Front Lever

[The Natural]

What's the unofficial front lever record? Single hammer or two at once. Anyone done two 12's? Or a single with more than 12? Coin on the end, of course. Full lockout. No cheating. I don't want this to turn into another gay hammer thread. Just a simple "So and so did this" is fine.

-Rex

[jad]

What's the unofficial front lever record? Single hammer or two at once. Anyone done two 12's? Or a single with more than 12? Coin on the end, of course. Full lockout. No cheating. I don't want this to turn into another gay hammer thread. Just a simple "So and so did this" is fine.

-Rex

Without getting into Slim's stuff, I think your video of the 12 is the highest?

[The Natural]

What's the unofficial front lever record? Single hammer or two at once. Anyone done two 12's? Or a single with more than 12? Coin on the end, of course. Full lockout. No cheating. I don't want this to turn into another gay hammer thread. Just a simple "So and so did this" is fine.

-Rex

Without getting into Slim's stuff, I think your video of the 12 is the highest?

Josh, I watched it again and there was no coin on the end, if a coin had been on it, I think it would have fallen off.

BTW, what has Slim done? I figured he held the unofficial record for this too, just didn't know what he did.

-Rex

[EricMilfeld]

I think levering has become Rex's strongest event. Grasping a 12 pound hammer by the handle's end and keeping it parallel from the floor to a standing position is absolutely incredible.

[The Natural]

I think levering has become Rex's strongest event. Grasping a 12 pound hammer by the handle's end and keeping it parallel from the floor to a standing position is absolutely incredible.

I appreciate that, coming from Eric, but what makes me doubt it is this exchange from last year:

At the GGC, Chris, Andrew D., and some others were a bit curious when I said I could lift a 12 pound sledge with hand just an inch from the end, while keeping it level. They seemed to suggest this was uncommon and I wasn't quite sure myself whether it was a 12 or not after talking to them. I told Chris in a PM a while back that I'd tape me doing this one day.

Well, here it is! As usual, Aaron offered priceless commentary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5gOKyPsU4

-Rex

P.S. I also did Blob C&J in same session, first time on video. I tried to snatch it but it ended up being a C&J.

Typing at my gym owner's computer,

-Rex

Good work with the Blob, Rex.

The sledge lift looked painful. What can you lift with a straight wrist?

I don't really know a lot about sledging. I don't train it, don't know the different positions.

Is the straight-wrist movement when your arm is out front and you let the sledge fall backwards near your head before straightening?

Also, let me know if I did not do this lift correctly. Thinking after the fact, I realize I forgot to put a penny on the end.

Thanks man.

-Rex

Rex what I thought you were talking about during our conversation is a little different that what you did here (although this is crazy hard). The lift I expected to see is where you keep your arm straight down more or less and the sledge level to the floor while picking it up - sort of like a front Weaver Stick. Give that one a try as well sometime. I don't know a name for what you did but I know it about broke my wrist when I tried it. I think both ways are crazy impressive - give the other way a way some time too please.

Chris seems to be suggesting here that what I did in the video is not a proper front lever. So I'm not sure what to think right now about the 12 I did.

-Rex

[MalachiMcMullen]

Chris seems to be suggesting here that what I did in the video is not a proper front lever. So I'm not sure what to think right now about the 12 I did.

-Rex

There are two different ways to front lever, neither is superior. There is the way that Brouse and I do it, and the way that yourself and others do it. I'm apparently not concise enough to explain the difference, so I wont bother. Since this lift is hardly performed by anyone, it hardly has a "proper" way of being done. I'm willing to bet Slim did front levers with a bent arm.

I haven't the foggiest what the most done is but a 12lber can't be far off.

[jad]

What's the unofficial front lever record? Single hammer or two at once. Anyone done two 12's? Or a single with more than 12? Coin on the end, of course. Full lockout. No cheating. I don't want this to turn into another gay hammer thread. Just a simple "So and so did this" is fine.

-Rex

Without getting into Slim's stuff, I think your video of the 12 is the highest?

Josh, I watched it again and there was no coin on the end, if a coin had been on it, I think it would have fallen off.

BTW, what has Slim done? I figured he held the unofficial record for this too, just didn't know what he did.

-Rex

I'm not sure, it seems like anytime you start asking about Slim's records people get pissed off, especially when the conversation turns to handle length and wrist wraps. Dont' get me wrong, I can understand his POV considering he put sledge levering on the map and you have snotnoses saying he needs video or documentation of this or that or that his handles weren't the official length...."official" should be defined by him not the GB. Then you have to realize that he was a showman and so the stuff that people call his records are feats he could perform with ease in front of crowds and were hardly max efforts. That said, I wish he would just give a straight answer or maybe more accurately, his group of friends with internet access would relay his answer (i.e "here's my record, here are the handle lengths, this is how it was performed,). It could be a lift he did one time in training with no witness, in his basement, and that would be the one I'd chase.

As for the different types of front lever. I think the "official" grip contest one is the coin method that Bob used in his medley. Makes judging a snap. When I was a kid growing up we would always try to front lever sledges or axes and the way we did it was:

1 arm locked into side and straight down.

2. Sledge standing on its head or angled enough to allow proper start position (depended on height of participant)

3. Grasp sledge and bending wrist only, bring up to parallel.

This would be a BEAR to judge; "Foul, your arm moved", "Foul, your arm bent". However, in this manner, I've never seen anybody do an 8# like this. Chris's method seems to be a combination of the two.

We used also try the front lever deadlift/coin-style method with a brick and a broom. You had to have a good stiff whisk broom and place a brick on the end and keep it level enough to prevent the brick from falling off. Nobody was ever close but I knew it was possible due to choking up. Haven't tried it since I got into grip, not sure of how hard it really is.

[climber511]

The old brick on the broom trick. The way I learned this one was in a bar. Instead of a brick - you set a six pack on the whisk part of the broom laying on the floor - grabbed the end and picked it up level enough the beer didn't fall off - if you couldn't pick it up - no beer for you. It seemed like the strong guys were getting all the beer so I got strong - at least strong enough to have a cold one now and then.

It really isn't that tough - give it a try.

[jad]

The old brick on the broom trick. The way I learned this one was in a bar. Instead of a brick - you set a six pack on the whisk part of the broom laying on the floor - grabbed the end and picked it up level enough the beer didn't fall off - if you couldn't pick it up - no beer for you. It seemed like the strong guys were getting all the beer so I got strong - at least strong enough to have a cold one now and then.

It really isn't that tough - give it a try.

I like yours much better! Very disappointed that we never thought of this during my bar days!

[The Natural]

I'm not sure, it seems like anytime you start asking about Slim's records people get pissed off, especially when the conversation turns to handle length and wrist wraps. Dont' get me wrong, I can understand his POV considering he put sledge levering on the map and you have snotnoses saying he needs video or documentation of this or that or that his handles weren't the official length...."official" should be defined by him not the GB. Then you have to realize that he was a showman and so the stuff that people call his records are feats he could perform with ease in front of crowds and were hardly max efforts. That said, I wish he would just give a straight answer or maybe more accurately, his group of friends with internet access would relay his answer (i.e "here's my record, here are the handle lengths, this is how it was performed, Good Luck Pussy!"). It could be a lift he did one time in training with no witness, in his basement, and that would be the one I'd chase.

Allright. I get the feeling that the more unscrupulous Slim devotees might just apply the formula of "current Gripboard record, whatever that may be, plus 5 pounds", so I think asking for them to come out of the woodwork will only confuse things.

I'll do the 12 again some time with the coin, and that will just be the unofficial world record until someone breaks it.

-Rex

Edited September 5, 2009 by The Natural

[jad]

I'm not sure, it seems like anytime you start asking about Slim's records people get pissed off, especially when the conversation turns to handle length and wrist wraps. Dont' get me wrong, I can understand his POV considering he put sledge levering on the map and you have snotnoses saying he needs video or documentation of this or that or that his handles weren't the official length...."official" should be defined by him not the GB. Then you have to realize that he was a showman and so the stuff that people call his records are feats he could perform with ease in front of crowds and were hardly max efforts. That said, I wish he would just give a straight answer or maybe more accurately, his group of friends with internet access would relay his answer (i.e "here's my record, here are the handle lengths, this is how it was performed, Good Luck Pussy!"). It could be a lift he did one time in training with no witness, in his basement, and that would be the one I'd chase.

Allright. I get the feeling that the more unscrupulous Slim devotees might just apply the formula of "current Gripboard record, whatever that may be, plus 5 pounds", so I think asking for them to come out of the woodwork will only confuse things.

I'll do the 12 again some time with the coin, and that will just be the unofficial world record until someone breaks it.

-Rex

I like the sound of this!

[MalachiMcMullen]

I'm not sure, it seems like anytime you start asking about Slim's records people get pissed off, especially when the conversation turns to handle length and wrist wraps. Dont' get me wrong, I can understand his POV considering he put sledge levering on the map and you have snotnoses saying he needs video or documentation of this or that or that his handles weren't the official length...."official" should be defined by him not the GB. Then you have to realize that he was a showman and so the stuff that people call his records are feats he could perform with ease in front of crowds and were hardly max efforts. That said, I wish he would just give a straight answer or maybe more accurately, his group of friends with internet access would relay his answer (i.e "here's my record, here are the handle lengths, this is how it was performed, Good Luck Pussy!"). It could be a lift he did one time in training with no witness, in his basement, and that would be the one I'd chase.

Allright. I get the feeling that the more unscrupulous Slim devotees might just apply the formula of "current Gripboard record, whatever that may be, plus 5 pounds", so I think asking for them to come out of the woodwork will only confuse things.

I'll do the 12 again some time with the coin, and that will just be the unofficial world record until someone breaks it.

-Rex

I like the sound of this!

And I too.

[rico300zx]

How about if we get some questions for slim and get jed to interview him on gripstrength radio, he lives about 15 min from me and I think he is in my phone book, he could give us some lowdown on these lifts? How about it jed?

Rico

[twig]

How about if we get some questions for slim and get jed to interview him on gripstrength radio, he lives about 15 min from me and I think he is in my phone book, he could give us some lowdown on these lifts? How about it jed?

Rico

That would be a great way to go; failing that, I think this:

I'll do the 12 again some time with the coin, and that will just be the unofficial world record until someone breaks it.

is the best way to go.

[Bob Lipinski]

Rex, you are the best I have heard of in recent times.

You want records? Probably the best "front lever" record I know is John Grimek with a 10 pound Weaver stick to the front. That is an unofficial record with some serious history behind it.

Also, you could try the slim style levering he did with one hand from the ground, where you pivot the hammer up. I think 24-27 was the most I have heard of him doing in that fashion.

[gumpster]

I'll do the 12 again some time with the coin, and that will just be the unofficial world record until someone breaks it.

-Rex

That sounds like a good idea. Your front hammer lifting is equal to the best I've seen or heard of. Make sure you show the measurement of the handle and the weight so nobody will have anything to complain about. Will this be done with your pinkie at the 31" mark like they have used for the overhead levering at contests?

[The Natural]

Gumpster sent me a video download in a PM regarding this topic, but he did not know who the person was in the video. I remembered watching it before. After some searching I found it. It's Goody. (I'd make a great detective).

Anyway, Gumpster says this is a front lever with a 12 pound hammer, though it looks to be a different lift than what I've done.

I need someone who knows more about levering than me to explain what's going on in this video.

-Rex

[MalachiMcMullen]

Goody's 12lber there was as much a front lever as your 10lb front lever vid(out of curiosity, can you do it the way he did? ). As I said earlier, the definition seems to change from person to person. I've dealt with Bob and a few others since I started hammers and they've always called certain things front levers; I now do the same. Since they've been used in a few comps now, more people use the same definition. A front lever is simply any lever done to the front. Goody's was clearly to the front and was a lever, so it was a front lever.

If you want to turn this into a typical GB thread fine, but you should know that you are now interested in and dabbling in an area where definitions have never been clearly set out. In the strictest GB competition sense, your 10 and 12lb front lever vids were front levers. In the real world, where people outside the GB know about levers, some people call other things front levers. Some people call Slim's levers from the floor front levers too, and why not? They are a lever, and they are done with the weight in front of you. A parallel deadlift from the floor with a quarter on the head eases judging, so that is probably what will stick as a front lever, no matter what you decide to argue.

Edited September 6, 2009 by MalachiMcMullen

[Bob Lipinski]

Just define whatever it is you do. I would call what Rex does the typical "front lever" that I think about when I mention it, but who gives a **** about exact terminology, you did a deadlift in front with a 12 pound hammer and that is very very good.

If you honestly want to be very good at front levers, you should be good at all kinds. You've got a talent, exploit it.

[climber511]

I'm not arguing but is a "static hold" a lever? We "lever" a sledge to our nose, face, head , whatever - we don't static hold it there. Is a Weaver Stick lift (either front or rear) a "lever"? Rex's 12# hold and carry is way strong but "levering" something implies some sort of movement in my mind - or does it? It's only a matter or wording and is not meant to take anything from the accomplishments of anyone. Starting one at the floor and "levering" it up to horizontal with arm at side - doing it like Goody ending up with arm out front - Slim's from the floor start - or doing like Rex did and holding to horizontal are simply different lifts - not to take anything from any of them - they are just different is all. So a solid set of definitions would make for less confusion down the road.

[The Natural]

I'm not arguing but is a "static hold" a lever? We "lever" a sledge to our nose, face, head , whatever - we don't static hold it there. Is a Weaver Stick lift (either front or rear) a "lever"? Rex's 12# hold and carry is way strong but "levering" something implies some sort of movement in my mind - or does it? It's only a matter or wording and is not meant to take anything from the accomplishments of anyone. Starting one at the floor and "levering" it up to horizontal with arm at side - doing it like Goody ending up with arm out front - Slim's from the floor start - or doing like Rex did and holding to horizontal are simply different lifts - not to take anything from any of them - they are just different is all. So a solid set of definitions would make for less confusion down the road.

Very good points all around Chris, the main one being something I was thinking about yesterday, but Zach is right, faggage is on the horizon, threatening to taint this thread. We'll stop right here.

Take home points

"Front Lever" alone has no clear definition.

What I'm doing in the vid is a clearly defined type of lift, whether or not 'front lever' is.

So when I do the 12 again, I'll just explain the 'rules' for what I'm doing and give it a name there, and maybe the name will stick.

-Rex

[MalachiMcMullen]

I'm not arguing but is a "static hold" a lever? We "lever" a sledge to our nose, face, head , whatever - we don't static hold it there. Is a Weaver Stick lift (either front or rear) a "lever"? Rex's 12# hold and carry is way strong but "levering" something implies some sort of movement in my mind - or does it? It's only a matter or wording and is not meant to take anything from the accomplishments of anyone. Starting one at the floor and "levering" it up to horizontal with arm at side - doing it like Goody ending up with arm out front - Slim's from the floor start - or doing like Rex did and holding to horizontal are simply different lifts - not to take anything from any of them - they are just different is all. So a solid set of definitions would make for less confusion down the road.

Very good points all around Chris, the main one being something I was thinking about yesterday, but Zach is right, faggage is on the horizon, threatening to taint this thread. We'll stop right here.

Take home points

"Front Lever" alone has no clear definition.

What I'm doing in the vid is a clearly defined type of lift, whether or not 'front lever' is.

So when I do the 12 again, I'll just explain the 'rules' for what I'm doing and give it a name there, and maybe the name will stick.

-Rex

[mbcx6pmw]

I used to do the parallel deadlifts sometimes, I always referred to them as front lever lifts. I thought Slim's record lever from the floor was a pair of 28s, don't know about the deadlift style though.

[Paul Knight]

if I were to label a hammer lift "front lever" ... it would be described as this:

picking the hammer up an inch or 2 of the ground while it is in a vertical position (head towards the ground, handle straight up)

pause - then without any kind of swing begin to lever the hammer towards taking it to parallel w/the ground and proceed to keep levering until you wind up in the position when you would normally perform a trad lever to the nose/forehead.

I would also have to say that your hand should be at the very end of the handle ... if the handle is longer than 31" inches, then cut the handle down to 31 or simply do a more difficult feat by having your hand at the very end of a longer than required handle according to the 31" standard. The reason I say this is because I feel like the excess handle sticking out from behind your hand could be posted on your wrist or even a hair up your forearm depending on the length of the handle making it less challenging.

I've already read everyones posts and realize that "front lever" means different things to different people, this is simply what I originally pictured in my mind when reading a title of a youtube video and then was dissapointed after watching the guy plant his hand on a towel and push down to lift it up. I was new to grip then so had no kind if bias, it was just not what I pictured by the name of the title.

[CoC#3]

To me, a front lever is a lift where you grab a hammer by the end of the handle, lift it to full lockout and show that it is under control. The hammer must be kept parallel with the floor throughout, the way Rex shows this with a coin is a good idea.