Solution 4 Gripper Inconsistency?

[EricMilfeld]

Perhaps this isn't a new idea, but would it work? IM manufactures and bench tests a #3 to be within, say, 5 percent of 280 lbs. I think those serious about attaining a verifiable, world class level of crushing strength would be willing to pay the extra $ necessary to make the project profitable for Dr. Strossen. Is that horse dead yet? Of course, they could continue manufacturing their current line of grippers, and even keep the CoC list intact. This may delay or prevent some of us from making the list, but in the long run I believe a sense of fairness would be restored to the certification process.

[Bill Piche]

Perhaps this isn't a new idea, but would it work? IM manufactures and bench tests a #3 to be within, say, 5 percent of 280 lbs.

Goodness Eric. Please read past posts on this board. Your first statement including the 280lbs imaginary figure is enough misinformation to tell me you need to come up to speed on this whole gripper saga. It's best done by spending some time reading the bazillions of posts on this topic.

[EricMilfeld]

Wannagrip, I do understand that the figure of 280 is basically meaningless, and therein lies my point. I am suggesting that perhaps IM could produce a gripper of world class poundage consistently and accurately, if the consumer is willing to pick up the tab. I used the 280 only as an arbitrary example. It's because I have read a few of the past posts that I touched on the difficult topic.

[mobsterone]

I think Wannas point still applies. Prior to the board going members only Randall, indeed anyone that cared to, will have seen the posts and the problems.

I have put it another way before. He is a business man, his reputation relies in part on the grippers. The quality of his range and the readability of the books and mags he produces are outstanding. However, many have tried and I include PDA, to produce a standardized and accurately rated gripper. It is the nature of how the spring is compressed on a gripper which makes it impossible or at least near impossible. As for paying a premium he would have to admit the problem existed and has also said that more care etc goes into making the 3's and 4's.

The main crux of any argument has always been along the lines of 'how, if the catalog says its 280 pounds etc, can you say that it is that rated pressure?'. The answer is you cannot but Randall has yet to admit that. I know, just from handling 4 x No 3 coc grippers that there is variation. I have my own, I have felt and tested 2 of David Horne's and I have also squeezed Simon Lodges. One of David's and Simons CoC 3 grippers were easier to shut than mine.

I have also posted in the past and have seen a post recently which said it was the way to go. For a sense of accomplishment buy one, train to shut it, shut it, and get certified. Don't worry about easier or harder grippers unless you are a gripper collector. Don't let that put you off studying spring technology and or metallurgy. You might yet solve the problem.

[Roark]

If a gripper machine were loaded to between 400 and 500 pounds, and this was referred to as 'Level #4'- we

would judge that it was a vague setting: that the man who squeezed the machine handles closed at 400 pounds

was not as strong as the man squeezing 500 pounds.

Further, when told of the feat the first fact sought would be, 'How much weight was on the machine'? If told that

such information was not relevant, we would know the

person making such a statement was not the person to

whom any further questions should be directed.

[Bill Piche]

Prior to the board going members only Randall, indeed anyone that cared to, will have seen the posts and the problems.

Members only? This board? This board always has been and remains free to the public.

[mobsterone]

Sorry I was referring to parts of Cyberpump

[The Mac]

I thought that. But I'd just come back from the pub so didn't want to say anything

I know we've done this to death in the past and got nowhere - the situation still needs sorting out, however......

Edited December 24, 2002 by The Mac

[Rick Browne]

Do you recall the saying... "Remember The Alamo"? I say

"Remember John Szimanski from PDA". He too felt the need to

sort out the problems of grippers. And he did a remarkable job!

However, grippers as John will tell you, are a low end hardware

item and are just was not worth the end hassle of time and

expenditure to provide consistent ip ratings.

If Szimanski can`t do it ..then no one can

zcor out

[mobsterone]

I remembered John by mentioning PDA.

[Rick Browne]

And it was very well stated Mobster The gist

of my post was that grippers are low end hardware

with marginal profit. Or so it seems

[mobsterone]

Ok would making the grippers hi-end make a difference and if so how much would we be willing to spend - the so-called premium. As a bunch of gripsters would £50-£75.00 ($70-100.00) be too much?

[Rick Browne]

Lord no! I would not spend that kind of money on a gripper!

Even if it played "God save the Queen" when the handles

were touched

IronMind has got a good gig going with the price that is set.

With their reccomendation that one should progress to the

#3 by working with the T,1 and 2 first, they could not possibly

have a premium price on the lower level grippers. Who would

buy them?

I do think they should put more effort into the #3 consistency

closure pressure though. Guaranteeing the 280lbs. is plus or

minus 1 %

Have a good Christmas Mobster. Hope you get the MDB solid

[mobsterone]

What about the Stars and Stripes?

[Rick Browne]

Mobster keep going and we will make you a "Yank" yet

By the way my percentage should above should read .1%

[Scott Styles]

I do believe there are two solutions to the problem of COC inconsistency:

1. Use the Ivanko Supergripper as the standard. Relatively inexpensive ($26 delivered from Weightlifters Warehouse in the US), and if my understanding of the physics is correct, reasonably consistent.

2. Use the Gripinator or some other grip machine as the standard. This is much more cumbersome and expensive. Probably more accurate as well.

PDA has attempted to encourage 1, with their offer of a free spring to anyone closing the Supergripper on the highest settings. Perhaps a closing list of this should be maintained? I have no idea if it is easier or harder than a #3.

Of course, the picture in Milo is probably a big part of the appeal for becoming a COC.

[Tom Black]

I would think that the springs on the Ivanco gripper are just as inconsistent as the Ironminds, maybe more, considering the type of spring used. I know the springs that they used years ago, for instance, were smaller and easier. We just haven't beat the subject of the Ivanko gripper to death!

[Roark]

Perhaps one day the subject will become

beaten to life- a realization of the truth? If

the variances were not sun bright obvious,

there would be no discussion.

[Rick Browne]

We all at least now know from John S. that the torsion springs

of our beloved grippers have a loss of initial torque rating after

75-100 full closures (seasoned). Then the T spring should level

out to its' natural torque level and remain so throughout the life

of the gripper.

Supergripper using the extension type spring has no tension

rating at rest. It provides tension by resisting the pull of the

handle thus becoming now a compression spring.

The main fatiguing of an extension spring would be at the loop

ends where the loop attaches to the handles. The loop itself

bearing the brunt of this fatigue.

I have an Ivanko SG that is about 10 yrs.old. Original springs.

Maybe the a way to see if the springs have fatigued will be

to get new springs from PDA and compare. I believe PDA

sells single springs without buying a new SG.

I`ll shoot John S. an email and ask after New Years

[Rick Browne]

Also, it is recommended to leave the handles of the

SG unlocked after use. This would relieve any pulling

tension on the springs however small that is

[Guest Youngguy]

Technology will prevail , well it never stops growing. The heavy-duty gripper has not been around long enough to make such improvements, such as fine-tuning to precise measurements. Look at the Ivanko weight plates. From what I heard they are about 98% or near perfect in accuracy. I don't know that 98% is really what it is, but I think you guys see my point. They have been around for a while to my understanding. I would say give it another 5-10 years. Yea a long time to weight, but in that time the grippers should be really accurate if indeed anyone out there including IM are working to make there grippers better.

It would be nice though to get a gripper that is what it says it is, but that isn’t a problem.