bicio Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I'm training with a girl for the worlds... (she will be there ) She has a very good arm (She's 68kg and she can do 3set 15reps with 20kg Full r.o.m. ) and an incredible overall strength and during the training we study about all techniques... She has a little problem with her ring and last fingers... These last two fingers creates a bad hole in her top-roll movement, because her wrist is not so solid and i pull her fingers away with any problem in about any position (i'm not so big ) She's basicly a Hooker but the top-roll seems to be the real problem.. because even in a deep hook if you can not squeeze your last fingers a good toproller could top-roll you any time. Can you explain the right exercises to build strength for this problem?? Thank you in advance Bicio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyjoe Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Couple of things might help: 1) Plate curls 2) Practice pulling her by grabbing her fingers and make her work her fingers by trying to curl her fingers in while you have a handshake hold on them. If I didn't explain this well let me know and I'll try again. 3) Toproll with her a lot! There's many other ways but they require special made implements. The above 3 suggestions should help a lot. 4) Another thing to do during practice is for you to start in a hook position and have her try and roll out of it and vise versa. This really works the fingers HARD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrojetred Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Have her do pull ups on a thick bar, 2" plus. She can also lift with a thick bar. And just practice top rolling. Top roll her. Don't let her give up, either. Tell her to use every ounce of her strength to keep her grip. Low hand top roll her. Rip open her fingers. Also, make sure she is fully recovered before she pulls. Try pulling 100% just once a week, and go easy on the non AW workouts. She needs time to recover. It will takes months, but she'll get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicio Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 Have her do pull ups on a thick bar, 2" plus. She can also lift with a thick bar. And just practice top rolling. Top roll her. Don't let her give up, either. Tell her to use every ounce of her strength to keep her grip. Low hand top roll her. Rip open her fingers. Also, make sure she is fully recovered before she pulls. Try pulling 100% just once a week, and go easy on the non AW workouts. She needs time to recover. It will takes months, but she'll get there. I agree with you 100% And now there is the first mistake... She push hard on AW training as you wrote 1 time a wek, but the day after almost 3times a week (she train with his boyfriend) she push so hard with weights.... i've already tell her that this is the right way to get into a big wrist tendonitis.... infact 3days ago she told me about a wirst pain.... I'm angry for that because she has the worlds on September and to heal can take also many many days from now. Now the proble is how to let her heal?? Absolute Rest?? Active recovery?? Train normally cutting off only the painmakers exercises?? I really don't know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verdigriz Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 It depends on the severity of the pain...everyone gets wrist pain now and then. If its so much pain as to be intolerable then of course you cant continue. If its medium pain maybe a week off is good. If its a slight pain then maybe 3 days off is enough and then active recovery for a week and then full training again. All in all, you aint gonna gain much more strength in the last 2 weeks of a comp so if possible aim training and rehab for a big layoff/compensation period before the comp. If I have an injury I work on what I said above....bad injury=no lifting until theres significant healing, medium=a week off roughly, slight strain=3 days off and then active recovery. Thats only the upper limbs, In between this I will do any other compound exercise that doesnt hurt the injured area. Hope that helps. PS. Each person is different and each injury the same, so its all about monitoring the injury and making judgements where appropriate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judoboy Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 thick bar, rope & towel work is good for finger strength & flexibility. pretty much any regular lift can be done with a towel or rope, i guess this also applies to AW practice. best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raikkonen Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 if shes training for sommit in september then her gym workouts should be light and maybe just do once or twice a week and she now should be just pulling really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrojetred Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Have her do pull ups on a thick bar, 2" plus. She can also lift with a thick bar. And just practice top rolling. Top roll her. Don't let her give up, either. Tell her to use every ounce of her strength to keep her grip. Low hand top roll her. Rip open her fingers. Also, make sure she is fully recovered before she pulls. Try pulling 100% just once a week, and go easy on the non AW workouts. She needs time to recover. It will takes months, but she'll get there. I agree with you 100% And now there is the first mistake... She push hard on AW training as you wrote 1 time a wek, but the day after almost 3times a week (she train with his boyfriend) she push so hard with weights.... i've already tell her that this is the right way to get into a big wrist tendonitis.... infact 3days ago she told me about a wirst pain.... I'm angry for that because she has the worlds on September and to heal can take also many many days from now. Now the proble is how to let her heal?? Absolute Rest?? Active recovery?? Train normally cutting off only the painmakers exercises?? I really don't know.... STOP PULLING. super light lifting, like 20% of max. And don't lift a thing a week before the tourny. Tell her to keep up the cardio. Bike ride, run. That stamina increase over the week will really help her. let me know how everything turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsith19 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Lol one guy says mostly just pulling and another says stop pulling and just light gym workouts. Well I think it'd be fine to keep pulling for now, maybe take 3 weeks off the table or even 2 should be enough if she's not hurting bad... maybe 3 weeks off the table before Worlds and just do light workouts up until a week before and then just cardio or nothing. That's what I would do anyways if it were me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicio Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Lol one guy says mostly just pulling and another says stop pulling and just light gym workouts. Well I think it'd be fine to keep pulling for now, maybe take 3 weeks off the table or even 2 should be enough if she's not hurting bad... maybe 3 weeks off the table before Worlds and just do light workouts up until a week before and then just cardio or nothing. That's what I would do anyways if it were me. Ok We've got a light table training... actually she's working hard so her wrists are under pressure for at least 8 hrs/day ... finished table time she was quite good.... she can't flex her wrist (relaxed) with other hand.... (it hurts too much) but if she bend the wrist with the fingers closed and forced there is no pain... (i start to think she is a little bit overtrainied) By the way.... stopping at ALL is a big mistake, active recovery with pullups (no pain doing that), a continuos table training, contrast baths every training session should be good... for the first 2 weeks then (if there is an improvement) try to push only to table for the last week... one week or 10 days OFF at all (only cardio) and then competition..... IMO this shuold be the best to approach to competition IN THIS CASE.... only 'cause pushing too much on weights/lifting could be dangerous so i prefer Table time. Let me know if i'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33wes Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Lol one guy says mostly just pulling and another says stop pulling and just light gym workouts. Well I think it'd be fine to keep pulling for now, maybe take 3 weeks off the table or even 2 should be enough if she's not hurting bad... maybe 3 weeks off the table before Worlds and just do light workouts up until a week before and then just cardio or nothing. That's what I would do anyways if it were me. Ok We've got a light table training... actually she's working hard so her wrists are under pressure for at least 8 hrs/day ... finished table time she was quite good.... she can't flex her wrist (relaxed) with other hand.... (it hurts too much) but if she bend the wrist with the fingers closed and forced there is no pain... (i start to think she is a little bit overtrainied) By the way.... stopping at ALL is a big mistake, active recovery with pullups (no pain doing that), a continuos table training, contrast baths every training session should be good... for the first 2 weeks then (if there is an improvement) try to push only to table for the last week... one week or 10 days OFF at all (only cardio) and then competition..... IMO this shuold be the best to approach to competition IN THIS CASE.... only 'cause pushing too much on weights/lifting could be dangerous so i prefer Table time. Let me know if i'm wrong. You could add ball rotation to the mix, especially in the wrist/palms up position, as that should gradually loosen the wrist in a partially flexed position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicio Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Explain the exercise.. i think i don't understand .. is that like the rehab exerc. with 2 balls... or another one (if you post a link to a video is even better ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33wes Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The exercise can be a warm up, rehab or a strength exercise unto itself. You have two chinese balls (found at martial arts stores, Ironmind, etc). Hold them in your hands and begin rotating them toward your thumb, using your fingers to keep the balls moving. You can also use them in the same manner, palms up in approximately the same position as when ready to shake someone's hand. I'm not sure how to post it, but Yubiwapichan has a video on Youtube of the exercise, though you will want to build up more speed as your coordination and hand control increases. The same exercise should be done palms down, once you're able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawel r Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) http://www.fitarea.eu/images/sprzet/raczka_do_nakrecania.jpg for wrist curls (great finger work) Edited July 31, 2009 by pawel r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrojetred Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Lol one guy says mostly just pulling and another says stop pulling and just light gym workouts. Well I think it'd be fine to keep pulling for now, maybe take 3 weeks off the table or even 2 should be enough if she's not hurting bad... maybe 3 weeks off the table before Worlds and just do light workouts up until a week before and then just cardio or nothing. That's what I would do anyways if it were me. Ok We've got a light table training... actually she's working hard so her wrists are under pressure for at least 8 hrs/day ... finished table time she was quite good.... she can't flex her wrist (relaxed) with other hand.... (it hurts too much) but if she bend the wrist with the fingers closed and forced there is no pain... (i start to think she is a little bit overtrainied) By the way.... stopping at ALL is a big mistake, active recovery with pullups (no pain doing that), a continuos table training, contrast baths every training session should be good... for the first 2 weeks then (if there is an improvement) try to push only to table for the last week... one week or 10 days OFF at all (only cardio) and then competition..... IMO this shuold be the best to approach to competition IN THIS CASE.... only 'cause pushing too much on weights/lifting could be dangerous so i prefer Table time. Let me know if i'm wrong. Whatever works for you, I guess. You can do lite workouts. And if it's just workout pains, then just give her time to recover. But if she is injured, she needs to stop. Period. Table time at this point is mainly for technique IMO. She needs to figure out her toughest opponents strategy, and train on countering. Focus on the quality of the session. She doesn't need to be pulling hard, or at all, but simply going through the movements and technique. Another advanced way of training is to visualize all her techniques in her head over and over. This will improve her ability. And remember, the best armwrestlers usually don't train every day. John Brzenk trains 4 to 3 times a month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicio Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 I agree 100% When I say "push olny to the table" is not matter of intensity but only quality (as you said.. movements.. technique ecc...) She's not injuried... but her work is the real problem (she push and pull metal trolleys about 450-500lb of weight... very often the men who works with her are not able to move them... so she very very imflammed). I think table time and cardio is the best way to approach to the comp..... better we can't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbo4muscle Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Some ppl are just very strong in their fingers... Talking about girls I know one, who also will compete at the worlds, who can do 1 rep on 2 finger pull-ups (middle finger), and at first try! But for us weaklings who are not so gentically blessed what to do... ? Its embarresing to get top rolled in your favorite deep hook:( just cause you last two fingers gives in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicio Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Some ppl are just very strong in their fingers... Talking about girls I know one, who also will compete at the worlds, who can do 1 rep on 2 finger pull-ups (middle finger), and at first try! But for us weaklings who are not so gentically blessed what to do... ?Its embarresing to get top rolled in your favorite deep hook:( just cause you last two fingers gives in! Who is the Girl you know?? Now the worlds are over... you can say... Anyway i must say the level of the worlds 2009 was insane so genetics is not enough to win... here you must have ALL, genetics, hard table training, hard gym training..... ALL the hand has 5 fingers and you must had ALL insanely strong from the fingers to the chest. otherwise you're out... see the final position of many champions/finalist of the 2008... Bicio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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