eduard23 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I just tried an easy coc 3 2004 and i saw and it's not the first time that they are more like coc 2,5 gr8 spring than coc 3 gr8 spring.Happened 3 times with 3 diffrent coc grippers no3 not gr8.It's just because i tried easy coc 3 grippers or the gr8 spring it's harder and the level of coc 3 grown after 2005?Also my coc no3 2011 it's way ahead of coc 3 2004 and coc3 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Far and away the easiest #4 I have ever seen or tried is a 2009 model g8 spring. The g8 springs are more consistent but they still vary. The toughest #3 I had was supersqueeze's #3, it was an older one and it was a bad dude. A guy by the name of Soilworker had a g8 spring #3 that was sent around and touted as super tough. It was a hard #3 but supersqueeze's #3 would eat it. Bottom line, and this will be a shock to some people and it will really shock IM, grippers vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Bottom line, and this will be a shock to some people and it will really shock IM, grippers vary. And, this first came out on the evil Gripboard and discussion lead by the Satan of grip. You could use any #3 to certify before. It wasn't until after the Mash Monster certification came out that IM started to send brand new unopened #3 grippers which still does not solve the problem (but makes it a bit more consistent). But, there is no way they could copy the totally fair method of the Mash Monster cert where the gripper travels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Bill, you are the devil. Hush with this talk of fairness and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yes and nobody "deep set" grippers or passed easy ones around until The Gripboard. Wait..there were no easy ones; nobody tampered with grippers and then passed them around until The Gripboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eduard23 Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 In my opinion i don't want to offend someone,Mash Monster cert. is better than ironmind.Just the idea to change something in the middle of the game 1 inch set vs CCS is wrong.But that is something that happened and the MM cert is on and has better levels of grippers.Hand size matter because every hand has it's own perfect position for grippers and in my opinion to put the no3 CoC gripper in the perfect spot with a small hand from CCS it's hard AND you lose energy and force for the final crush.Anyway if you can close from CCS the trainer you can close the no 3 also... .Everybody is free to pick what thinks is wright and true.In almost 3 years of deep setting my wrist is intact and more powerful nothing happened...strange .Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturalstrength Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Bottom line, and this will be a shock to some people and it will really shock IM, grippers vary. Randy Strossen and IM are the epitome of hypocrisy! Just the thought of them makes me feel dirty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wow strong words here! I think RS runs a very respectable business with decently priced products and excellent customer service. Now my 2 cents regarding the certification process. We all found out that the initial IM certification process could be improved. IM recognised it and changed it. Ignominious? Quite the opposite i reckon. Is the process perfect now? It depends on what you expect from it. If the current process means to offer IM customers the opportunity to prove that they were able to close an IM #3 gripper - which had not been tampered with - in front of a 'credible' witness and in a controled fashion (CCS), then i think it does its job perfectly. But if the idea is to certify that someone has attained a very precise level of gripper strength, the Mash Monster Process is the way to go. Two different processes for two different purposes. Even though i didn't run the above comments by RS, i am quite confident that he would agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 They changed it alright, multiple times, but they certainly didn't improve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturalstrength Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Wow strong words here! I think RS runs a very respectable business with decently priced products and excellent customer service. Now my 2 cents regarding the certification process. We all found out that the initial IM certification process could be improved. IM recognised it and changed it. Ignominious? Quite the opposite i reckon. Is the process perfect now? It depends on what you expect from it. If the current process means to offer IM customers the opportunity to prove that they were able to close an IM #3 gripper - which had not been tampered with - in front of a 'credible' witness and in a controled fashion (CCS), then i think it does its job perfectly. But if the idea is to certify that someone has attained a very precise level of gripper strength, the Mash Monster Process is the way to go. Two different processes for two different purposes. Even though i didn't run the above comments by RS, i am quite confident that he would agree with it. I used to think the same about RS and IM back in the days of my ignorance. To summarize a long story, I stood up for many of my friends who were getting bashed on the IM forum by internet bullies that plague that forum. These are the individuals who I dubbed, "the IM untouchables". They can slander other members, inject their toxic poison into posts, and Randall sits back and enjoys the douchbaggery. As soon as you speak contrary words against one of these "untouchables", than all of a sudden you are made out to be the antichrist and shunned like you're the problem. Crap got out of hand, I ended up apologizing and asking Randy to remove my posts. A few days later I am banned from the forum, and my name removed from the 2009 IM Red Nail Roster. Call me a bitter SOB, but I worked my ass off to attain the distinction of certing the red. After inquiring to Randy about this, I get a long-winded email about my unsportsmanlike conduct and how I should just recert the red. At this stage in the game, I can give two shi*s about IM red nail certifications. The red nail was a milestone that I am proud of for personal reasons, but ashamed to be linked to RS and IM. He acttually did me a favor by removing my name from his list, and thus any association with IM. The summary of it all is that I will never buy or recommend IM to anyone. Will this affect IM in anyway?? Of course not, but at the end of the day we can only live according to our personal convictions, and thats good enough for me! -Carl Edited July 23, 2011 by naturalstrength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Through many phone conversations I realized that Randy would run someone in the ground over the phone and then they were bestest good friends in person. I'm sure that applies to me as well. Randy told me why every rule for the CoC list exists and who is was made for, there are some that post on this board and have been friends of Randy for a long time. He had a story for every one and a name as well. Grippers have been set forever, I saw videos about setting grippers when I got started in 1999-2000. Randy now has a stance that Bill Piche and KTA alone are the sole reasons that grippers are set thus destroying the feat of a gripper close. Ron Mazza had a way of setting grippers that he used for his cert, pretty sure that was before KTA, aka 1995. It was not to parallel but it wasn't credit card depth. The CCS rule always struck me as strange. Who in the world sits around and thinks, "I bet swiping a credit card between the handles is the way the old timers used to do it!" There was never a rule for set width for gripper closes until people started destroying the #3 cert list. Randy refused to acknowledge the gripboard for hell and ever until his cert list was lit up like a friggin' Christmas tree. Now it is evil and a place that destroys the ways of old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Heath is spot on. In fact, when I first read I was somehow responsible for the "deep set"...I was like...WHAT!? There was never any intention of promoting a certain set level. Never. Heck, we didn't even think about depth of set back then. However, what I did learn and discussed over and over with none other than Steve Weiner is that there is technique to closing grippers properly and this really is all "HAND PLACEMENT" of the gripper in the hand. Credit for the "set" should actually be given to none other than JOE KINNEY. I and many others studied his video for proper hand placement and this includes the pinky placement for maximum leverage. This includes using the thumb pad properly. This includes how to hold the gripper when setting it into the closing hand! And, these are the true facts of the "deep set" that I somehow get credited for inventing. The main basis for KTA was all the info garnered from all the COC's I talked to -- in fact I wrote an article for MILO after interviewing them. It is combining a lot of ideas into one program. With some prudent cycling/periodization and utilizing the body "alarm response' as well. Kevin Fulton's 100's of closes with the #2 while farming at night and his success opened my eyes to high volume and grip strength. Jim Ferry and the old blacksmith theory (you will adapt!) contributed to my experimenting that if manual laborers can survive and have huge hand strength why not most people? And, I have to actually give credit to MILO for one aspect. The training of the Bulgarians that was covered so much in MILO during this time in O-lifting. Multiple max workouts per day! The deep set is not the way to close big grippers properly when trying to complete the feat. If it was, the MM cert would never use the set width it does today. However, I do believe the CCS is not totally fair to smaller handed athletes but hey life isn't fair. No one expects everyone to dunk a basketball either by lowering the rim to 8 feet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Some more FACTS.... The reason Heath is featured in the KTA program picture is because without me bouncing these different whacked out theories off of him and him TRYING them too in addition to myself, the program would have never been written. So, a great deal of thanks goes to Heath who Steve Weiner and I thought was a troll when he closed the 3 like butter so quickly! I also appreciate the countless hours spent talking with Steve Weiner. We both were obsessed with closing the #3 and he pushed me to think outside the box. Way outside. Thanks guys! And, I would like to publicly thank the original "guinea" pigs who volunteered and helped develop it as well. Months and months of experimenting was done with actual test subjects and lots of program tweaking ensued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I came back from vacation to find a PM from Strossen telling me that I've been removed from the COC cert list...and taken off Ironmind's mailing list - which made me guffaw since I told him I would never order from him again. Seems Strossen didn't like getting kicked right square in the nuts on his own forum. But he deserved it. So he got it. And not just from me. He has lost nearly two dozen gripper sales from my recommendations so far this year. And there are still 4 months left. I'm still proud of my accomplishment - certifying on the #3 in 2005 - and being taken off the list doesn't take away the fact that I destroyed that cert...both hands...TNS...and CCS...so suck it Strossen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eduard23 Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 This is an unfair thing to put someone out the roster for a personal thing.The feat. was done so nothing takes away that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Ok guys, I trust your word regarding RS. It's a pity though since I have respect for IM as a company (products, service etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturalstrength Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Ok guys, I trust your word regarding RS. It's a pity though since I have respect for IM as a company (products, service etc.). It's never too late to change your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehammer Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Ok guys, I trust your word regarding RS. It's a pity though since I have respect for IM as a company (products, service etc.). It's never too late to change your mind do you refuse to use IM products? some of them seem pretty innovative and hard to duplicate (rolling thunder, telegraph key) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Rolling Thunder and TTK are actually pretty easy to duplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I was never impressed with the rolling thunder. I thought it was cheaply made with the plastic handle, etc. That was the 90's version. Not sure on today's version though. You are just as well off using a 3 dollar clamp from Home Depot for thumb strength. You can even micro load with rubber bands. And, it's obviously super portable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Rolling Thunder and TTK are actually pretty easy to duplicate. Warren Tetting has put out a TTK for years and FBBC's crusher is far superior to the RT. It's the same with the IM Axle; better equipment exists but people use the IM stuff because that's what the records are recognized on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehammer Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I was never impressed with the rolling thunder. I thought it was cheaply made with the plastic handle, etc. That was the 90's version. Not sure on today's version though. You are just as well off using a 3 dollar clamp from Home Depot for thumb strength. You can even micro load with rubber bands. And, it's obviously super portable. Really? After reading KTA and preparing myself for it, I got the impression that TTK was very important and almost essential to the program. You think the spring clamp is just as good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Dang Ben. Looks like it's extremely obvious now Strossen's motive, sell sell sell. He can be a promoter of the sport but these crazy things seem to supercede all that. Why would someone chase a cert if you never know down the road if you'll remain on it? What about new guys? They look at the list and count the names, little do they know that number goes up and down too. It's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturalstrength Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Ok guys, I trust your word regarding RS. It's a pity though since I have respect for IM as a company (products, service etc.). It's never too late to change your mind do you refuse to use IM products? some of them seem pretty innovative and hard to duplicate (rolling thunder, telegraph key) Yes!! I do refuse to have anything IM in my possession. Also, grip gear is extremely easy to build and duplicate, often more superior to the overpriced IM equipment. Case in point... I bought a 7 foot piece of 2" diameter SOLID CRS steel and welded to small collars on either side. Total cost $75 dollars. A far cry from IM $250 PLUS shipping and 6 month delivery time frame that the good Doctor Strossen will charge the grip newb for an Apollons Axle. Don't know how the man can sleep at night Edited July 24, 2011 by naturalstrength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 For thumb strength the spring clamp is just as good. I got rid of my TTK and all I use is clamps. My 2" bar is a solid piece of CRS I found on a job site, 2 clamps welded on for $5 and I have a $5 axle. That's a crock about people getting taken off the list, that is a bit childish. Bill, looks like we may be next. Now we won't be able to use it on our resume`. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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