Ironmind And Wrong Facts

[Volko Krull]

Hey folks,

just read this small piece from an Ironmind News article:

Its training programs aside, this e-book taught people what became known as the "deep set," which in straight English meant starting one's crush with a narrower than normal gap in between the gripper handles . . . and this is when the train went off the tracks.

As if by magic, guys instantly "got stronger," as they "closed" grippers that had eluded them only a short time before. To get an idea of how effectively this deep set can work, load up a bar to 100 pounds (45 kg) over your best squat and - using proven spotters or a tested power rack - give it shot in an IPF-approved style. Next, after you've crawled out from under the bar, unload it, put it back in position, reload it, and this time, try to do a quarter squat instead of a legal lift.

Voila! This time you were successful, right?

This is what Ironmind writes about KTA. Wouldn't the quartersquat be more of an equivalent

for squeezing a gripper through the sweep, stopping before the crushdown and letting it back open?

In my opinion, a deepset would be more like starting from rockbottom and squatting it up maybe

10", going through the hardest part of the lift. Why does Ironmind try to sell these factually incorrect informations?

regards

Volko

[Bigdeze]

I try not to waste time on the context of what Ironmind or any other manufacturer or individual says when promoting products and spend my time on getting stronger. Take what works for you and use it and discard whatever doesn't work. KTA is working just fine for me.

[BroodingMoon]

What's he complaining about? Using the KTA programme is one method of building the strength required to certify using Ironmind grippers, all techniques implemented in the programme are training tools. Business or not, his attitude is plain childish.

[mobsterone]

Hey folks,

just read this small piece from an Ironmind News article:

Its training programs aside, this e-book taught people what became known as the "deep set," which in straight English meant starting one's crush with a narrower than normal gap in between the gripper handles . . . and this is when the train went off the tracks.

As if by magic, guys instantly "got stronger," as they "closed" grippers that had eluded them only a short time before. To get an idea of how effectively this deep set can work, load up a bar to 100 pounds (45 kg) over your best squat and - using proven spotters or a tested power rack - give it shot in an IPF-approved style. Next, after you've crawled out from under the bar, unload it, put it back in position, reload it, and this time, try to do a quarter squat instead of a legal lift.

Voila! This time you were successful, right?

This is what Ironmind writes about KTA. Wouldn't the quartersquat be more of an equivalent

for squeezing a gripper through the sweep, stopping before the crushdown and letting it back open?

In my opinion, a deepset would be more like starting from rockbottom and squatting it up maybe

10", going through the hardest part of the lift. Why does Ironmind try to sell these factually incorrect informations?

regards

Volko

I disagree. Randall was quite correct in stating that deep setting allowed more closes. And they weren't 'selling' the info. They do, however, have something to sell so aren't exactly independent when offering up a view. Using the trite old phrase - CCS is what they ask for and if you want to be certified by IM then CCS is what you need to do. As per an ad here 'simples'.

[Bill Piche]

This is way old news here. Use the search engine and you'll see and read all about it from years ago.

[Bearcat 74]

People were setting grippers WAY before KTA came out, way before. People were using tacky instead of chalk, hence the chalk only rule. People were turning around and mashing the gripper closed, then whipping back around and showing the judge a closed gripper, hence the gripper must remain in view rule. People were holding the spring while they closed the gripper, one hand only rule.

Setting a gripper does make for an easier close, doesn't take a PhD to figure that out.

[DannyGrip]

Hey folks,

just read this small piece from an Ironmind News article:

Its training programs aside, this e-book taught people what became known as the "deep set," which in straight English meant starting one's crush with a narrower than normal gap in between the gripper handles . . . and this is when the train went off the tracks.

As if by magic, guys instantly "got stronger," as they "closed" grippers that had eluded them only a short time before. To get an idea of how effectively this deep set can work, load up a bar to 100 pounds (45 kg) over your best squat and - using proven spotters or a tested power rack - give it shot in an IPF-approved style. Next, after you've crawled out from under the bar, unload it, put it back in position, reload it, and this time, try to do a quarter squat instead of a legal lift.

Voila! This time you were successful, right?

This is what Ironmind writes about KTA. Wouldn't the quartersquat be more of an equivalent

for squeezing a gripper through the sweep, stopping before the crushdown and letting it back open?

In my opinion, a deepset would be more like starting from rockbottom and squatting it up maybe

10", going through the hardest part of the lift. Why does Ironmind try to sell these factually incorrect informations?

regards

Volko

Hey:

Doing deep set reps on a gripper is like doing bench press with the bar touching the chest and not going all the way up each time - this is used by many lifters and is great to get the hardest part of the lift stronger.

Don't pay too much attention to things you read in IronMind news about training, it's usually just limited information by someone promoting their products - not really promoting effective training methods.

Whereas, here at the GripBoard - you got a great guy who created the KTA program that has been proven time and time again to work effectively and help many people get stronger at grippers and improve grip strength dramatically.

It's no wonder why many that were certified have used this program successfully.

If you ask me - it's pretty "magical" (as IronMind states) that all the sudden the guys who do the KTA program are being certified on the #3 by IronMind's official rules !

Edited March 26, 2010 by DannyGrip

[The Natural]

Hey:

Doing deep set reps on a gripper is like doing bench press with the bar touching the chest and not going all the way up each time - this is used by many lifters and is great to get the hardest part of the lift stronger.

Don't pay too much attention to things you read in IronMind news about training, it's just usually just limited information by someone promoting their products - not really promoting effective training methods.

Whereas, here at the GripBoard - you got a great guy who created the KTA. program that has been proven time and time again to work effectively and help many people get stronger at grippers and improve grip strength dramatically.

It's no wonder why many that were certified have used the program.

If you ask me - it's pretty "magical" (as IronMind states) that all the sudden the guys who do the KTA program are being certified on the #3 by IronMind's official rules !

Randall has stated on more than one occassion that deep set training is useful.

You KTA zealots always make me laugh. Has anyone ever thought to write an unbiased account of this stale debate? I seriously feel like I'm listening to a bunch of women yammer on at a hair salon. The "pro-Ironmind" people never seem to get it and the "pro-KTA" people never get it either. In the process both camps come out looking like fools.

[DannyGrip]

Hey:

Doing deep set reps on a gripper is like doing bench press with the bar touching the chest and not going all the way up each time - this is used by many lifters and is great to get the hardest part of the lift stronger.

Don't pay too much attention to things you read in IronMind news about training, it's just usually just limited information by someone promoting their products - not really promoting effective training methods.

Whereas, here at the GripBoard - you got a great guy who created the KTA. program that has been proven time and time again to work effectively and help many people get stronger at grippers and improve grip strength dramatically.

It's no wonder why many that were certified have used the program.

If you ask me - it's pretty "magical" (as IronMind states) that all the sudden the guys who do the KTA program are being certified on the #3 by IronMind's official rules !

Randall has stated on more than one occassion that deep set training is useful.

You KTA zealots always make me laugh. Has anyone ever thought to write an unbiased account of this stale debate? I seriously feel like I'm listening to a bunch of women yammer on at a hair salon. The "pro-Ironmind" people never seem to get it and the "pro-KTA" people never get it either. In the process both camps come out looking like fools.

Yes, Randall has stated that deep set training "can" be useful at certain times but goes on to slander the program altogether, whereas you have many people vouching that the program works and has helped.

Everyone knows that a deep set close is easier than a wide set close, but that doesn't mean you can bash KTA completely and make a statement that it doesn't work nor help anyone - in fact he actually stated that KTA is just a way to cheat rather than get stronger - that doesn't make sense considering all the results we have seen.

[mobsterone]

Deep setting was a training technique used by Nathan Holle and indeed it says so in his book. But for the purposes of closing a gripper using a CCS it's just that - a technique. Whereas in other sets it's an actual way to close a gripper. Using squat and bench comparisons is null and void. Go look up the arguments for depth, suits and so on. Then look at the examples given with bench and squat. Grippers were being deep set and closed - the examples suggest the lower range bench and so on as training techniques. You can't do a lower range bench and hope to get, even with very lax refereeing, a pass on the platform and yet that's what was being asked re deep setting.

You'll note, as per a post above and with not much searching, that Randall clearly states that he changed the rules on closing grippers because of the techniques some used - not limited to just deep setting. He went on to say 'it wasn't in the spirit of the rules'. Basically people did it cos the rules didn't say they could not.

Now, again as history and a search of this site itself shows us, CCS and the harder TNS are considered the hardest of any closes of a gripper, all other aspects being equal. So, in effect, we ALL agree.

KTA is a training program not a a style of closing grippers. Ironmind and Randall have their place too. Either way it's just opinions.

[jad]

People were setting grippers WAY before KTA came out, way before. People were using tacky instead of chalk, hence the chalk only rule. People were turning around and mashing the gripper closed, then whipping back around and showing the judge a closed gripper, hence the gripper must remain in view rule. People were holding the spring while they closed the gripper, one hand only rule.

Setting a gripper does make for an easier close, doesn't take a PhD to figure that out.

YES!!!!!! And I'd even wager a guess that some of this pre-dates the evil Gripboard

[ninja64x]

all this talk , more like whinging. time spent talking and arguing about credit card sets and deep sets, could be better spent actually trying to CLOSE these damn things.