Rule Breaking - Specifically #5

[Roark]

Whoa, I just got back from lunch, and did not see the

post under discussion, but I see Woody is wondering why

I didn't mention partial reps for Heath instead of full reps.

Two reasons:

Some people on here DID point it out; Heath did not

deny the reps were partial, and the video was available

for everyone to see here.

And, though I have not reread all those posts since returning

from lunch, I cannot recall that Heath made a claim that

the feat was a country or regional record- it was an

impromptu demonstration.

I became ensnared in the Sorin #4 debate. Richard said

Brookfield witnessed it. Brookfield said he could not

recall witnessing it. So, where does that leave us? Somebody was mistaken, and I have no way of knowing

which man.

Under the new rules, Mark Henry, if he were to post here

and then claim that he cleaned and push pressed the Inch

for three separate reps, would have to post a photo. Of

course, three photos would be better for that claim.

But the point is, the rules are in place, for everyone, at

every level, in every country.

If I see someone deadlift the MB Jan 4 at the Snowman

Challenge I will know it happened, but it is up to me to

convey proof that it happened to other interested parties,

which I will try to do, but it seems to be asking quite a lot of me to deadlift it with one hand while snapping a photo of myself with the other hand

[David Horne]

Hello,

I've just got back from Wales. Is this post something to do with me?

David

[OldGuy]

New to the board, not to grip training. He has been at it sometime. He is a COC, bends nails wrenches, pinchgrips 2 x 45 and hublifts a 45 plus extra weight. He has many doubters. I lean towards pretty much believing him with just a few reservations due to my skeptical nature.

[amaury]

Yeah i think mentioning Heath is unfair (sure it was not done on purpose though): Heath is modesty incarnate. He almost never claims anything and we learn later, by someone else, what he did with a video or photo to go with...

Oldguy, in some of your posts you claim being able to close a #3 or that you were able to lift 190lbs on an Inch loadable DB. Now i just hope you'll stop posting such things since you seem to 100% back the rule #5 (or at least send a photo, it's not that hard or expensive to buy a Webcam).

[Bill Piche]

It's a different thing entirely to ask a grip legend to

provide proof of a lift, i think Dave has served his apprenticeship!

Yeah, sure. We should just take things with blind faith. Just like with Thomas Inch.

[Guest woody36]

Inchdisciple, i said Newbie! not grip newbie.

I believe Tommy's claims, and i respect his WORD!

[OldGuy]

amaury, this is rule 5

5. Posts that are obviously near or exceeding world records or all time bests require a picture with the post. Cameras are cheap. If there is no picture with the post, the post will be deleted. In addition, whatever record, world or otherwise, is being touted, it should be in accord with the rules for that lift, not some version of the lift for which indeed no records have ever been kept.

I have posted what I have done as personal bests or can do currrently. I am not worldclass in anything I do, or anywhere near record performance. I mentioned the 190 lbs after being asked what I had done. I have not broken rule 5. If my personal bests happened to be equal to or better than world records, that would be a different matter.

[Guest woody36]

Wanna,Tom Black posted a pic of a wrench he'd bent and you

congratulated him, he could have bent it in a vise?

but you took him at his word, why?

Edited December 15, 2002 by woody36

[Roark]

Woody, I have a serious question for you, no sarcasm

intended.

Why do you believe Tommy's word? I am not saying you

should not believe him, I am just wanting to know why?

I do not know him so have no feel one way or the other

about his word. I sensed something in your post, that

perhaps was not there, but there are men I know who, if

they told me they performed certain feats, I would believe

them-close friends with long histories. I would not post

those feats without proof, but I would personally believe them. Is that what you mean in regard to Tommy?

Thanks.

[amaury]

Woody,

many of the board members know each other and therefore trust each other (ex: the AOBS table) . We can't do anything about it and above all it's completely understandable.

Now, to be skeptical the way they are (sometimes) with other members of the board is unpleasant: there was no fakes among them (as they discovered when they met) and there's no reason why there should be more fakes among those they don't know.

Oldguy: closing a #3 is Worldclass and that's why Ironmind publishes the list of the certified COC's. Lifting 190 on an Inch Loadable DB is also (even more) "Worldclass". I think you actually did it (or it would just be TOO pathetic) but you have to abide by the rules.

I don't see the difference between being a COC and claiming 10reps on the #3 and not being a COC and claiming #3 closes.

[Bill Piche]

Wanna,Tom Black posted a pic of a wrench he'd bent and you

congratulated him, he could have bent it in a vise?

but you took him at his word, why?

Like I said...GOING FORWARD these rules are now implemented. There has been plenty of back slapping previously by everyone. I am not sure how to spell it out any clearer for you. From now on, since the rules are now in place, EVERYONE has to follow them.

What about this don't you understand? GOING FOWARD from THIS POINT FORWARD! What was in the past is history.

[OldGuy]

That is correct the rules are not retroactive. Closing a #4 is worldclass. The #3 has become an everyday event kind of like a sub 4 minute mile. Maybe a list of what the Gripboard considers to be worldclass, and in need of substantial backup evidence other than what I or somebody said. is needed.

[amaury]

Maybe a list of what the Gripboard considers to be worldclass, and in need of substantial backup evidence other than what I or somebody said. is needed.

Oldguy: i think we've came to an agreement

Though remember "world class" and "world record" are different things...

[Roark]

OldGuy,

While I think I understand what you mean by the rules not being retroactive, by allowing all highest level claims

to be grand-fathered in so long as they were posted before the new rules were posted, cures nothing, and indeed sets unreachable goals IF, I say IF, any of those

grand-fathered claims were bogus.

Hopefully we will not arrive at a loggerhead where people

are hesitant to post their training achievements for fear of

being grilled about every detail-this should not be a problem if training feats don't match world class feats.

Unfortunately, we now know that rules should have been in place from the start. It's hard to patch a moving tire.

[mobsterone]

Tom Black assembled such a list some time ago. Lifts could be added and 'pinned'. Perhaps each lift listed could include a link to the rules or examples of good form, if they are available.

[terminator]

Webster's definition of legend:

1 a : a story coming down from the past; especially : one popularly regarded as historical although not verifiable b : a body of such stories <a place in the legend of the frontier> c : a popular myth of recent origin

Pretty well sums it up.

Anyone who bitches about providing proof is not what they claim to be.

[David Horne]

I've been told that the original post was about me by another board member.

Well all I can say is that Chris is a very pleasant and genuine person and he and his family made me and my boys very welcome. We had a great time chatting about strength and playing with his grip toys. All it was, was an impromptu training session. By the way we do have a photo.

David

[Guest Harlan Jacobs]

This is getting out of hand already. Guys are already taking this the wrong way. I don't think Wanna is talking about our peronal best or what we done in our last workout. We are here to talk about Training. And yes , there will be weights lifted that others find hard to belive. But you could go to your local gym and here that. The piont I think that Wana is trying to make is for anyone to claim a WORLD RECORD, proof must be shown. Let's not make a bigger deal out of this than we allready have.

[Guest woody36]

Harlan,

Chris James didn't make any WR claims, he just said

what Dave had lifted at his house,and the post was

pulled.

Ask Wanna to put the post back up, let everyone see

what the fuss was about.

[David Horne]

What can I say.

David

[Tom Black]

Everyone seems to have missed the intent of the photo idea. I planted the seed of the rules of conduct in Wannagrip's mind. What I really wanted to stop was not the posts but the bickering that goes on afterwards. We now have even more fighting!

The rules of conduct and the photo were not to provide evidence of world record feats, but to stop the fighting. Everybody's putting too much emphasis on the "world record" and claiming a world record, that is not the point at all, its just my observation that we tend to argue about such things. If we argued about whether the sky is blue we would be deleting those posts too. Everyone could post anything they please regarding way out lifts and feats and as long as others don’t pound on them I don’t mind. I wrote in e-mail to Wannagrip that the picture idea was also protection for the poster, especially ones that didn't realize that they would be challenged so harshly. I think that’s what separates some posts from others. When someone with a long history of pictures and possibly videos makes a claim without a picture for a recent accomplishment they are met with congratulations , I don’t want that type of post to disappear, it is exactly the opposite of my intent because it shows the board at its best, congratulating and sharing the accomplishment.

[Bill Piche]

Harlan,

Chris James didn't make any WR claims, he just said

what Dave had lifted at his house,and the post was

pulled.

Ask Wanna to put the post back up, let everyone see

what the fuss was about.

Once it's gone it's gone.

Read rule number 5.

And, let's not go there again with "no one actually said it was a world record" DUUUUUH!

Topic closed.

Going forward, rule #5 applies to EVERYONE.