Tom of Iowa2 Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I have read it and I am amazed that there has NOT been any discussion about it? I AM JUST STUNNED BY THE ARTICLES THEMSELVES...i will ad that it appeared to be done with respect and great care.Incredible research.i am still a little shaken up ...but it is better to know??? For those not IN the pay section I would recommend that you pay a measely 10 bucks and read it...there is a lot of other cool stuff in there.I even liked the story of Roarks encounter with Greg kovacks Nice piece of work-great detail-and despite the discrepencies Paul Anderson is still a strength legend...just not quite as strong as we thought? But still strong and did a lot of charitable things and brought the strength sport a lot of publicity..... Now..cpuld you tell us what REALLY happened to Jimmy Hoffa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Tom, Yeah I'd like to read it, but..... where's the link?!? It would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 You have to donate to Cyberpump to be able to read the articles. Click on the link in my sig to donate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 Hey Cybertightwad 10 measely bucks would help too.I've read that you go around collecting grip machines?and you consider this your home? I've got your link..I'll bring it to the Snowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 There does not appear to be a large cross-over contingent from here to cyberpump's donor area. If you are interested in the Anderson situation, this material is worth reading- not because I wrote it, but because no one else has, and the information is exclusive. So far none of those who disagreed with me has contacted me, except for Strossen who wrote to Iron Game History saying the work was disrepectful. I tend to think the truth should always be held in respect, and Osmo Kiiha, who changed his mind after reading the material and accepts that I have proven my conclusions on the backlift. I still await, eagerly await, challenges to the text and research, but if I were on the other side of these issues my mouth would remain zipped also. Anyway, next year, which is to say next month, we will be examining Apollon, which has much to do with grip, and I will not be repeating the material here. Your money goes not to me but to Wannagrip to support cyberpump- which is why you are able to read the grip board for free. So far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 I found the article 'tatefully'done.It just carefully and gently nudged the facts into place.I don't see it as disrespectful at all. Certain things did not apparently add up- on some of the lifts -that have been reported (and talked about for decades.)The chronology goes into details of the weather and then dates....and details of injuries..meets...actual weights of safes....the problem with an 1800lb.table of the stated dimensions-conflicting accounts in magazines-some simple mistakes-some even innocent blunders...this that and the other thing.Sorry-are you confused?good...can't give it away but e-mail me and I'll SELL you a copy.. I am more of a trivia buff..not a true historian...i do have a lot of factoids about athletes,bodybuilders and celbreties and lifters and strongmen and giants and freaks but this article goes beyond just factoids and trivia.It is an interesting look at something all of us have probably mentioned at a party or a in gym- (as we discuss strength or when we are one upping the loval yokels about what strong really is )it's about Paul Anderson ....and also in the pay site :did you know?Greg kovacs is so large he requires a battery powered......... I didn't want to get too serious or mushy or something makes you go hhhhmmmmm???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaury Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Yeah Tom, i totally agree: this article is amazing ! It is TRUE historian work (not just gossip columnist work the type that can be found on other sites...a word to the wise is enough) : DETECTIVE work on HISTORICAL documents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Frankly, I was shocked at Strossen's emotional based (and with no facts for rebuttal point by point) response in Iron Game History. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 If someone can point out errors in the Anderson material, I will acknowledge them and make corrections - for this statement there is a proven track record. Having a bias is fine. Until evidence shows otherwise. When Gaudreau questioned Apollon's 341 pound lift in front of the Rasso Trio, the hair on the back of my neck (only place on my head still populated by hair) stood up! So I studied every account of the incident I could find, in addition to the strength levels of everyone involved, and concluded that the lift was within Apollon's ability. But had I been convinced that the story lacked merit, what would have been the point in clinging to it like a desperate fan? That lift took place 110 years ago today, Dec 18, 1892. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom of Iowa2 Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 actually the article was 'tastefully'done. If it was 'tatefully'done it would have been done by Mr. Tate,Darrens boss on 'Bewitched'. Also it should have read: 'local yokels'-NOT 'loval yokels'.Loval yokels would be working at a factory in Finland........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Browne Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 I give kudos to Roark for the enlightening information! Good job Joe. As I read it, I kept thinking why did Anderson insist that the weight he lifted was ( the hip and backlift) what it was? Was he all that consumed with besting Cyrs' lift? After all Anderson was touted as "The strongest man in the world'" in that era. Roarks' description of the implements used for the lifts and their dimensions clearly shows the implements could not have weighed what was given as their weight. I dislike using the word expose', but I feel like I was "exposed" to the real truth by Mr. Roark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 (edited) Having read some of Mr Strossen's work on Anderson before (and this isn't meant as a Rip) there does seem to be a large reliance on emotion over what is "researched fact". But I have spoken to David Gentle (Iron Game Historian) and he felt the same way.... Edited December 18, 2002 by The Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisJames Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Joe , excellent article on Anderson, i have two questions for you. I read once that Doug Hepburn was asked not to try the challenge squat which he was preparing to do.Do you think he could of done it ? Who do you rate the all round strongest Anderson or Louis Cyr ? Thank you Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Chris, It is my opinion that Hepburn could not have- his best known squat during his lifetime was less than 800 lbs, but his website (while he was living) asserted 800 lbs. By most accounts, the Silver Dollar apparatus exceeded 800 lbs, and some place it one third higher than that. Even with the weight hanging below the bar, and thus making the lift easier, I suspect Hepburn could not have squatted with it. However, if the story of Anderson's manager calling Doug first to invite him to try, then the same day calling him to cancel that request, is true (beats me if it is, the two sides had opposite takes on it, so somebody was lying or was not remembering correctly) then Anderson's side must have had apprehension about Hepburn's chance of success, which makes me think the squat must have been nearer the 800 lb mark than the 1100 lb mark- because no one would worry about Hepburn being able to squat 1100. Cyr vs Anderson? Depends on the lifts chosen. Anderson would win on squats, but would have lost on anything requiring tremendous grip strength. So the outcome of the match would depend on the incoming lifts. Indeed Hepburn's website had some unsettling reports on Paul's weakness in the curl, for example-whether this info is true I do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Joe, I find it interesting that Chris apparently felt that Cyr was the only old timer that could have been a challenge to more recent strongmen like Anderson. Who do you think would have had the best chance of challenging (maybe beating?) more modern lifters: Cyr, Apollon, or Swoboda? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Mark, Perhaps the question is better asked in reverse? Which of the modern guys could defeat Cyr, or Apollon, or Swoboda, meaning of course, in regard to the lifts those men specialized in. I simply do not know, and would rather not give an off the cuff answer. In the area where cross-over has been demonstrated- the lifting of the Apollon wheels, for example, some of the fellows at the 2002 Arnold Strongman show did not fare well. But could Cyr have walked with the 800 pound farmer's box? To draw a parallel, if strongman competition were in the same bodyweight categories as olympic lifting, I suspect not a single strongman could out snatch or out C&J the top level lifters the same weight category. But, those weightlifters may not fare well lifting the Atlas stones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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