Input For A Horseshoe List Is Needed

[EricMilfeld]

I will not be attempting to calibrate horseshoes, so I need to compile a list of specific shoes, or groups of shoes most likely, in order of difficulty. But we must take into account the degree to which these particular shoes vary in difficulty. As an example, here's something I would consider:

In order from easiest to hardest

1) any St. Croix Ultra Lite shoe

2) any St. Croix Lite shoe

3) any Diamond Bronco Plain shoe

4) any St. Croix Plain shoe

This list might be too abbreviated or may have some overlap in terms of difficulty. In other words, are we sure, for example, that all Broncos are tougher than all St. Croix Lites? Maybe a limited number of sizes should be chosen for the individual brands? Anyways, some input from some of the more knowledgeable benders would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, you would be given 3 minutes to get the shoes to 180 using 1 1/4" thick wraps as the width limit.

[jpmmkrahling]

I don't know about what is harder then what, but i have learned that there are alot of shoes that fit into each catagory. Like the St Croix Lite have different styles, so maybe having a little more detail on the type would help.

[MalachiMcMullen]

From the handful of Broncos I've bent, I'd say they are pretty much the tougher shoe.

It's a pitty Diamond may stop producing shoes, otherwise those DC shoes would fit perfectly between the ULs and Ls.

I also think that the shorter the shoe, the tougher it is and that goes for the entire spectrum. I don't think a 0Lite should beat any thicker shoe, but it should beat a 1Lite and a 2Lite.

You'll either have to be careful on the shoes you put on this list or careful in being too absolute with the wrap thickness. What I would do is set a standard for the entire list. So, say something like "Your wraps cannot be more than 1 1/4" thick when wrapped around a 5/16" bar." or something like that. If you don't, it doesn't allow for things like the big Anvil Brand clydesdale shoes to be bent with the same padding as a Lite or Reg. To a degree, this is just nit-picking though, so it doesn't matter to me either way. I'll use my 8" 4 year old leathers for shoes anyway

[David_wigren]

Can't help too much with the list of strength.

I'm just gonna add my 2 cents about the cert process. Since they wont be cal'd, the shoes we bend for the certs should be documented with great detail. All markings should be shown and a digital caliper should show both the width and thickness of the steel. I've seen some shoes that come in different size even if they are the exact same brand. Take the kerckhaert SSP for example. There are one kind that are made to be 8 millimeters thick and another kind made to be 10 millimeters thick. This makes for a huge strength difference. Still the same shoe on paper (kerckhaer SSP) but totaly different in reality. Fortunatly the SSP's are marked differently if they are the thick or thin version. But there are shoes that arn't and confusion might happen. Therefor it should be well documented

[naturalstrength]

Fortunatly the SSP's are marked differently if they are the thick or thin version.

How can you tell? What are the mark differences?

[nickr104]

This is going to be a hard one Eric. You might be able to stick with one bran of shoe and one size like #2's , but that might limit things too much. You have so many sizes and so many kinds. a list might look like this if you use all kinds

St. Croix Ultra Lite #2 shoe

St. Croix polo front #2

kerckhaert S x 7 #2 front

St. Croix Lite #2 shoe

St Croix ragular Lite #2

St. Croix ragular rim #2

St. Croix Plain shoe #2

Diamond Bronco Plain shoe?

SSP ?

At this point the #2 shoes get so big for the length they are very hard! I have never bent any of the bronco shoes I have or the SSP shoes. I suck at the shorter shoes so that might be my problem with those. I by no means no it all. the bigger shoe are going to be the hard ones to place. You would have to go with 3's, 4's, or 5's with the big shoes. I hope this helps some.

Edited September 19, 2009 by nickr104

[David_wigren]

Fortunatly the SSP's are marked differently if they are the thick or thin version.

How can you tell? What are the mark differences?

The "SSP" marking on the thicker shoe is higher up on the leg. I've had this in mind while looking at bending videos and noone have bent this on video so far to my knowlodge. I can post a picture of the difference in a couple of days.

This is just one example of this with the kerckhaert alone. The kerckhaert are very consistent but they offer their shoes in a very wide range of thicknesses. I'm sure that other brands might do the same, wich could lead to confusion. Wich is why it I think it will be neccesary to document the thickness with a digital caliper. I think that it should be included in the rules. Either that or cal the shoes.

[naturalstrength]

Fortunatly the SSP's are marked differently if they are the thick or thin version.

How can you tell? What are the mark differences?

The "SSP" marking on the thicker shoe is higher up on the leg. I've had this in mind while looking at bending videos and noone have bent this on video so far to my knowlodge. I can post a picture of the difference in a couple of days.

This is just one example of this with the kerckhaert alone. The kerckhaert are very consistent but they offer their shoes in a very wide range of thicknesses. I'm sure that other brands might do the same, wich could lead to confusion. Wich is why it I think it will be neccesary to document the thickness with a digital caliper. I think that it should be included in the rules. Either that or cal the shoes.

David, have you had a chance to bend both the 8mm and 10mm SSP?

[Tim71]

Easiest to hardest in my experience

St Croix ultra lights

St Croix Polos

Diamond classics

St croix lite rims

I don't know if the regular rim St croixs are harder or easier than the "regular" lites.

I didn't take shoe bending very far but I'd definately say those are the 4 "easiest".

Good luck.

Tim

[David_wigren]

David, have you had a chance to bend both the 8mm and 10mm SSP?

With the 8mm SSP I could 180 a size 3 in about 10-20 seconds. With the 10 mm SSP I've only taken a size 5 to 180. And a 10 degree kink or so on a 10 mm SSP size 3

The thick ones are sick. Wich is natural since they've got 25% ore steel in them. Logically they would be at lest 25% stronger (feels way more though)

[naturalstrength]

David, have you had a chance to bend both the 8mm and 10mm SSP?

With the 8mm SSP I could 180 a size 3 in about 10-20 seconds. With the 10 mm SSP I've only taken a size 5 to 180. And a 10 degree kink or so on a 10 mm SSP size 3

The thick ones are sick. Wich is natural since they've got 25% ore steel in them. Logically they would be at lest 25% stronger (feels way more though)

Have you finished off the AB shoe you bent previously to 90 degrees? Dave, do you fancy a friendly competition for the quickest speed bend on a 8mm SSP #3

[David_wigren]

David, have you had a chance to bend both the 8mm and 10mm SSP?

With the 8mm SSP I could 180 a size 3 in about 10-20 seconds. With the 10 mm SSP I've only taken a size 5 to 180. And a 10 degree kink or so on a 10 mm SSP size 3

The thick ones are sick. Wich is natural since they've got 25% ore steel in them. Logically they would be at lest 25% stronger (feels way more though)

Have you finished off the AB shoe you bent previously to 90 degrees? Dave, do you fancy a friendly competition for the quickest speed bend on a 8mm SSP #3

Sorry man but my back wouldn't allow me (stupid technique during deadlift) Not for at least 3-4 weeks. But then you are horsemeat

Edit- no I never finished the AB. Dead frozen at 90. I tried a couple of times and it just laughed at me

Edited September 20, 2009 by David_wigren

[naturalstrength]

David, have you had a chance to bend both the 8mm and 10mm SSP?

With the 8mm SSP I could 180 a size 3 in about 10-20 seconds. With the 10 mm SSP I've only taken a size 5 to 180. And a 10 degree kink or so on a 10 mm SSP size 3

The thick ones are sick. Wich is natural since they've got 25% ore steel in them. Logically they would be at lest 25% stronger (feels way more though)

Have you finished off the AB shoe you bent previously to 90 degrees? Dave, do you fancy a friendly competition for the quickest speed bend on a 8mm SSP #3

Sorry man but my back wouldn't allow me (stupid technique during deadlift) Not for at least 3-4 weeks. But then you are horsemeat

Edit- no I never finished the AB. Dead frozen at 90. I tried a couple of times and it just laughed at me

Sorry to hear about your back David. Hope you recover quickly!! As far as the AB shoe, getting that thing to 90 degrees is INCREDIBLE! I know you will finish it in due time We will begin the horseshoe duel once you heal up, although I feel bad about beating a wounded opponent

[EricMilfeld]

What do you guys think about this other idea I have? Say we choose two different shoes, one on the large side and the other much smaller. I'm thinking shoes that are pretty difficult, that perhaps only a few dozen guys could bend. The idea is to rank the benders according to how short they can cut the shoe in quarter inch increments and still get it to 180. With this route it wouldn't require all the subjective ranking of various shoes and would demonstrate the strength of the bender in a very straightforward manner. I have all the smaller details worked out in my head, but I'd like some initial reactions first. Anyways, there would be two separate lists, one highlighting the best small shoe benders, and the other the large shoe benders. I'm kind of liking this idea the best the more I think on it.

[cemery]

Easiest to hardest IMO

st croix ultra light

st croix polo

Diamond classic

st croix lite rimmed

st croix lite

thats all I'm familliar with.

[Tim71]

What do you guys think about this other idea I have? Say we choose two different shoes, one on the large side and the other much smaller. I'm thinking shoes that are pretty difficult, that perhaps only a few dozen guys could bend. The idea is to rank the benders according to how short they can cut the shoe in quarter inch increments and still get it to 180. With this route it wouldn't require all the subjective ranking of various shoes and would demonstrate the strength of the bender in a very straightforward manner. I have all the smaller details worked out in my head, but I'd like some initial reactions first. Anyways, there would be two separate lists, one highlighting the best small shoe benders, and the other the large shoe benders. I'm kind of liking this idea the best the more I think on it.

Eric, to a tech head like yourself that may be good but I can see it taking much of the fun out of it for some. Bending is alot about trophys, and with your idea you'd have a "cut up" trophy so to speak. Technically, an innovative and great idea but it may turn some off.

I'm not a great shoe bender anyway though so don't rank my opinion too high.

Tim

[EricMilfeld]

Good points, Tim.

Thanks a bunch for all the invaluable input, guys.

I've constructed and pinned two horseshoe lists. Check them out and let me know if there are any glaring errors.

[EricMilfeld]

I made the shoe list new and improved, including the name.

But I really need to know if in the sizes "00" and "3" the plain regulars are always tougher than the rimmed regulars.

[nickr104]

I made the shoe list new and improved, including the name.

But I really need to know if in the sizes "00" and "3" the plain regulars are always tougher than the rimmed regulars.

I would say yes to the 3 size Eric. I have never tried the smaller ones.

[EricMilfeld]

Thanks, Nick!

Is it safe to say, as I have the list arranged, that the St. Croix rimmed lites are easier than the plain lites?

[nickr104]

I would also say yes to that as well Eric.

[naturalstrength]

I would also say yes to that as well Eric.

Rimmed St. Croix are significantly easier than plain lights without question!!!