but easy to work with. I have a friend that can cut perfect

circles out of this stuff (wood too). Just ideas here guys. I'm sure there's other materials that could be used

but not thought of yet.

Note that we are making one not because of being able to adjust the width but for

a lighter unit for hauling around. If it was up to me I would not give a choice on the width.

This is equivalent to asking for a more narrow Blob50. In the days of oldtime strongmen

they didn't go around looking for thinner York plates to perform say a 1 hand pinch with

2, 45's. Come up with one width that the majority agrees upon and go with it. Huge problem

solved and a great event can go on without consuming so much time at a contest.

Much of the rule controversies brought upon grip feats is quite unnecessary in my estimation.

Make it one width and let everyone deal with the rule by practicing at that width. This would be so much easier

guys!

As always, just my input and nothing more. Happy to contribute ideas!

I would love to hear MORE on this from others too!!!

[Cannon]

Joe, I think the whole point of changing the implement is to make contests run quicker. A more efficient way to change widths and load weight.

Also, the fact that it's adjustable is the original spirit of the design. It's not about trying to make anything narrower (per your comparison to a narrower Blob). For example, I can lift more weight at 58mm, which is wider than many.

How much hauling are you doing that it's your biggest concern with the equipment?

[rico300zx]

Doesn't the slot in the rubber already make it easier to change? Maunder notches on the bar would help with centering?

[mightyjoe]

Joe, I think the whole point of changing the implement is to make contests run quicker. A more efficient way to change widths and load weight.

Loading weight doesn't seem to be the issue as much as taking the time to change the widths. One width equals much quicker contest times.

Also, the fact that it's adjustable is the original spirit of the design. It's not about trying to make anything narrower (per your comparison to a narrower Blob). For example, I can lift more weight at 58mm, which is wider than many.

You can lift more at 58mm probably because you practice at that width. If it's a fixed width you'll no longer have to worry about that aspect.

You'll practice at the set width. And yes, you'll progress if you practice at the given width. My comparison of the Blob50 was to demonstrate

that the whole object is to lift as much weight as possible even if it means to make the implement more narrow. Others could just as easily

say they can lift more with a more narrow width than 58mm. One width and the problem is solved. As for the original spirit of the design,

things change over time either for better or for worse. In this case, I believe the change would be for the better. Just imagine a contest where

10 different widths had to be changed in the contest. Not good. If the original spirit of the design is to be maintained then it seems the implement

will have to be changed significantly regardless.

How much hauling are you doing that it's your biggest concern with the equipment?

Up and down stairs from the inside to outside depending on training or mini comps. Not fun when my implement weighs 83 lbs. empty.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Mighty Joe

[Cannon]

I disagree with the point about width. I have diligently trained 46, 48, 52, 54, and 58mm. Experimented, changed back and forth, fail on one width only to adjust immediately and get it... Many have gone through this process. I lift the most weight at 58mm.

Also you have understand this is not static. 58 might not always test well for me. Ask Adam Glass about his WSH2 lift. Missed his opener at his typical width only to lift it seconds later at a wider width! The ability to change makes or breaks this lift whether in training or on contest day.

[mightyjoe]

I disagree with the point about width. I have diligently trained 46, 48, 52, 54, and 58mm. Experimented, changed back and forth, fail on one width only to adjust immediately and get it... Many have gone through this process. I lift the most weight at 58mm.

Also you have understand this is not static. 58 might not always test well for me. Ask Adam Glass about his WSH2 lift. Missed his opener at his typical width only to lift it seconds later at a wider width! The ability to change makes or breaks this lift whether in training or on contest day.

You have made my point Matt.

Think about what you just said. Many other factors you're leaving out of the equation. Concerning Adam's failure? Other factors could also be attributed.

You're assumption is that GM testing protocols are accurate. I'm also assuming you're TESTING

your movements as Adam does. Maybe you're not. I'm going by your statement "58 might not always test well for me"

Also, keep in mind I'm giving input here. With that being said here's 2 questions for your consideration:

1) Do you agree that making it one width would reduce contest times? 2) If they made it one width

would you just pass on that event at contests with the 2H Euro Pinch?

[Mikael Siversson]

The variable width is what makes the Euro so popular. There is no excuse for underperforming on it. This is the whole point. Who cares if you are number one on the 50blob as it is plain obvious that if favours a large hand with skinny fingers. I outlifted Nick McKinless on the 50blob first time I saw one but I am certainly not considering myself having stronger thumbs than him. It is plain obvious that my hand type suits the blob better than Nick's for example. At it stands it the lifts also adheres to the classical two hand pinch lift using 45lbs or 20k plates as a base.

If it was up to me I would not give a choice on the width.

This is equivalent to asking for a more narrow Blob50.

....Make it one width and let everyone deal with the rule by practicing at that width. This would be so much easier

guys!...

[Mikael Siversson]

Way too many people have payed way too much money for it to be replaced just because some find it a bit time consuming.

I'm curious as to just how much if any difference the spacer material makes. I can't imagine the rubber inserts compress very much if at all. Mine has rubber so I don't care but there have been and currently are efforts being made to "improve" the system to make for much quicker width changes during contests with large numbers of people. This is being worked on now and Jedd Johnson has been informed of the project and David will be as well - if he has not already - it's not my project. The Euro is the most popular event in grip, but it also takes a very long time with 25 or so competitors and all wanting a different width - a VERY long time. Needs change as the sport grows, testing can be done, and products improved perhaps. I'm off climbing for a week starting today so you all can argue this out without me (thank god) but I might suggest everyone keep an open mind until the prototype is available for testing at least and Jedd and David should then decide - and only them in my opinion.

[Cannon]

Joe, I have about zero knowledge of the protocol Adam uses. I used the word test because it's what I and many others have done to arrive at an optimal width. Experiment, whatever.

I think it would be a horrible change to go to one width and thankfully you're the only one suggesting that.

[Cannon]

I would go as far to say that making it one width would REALLY speed up contests, and make this lift obsolete overnight.

[rico300zx]

Way too many people have payed way too much money for it to be replaced just because some find it a bit time consuming.

Agreed Mikael, your right about that.

I'm curious as to just how much if any difference the spacer material makes. I can't imagine the rubber inserts compress very much if at all. Mine has rubber so I don't care but there have been and currently are efforts being made to "improve" the system to make for much quicker width changes during contests with large numbers of people. This is being worked on now and Jedd Johnson has been informed of the project and David will be as well - if he has not already - it's not my project. The Euro is the most popular event in grip, but it also takes a very long time with 25 or so competitors and all wanting a different width - a VERY long time. Needs change as the sport grows, testing can be done, and products improved perhaps. I'm off climbing for a week starting today so you all can argue this out without me (thank god) but I might suggest everyone keep an open mind until the prototype is available for testing at least and Jedd and David should then decide - and only them in my opinion.

Edited October 10, 2011 by rico300zx

[mightyjoe]

Sorry if I offended you Matt.

I will just have to disagree with you and leave it at that.

I'll post a pic when me and Cody are done with ours.

Also, I'll think twice before giving input any more. WOW!

Whichever way it goes, I'll adapt and keep practicing and progressing.

[mightyjoe]

Way too many people have payed way too much money for it to be replaced just because some find it a bit time consuming.

I'm curious as to just how much if any difference the spacer material makes. I can't imagine the rubber inserts compress very much if at all. Mine has rubber so I don't care but there have been and currently are efforts being made to "improve" the system to make for much quicker width changes during contests with large numbers of people. This is being worked on now and Jedd Johnson has been informed of the project and David will be as well - if he has not already - it's not my project. The Euro is the most popular event in grip, but it also takes a very long time with 25 or so competitors and all wanting a different width - a VERY long time. Needs change as the sport grows, testing can be done, and products improved perhaps. I'm off climbing for a week starting today so you all can argue this out without me (thank god) but I might suggest everyone keep an open mind until the prototype is available for testing at least and Jedd and David should then decide - and only them in my opinion.

I wonder if others feel the same about the NEW Vulcan?

You make good points but there's other ways of looking at things, uhh?

[Cannon]

I'll as well. Chris made a good point above:

Please don't judge or make decisions until this project has been given a chance.

[Bob Lipinski]

I believe it would be easy to make the pinch go faster. Do it rounds style, like a powerlifting meet. If you have 2 loaders, change the width in between lifters. With 10+ people, you could be strict on the amount of time taken when the bar is ready. This would cut the event time in half.

Right now you get multiple groups of people following themselves with rising bar. With 15 or more lifters, 2 platforms. I think the most fair way to divide people up would be by how much you are opening with- Maybe 180-200 for the dividing point.

[Mikael Siversson]

Yes I would not do it any other way. Rounds system all the way for me as it is much quicker with a couple of loaders.

I believe it would be easy to make the pinch go faster. Do it rounds style, like a powerlifting meet. If you have 2 loaders, change the width in between lifters. With 10+ people, you could be strict on the amount of time taken when the bar is ready. This would cut the event time in half.

Right now you get multiple groups of people following themselves with rising bar. With 15 or more lifters, 2 platforms. I think the most fair way to divide people up would be by how much you are opening with- Maybe 180-200 for the dividing point.

[jad]

I believe it would be easy to make the pinch go faster. Do it rounds style, like a powerlifting meet. If you have 2 loaders, change the width in between lifters. With 10+ people, you could be strict on the amount of time taken when the bar is ready. This would cut the event time in half.

Right now you get multiple groups of people following themselves with rising bar. With 15 or more lifters, 2 platforms. I think the most fair way to divide people up would be by how much you are opening with- Maybe 180-200 for the dividing point.

Two devices/platforms will cause bickering. I for one would not want to pinch on any device but Jedd's if Jedd's was available and would not attend a contest where I was forced to do so. I think strictly managing the time on attempts would cut down the time tremendously. There is also the warm-up thing, which I do enjoy but when you have 3-4 people each doing a warm-up set at multiple weights as we go up, that's more and more time.

[Jedd Johnson]

I believe it would be easy to make the pinch go faster. Do it rounds style, like a powerlifting meet. If you have 2 loaders, change the width in between lifters. With 10+ people, you could be strict on the amount of time taken when the bar is ready. This would cut the event time in half.

Right now you get multiple groups of people following themselves with rising bar. With 15 or more lifters, 2 platforms. I think the most fair way to divide people up would be by how much you are opening with- Maybe 180-200 for the dividing point.

Bob, I don't see how changing the widths in between lifters will be any easier. You still have to take off all the weight, loosen an inside collar, pull out an insert, put in another one, and then do that multiple times? Where's the time benefit. Plus it sounds like a good way to get a weight calculation wrong by forgetting how much one of the inserts weighs.

[Cannon]

I believe it would be easy to make the pinch go faster. Do it rounds style, like a powerlifting meet. If you have 2 loaders, change the width in between lifters. With 10+ people, you could be strict on the amount of time taken when the bar is ready. This would cut the event time in half.

Right now you get multiple groups of people following themselves with rising bar. With 15 or more lifters, 2 platforms. I think the most fair way to divide people up would be by how much you are opening with- Maybe 180-200 for the dividing point.

Bob, I don't see how changing the widths in between lifters will be any easier. You still have to take off all the weight, loosen an inside collar, pull out an insert, put in another one, and then do that multiple times? Where's the time benefit. Plus it sounds like a good way to get a weight calculation wrong by forgetting how much one of the inserts weighs.

I thought it would be cool to make a simple "2HP jack" like this except smaller. You could probably make it out of plumbing parts, which are cheap and everywhere:

http://www.prowriststraps.com/inc/sdetail/228954

Basically it lifts the equipment like a lever taking the weight off the center disks and allowing everything to slide freely on the center pipe. Combine that with some sort of quick release collar on just one side of the metal plates and you could make a width and weight change look like a NASCAR pit stop without the weight ever leaving the bar! When you're done you just dump it back on the floor.

Heck, a simple stand could probably be created that serves the same purpose.

[mightyjoe]

Question for Jedd and any others interested in this problem:

What would you consider the 4 most popular widths (mm) in the 2HP Euro implement?

I believe I've come up with a great solution to this problem that could really help.

Me and my son Cody are working on this implement. I called Eric Milfeld and explained

it to him and after going over several considerations, Eric commented that the idea was

simply brilliant.

Teaser: You'll never have to take the implement apart at a contest. Will take under 5 seconds to change to a different

width with only 4 possible widths, hence the reason for the question above.

Several other advantages also. Give me the widths and I'll do a video explanation of the implement.

When me and Cody are done with our proto-type we will head to Eric and Paul's and give it an adequate

testing.

I thought since my suggestion of one fixed width caused such a stir I would take a negative and turn it into

a positive by coming up with a solution.

I think all will like!

MJ

[bencrush]

Question for Jedd and any others interested in this problem:

What would you consider the 4 most popular widths (mm) in the 2HP Euro implement?

I believe I've come up with a great solution to this problem that could really help.

Me and my son Cody are working on this implement. I called Eric Milfeld and explained

it to him and after going over several considerations, Eric commented that the idea was

simply brilliant.

Teaser: You'll never have to take the implement apart at a contest. Will take under 5 seconds to change to a different

width with only 4 possible widths, hence the reason for the question above.

Several other advantages also. Give me the widths and I'll do a video explanation of the implement.

When me and Cody are done with our proto-type we will head to Eric and Paul's and give it an adequate

testing.

I thought since my suggestion of one fixed width caused such a stir I would take a negative and turn it into

a positive by coming up with a solution.

I think all will like!

MJ

Sounds very interesting Joe! Look forward to seeing what you've come up with.