One Vs 16

[Roark]

Please, those of you who know who is being described by the following paragraph, please hold that knowledge a while until some feedback comes in regarding whether the following feat is possible.

The man's identity, unrevealed for now, will thus not

taint viewpoints. I have hidden the year as well.

What is your view on this?

"In England, in 19__, he climbed a strong ladder with a thick rope around his waist, sixteen men pulling on the heavy rope with all their might failed to stop his upward progress."

(I assume the ladder was somehow attached to a wall or

side of a building.)

Yes or no to this feat? And who do you think it was?

[Bill Piche]

I say bull.

It's probably Inch. BWAH!

[Tom Black]

Not possible. I make my judgment not just on the feat itself but the strength of the ladder. I bought a new Aluminum ladder fairly recently and even the new ones are not rated high enough to withstand the strength of 16 men. Also, 16 x 150-pounds equals 2400 pounds. Even the weight of the men alone (average men being I would think at least 150-pounds) would be more than an Anderson squat.

[Roark]

In addition, consider the grip factor: your hand grasping

the ladder rung, and 16 men pulling against your hand(s).

[Tom Black]

Yes, but the support of the legs would take most of the stress. But of course fake ladder walking/men pulling doesn't stress the hands much at all.

[Guest woody36]

The way i imagined it, these guys are stood some distance

from the ladder when he starts making his ascent,not

directly underneath him,sixteen men in tug o war fashion.

The higher up he goes the less leverage the men have.

but i could be wrong!

[OldGuy]

Maybe it is a stunt kind of like resisting a bunch of men or even horses pulling on either side of you, or climbing a ladder lifting an elephant as you go. There are definite differences between feats of strength and stunts.

[Roark]

Yes, good points. But are we then in agreement that such a feat- if 16 men were actually trying to resist one man

climbing a ladder, would prevent the man from climbing?

1. If the men were near the ladder ('under' the climber)

only one or two men would actually be in a position to exert resistance-the other 14 would be lateral and therefore pull-less.

2. If all the men were farther from the base of the ladder-

keep in mind the rope was around the waist- then the

force would be more like a tug of war, and of course, no one could keep his feet on the ladder rungs with 16 men

trying to pull at his waist.

3. If two men were hanging on a rope tied to the waist

of the climber, perhaps the man could climb (such has been done using a horse instead of men)

More feedback before we reveal who the strongman was?

Oh- the paragraph I began this thread with is the total content description of the feat- no more details are given.

[Sybersnott]

Is the source from the book, "Sons Of Sampson"? :huh

[Roark]

Snott,

The source is, and this will give it away to some of you,

the book 'Worthwhile Journey' which is the autobiography

of someone who touted another someone as being the

'strongest man of all time', the latter on the ladder.

[amaury]

Maybe they used a pulley ? Maybe the ground was damp ?

Anyway, it seems more than a bit farfetched...

[Guest CalvinP]

It's near impossible for 16 men to stand directly under the ladder and tug 1 rope at once. So they must stand back far enough to make room for all 16, the climber then must use his elbows' crooks to hook on the ladder rungs. In this fashion a man can withstand quite a pull, so the upward movement can be achieve, because the resisting force was mostly lateral relative to the directtion of man who was climbing. May be 16 men was trying to get too close, therefore only few at a time can really apply some pressure. If they'd all pull with a chant like: hee ho hee ho we go...the man will be pulled like a sling shot hahaha

Edited December 16, 2002 by CalvinP

[paul valpreda]

Ok Joe, enough suspense! Who is the "man" who claimed to be able to perform this stunt? You really have my curiosity going! Is this another one of Jowett's "feats of strength?"

[terminator]

I believe this claim was made for Sigmund Breitbart if I'm not mistaken. I say he was storng, but this feat was exaggerated.

[Roark]

The claim was made for Hermann Goerner by Tromp Van Diggelin, who attributed the feat to 1927, when Herman

would have turned age 36.

TVD thought HG was the strongest man who had ever lived.

[paul valpreda]

Joe,

Do you feel that Goerner's feats were legitimate (except possibly this one)? Also, who do you think would have won an armwrestling match between Goerner and Uni?

[Roark]

Paul,

I have no idea who would have won an armwrestling

match between Apollon and Goerner- I suspect Goerner

had more experience at it, though my bias would be toward Apollon's strength. Just an opinion.

Do I think Goerner's lifts were legitimate? This ladder climbing story is folly. Name whatever strongman you wish, including Apollon, and no one could resist the pull

of 16 other men. It is simple physics, and it is insulting for

Van Diggelin to even foist this tale upon readers.

Unfortunately, it was Van Diggelin who spread much information about Goerner. The ladder feat was followed by another interesting tale.

Keep in mind when strongmen wrote with chalk on walls

with weights hanging off their hands or arms, sometimes those weights were closer to the elbow than the wrist, which of course allowed for much more weight to dangle,

but here is VD's story of Goerner's writing (the emphasis

in caps is mine):

"Here, at my home in Kalk Bay, he has several times written his name on the wall with chalk with a weight of

110-1/4 lb. hung on his THUMB"

We of course are to assume the weight was on the thumb of the hand doing the writing.

In 2003 we will be going into depth about some of the greats of iron (in ironhistory.com). We will treat Goerner's

feats to the same exam with which we put upon Inch.

[Rick Browne]

Roark,

In relation to this topic (ladder climbing) I have read some

of the writings by David Gentle and he wrote (not in detail)

that there was a strongman named Salvins from ancient Rome

that could climb a ladder with 200lbs. tied to each wrist and

200lbs tied to his feet!

No ladder height was given nor was it stated if it was aluminum

I presume that Gentle is a proven historian and one can give

credence to his writings. What is your take on this or was Gentle

stumbling with this like Ray Charles walking through a pumkin patch???

[Roark]

I am not aware of that story, but here is my analysis:

The man is climbing a ladder while carrying 800 extra pounds.

The 200 lbs on each arm must be 'half-pressed' up to the

next ladder rung? And the 200 on each leg or 200 total

(100 per leg?).

Anyway, in what form would the weights be so that they

would not become entangled in the rungs?

I have very little interest in these very very old tales of

strength which appear to me to have more vapor than

veracity.

I simply don't know, but I certainly do doubt.

[Sybersnott]

Roark,

The book that has me wincing is "Goerner The Mighty". After I was done reading it, I was firmly convinced that Goerner was, in fact, SUPERMAN! But as we all know, "Superman" does NOT exist! (And no, Lee Priest isn't "Superman" either. That's just a tattoo on his arm).

Edited December 16, 2002 by Sybersnott

[Guest Mark]

Sybersnott,

Just out of curiosity and as an aspiring historian, what aspects of Goerner the Mighty do you find most unbelievable? Any particular reason? Also, what - if anything - claimed for Goerner in that book do you believe? Why? Thanks for your input.

Mark

[The Mac]

David Gentle is a very nice guy and is absolutely devoted to all forms of the Iron Game, but (and if you read this David, I'm very sorry) he's not always terribly accurate in his historical writings.

By the way, in a book by David Blaine he makes a claim that if you stand facing a wall, and get 10 strong men to try to push you into it, you can resist that pressure with your arms as long as you can take the force of the guy directly behind you. All to do with inertia, apparently. And a very nice "Strongman" trick, even if a magician can do it....

By the way (point 2), I think if the rope was attached to a comfortable harness and the men were not too large/directly beneath him, that it would be possible for a man of Goerner's undoubted supporting strength to climb a ladder. A strong ladder, of course, with very close rungs.....