raikkonen Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 engins list is like you said josh, its one mans opinions. yes, a very talent puller and someone who knows tones about the rankings and sport, but it doesnt mean hes got it right! ok so i guess after i look at it pushkar i would put him in top 10. i guess i said not top 10 cause i def dont think hes 3rd! 1. Devon Larratt 2. John Brzenk 3. Jerry Cadorette / ron bath 4. Travis Bagent 5. Denis Cyplenkov there are people who id like to put there obviously but i tihnk thats a solid top 5 for me anyways. i still think john for me is #1 but devon did beat him convincingly. arsen lilev i reckon could easily get into the top 10 and i also didnt put ferit in there too! nor dave randall but i dont see thses pull as much as my top 5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueviper42 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I don't think Cadorrete or Bagent can beat Cyplenkov right hand. I think Bagent will left hand, but not right hand. I would say top 3 Devon, John, and Cyplenkov. Until Ron Bath pulls Cyplenkov I'd put Bath, Cadorrete, and Bagent lower on the list. Pushkar and Usmanov also make the top 10 I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volko Krull Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 On youtube there's a current discussion about whether Cyplenkov could close the #4. What do you think ? I'd say no way, but I don't know whether he trained on the grippers before or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueviper42 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Haha, seriously? There is NO WAY he can close a #4 (at least right now). Why do people assume he has such great hand strength? The #4 takes a lot of specialized crush training to be able to close. No one that does not train on grippers can close a #4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raikkonen Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 well he obviously has the capacity (hand size) so with practice maybe some day he could, unelss he has been using them for years) maybe denis can beat traiv ron and jerry right handed but until i see it im not gonna put him above them, otherwise thered be alto of other ppl to put in that list who aint puleld everyone in top 10 etc. i still think travis and jerry would take him right handed. and traivs left yes. isnt denis gonna be pulling john sometime ina few months again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexor Brachialis Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 engins list is like you said josh, its one mans opinions. yes, a very talent puller and someone who knows tones about the rankings and sport, but it doesnt mean hes got it right! ok so i guess after i look at it pushkar i would put him in top 10. i guess i said not top 10 cause i def dont think hes 3rd!1. Devon Larratt 2. John Brzenk 3. Jerry Cadorette / ron bath 4. Travis Bagent 5. Denis Cyplenkov there are people who id like to put there obviously but i tihnk thats a solid top 5 for me anyways. i still think john for me is #1 but devon did beat him convincingly. arsen lilev i reckon could easily get into the top 10 and i also didnt put ferit in there too! nor dave randall but i dont see thses pull as much as my top 5! Jerry Cadorette has a 4 to 1 record against Ron Bath so he should be ranked above him. Cyplenkov would easily beat Ron Bath, cause Bath is no technical but a strengh puller and ciplenkov is undoublty stronger. So a VERY interesting match would be Cadorette vs Ciplenkov !! Also Cadorette vs Brzenk or Larrat would be awsome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Kellersmann Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 engins list is like you said josh, its one mans opinions. yes, a very talent puller and someone who knows tones about the rankings and sport, but it doesnt mean hes got it right! ok so i guess after i look at it pushkar i would put him in top 10. i guess i said not top 10 cause i def dont think hes 3rd!1. Devon Larratt 2. John Brzenk 3. Jerry Cadorette / ron bath 4. Travis Bagent 5. Denis Cyplenkov there are people who id like to put there obviously but i tihnk thats a solid top 5 for me anyways. i still think john for me is #1 but devon did beat him convincingly. arsen lilev i reckon could easily get into the top 10 and i also didnt put ferit in there too! nor dave randall but i dont see thses pull as much as my top 5! Jerry Cadorette has a 4 to 1 record against Ron Bath so he should be ranked above him. Cyplenkov would easily beat Ron Bath, cause Bath is no technical but a strengh puller and ciplenkov is undoublty stronger. So a VERY interesting match would be Cadorette vs Ciplenkov !! Also Cadorette vs Brzenk or Larrat would be awsome Why is Ron no technical but a strength puller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightertrainer Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 My point excatly, Ron Bath is no technical? come'on guy. He is a legend in AW you told me he's no technical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsith19 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ron Bath is not all strength I watched him toproll Richard Lupkes into the pad at the 2007 ROTN. I could see him doing that to Denis as well, maybe not, but it wouldn't surprise me. As far as Travis goes, as of last November he would have beaten Denis, did you see how easily John toprolled him and Tim Bresnan came close. Travis's toproll is in a whole different league than Tim Bresnan's imho, Travis has wins over John Brzenk right handed, he would definitely beat Denis as of last November. Not sure about Jerry Cadorette, can he toproll Denis? But he should be ranked above Ron as mentioned above he has the winning record against Ron, and beat someone ranked above Ron. Maybe at the 2007 Mphegan Sun, ROn was better than Jerry, and he was, but Jerry wasn't really even training ast that time, he is definitely stronger and in much better shape now than he was then, Travis should be above Ron he put up a better match against Devon right handed than Ron did (and that was a stronger Devon) + Travis beat Ron last time they pulled (2007 ROTN). When was the last time Ron beat Travis, if ever? On a recent ArmTV interview, Ron said he would like to have a supermatch with Travis if Travis gets down to 240. What is your basis for placing Ron above Travis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raikkonen Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) guys my rankings arnt offical, thats just what i thought of right now. please psot yours and comment on your own =) im kinda of basing it of last year only not overall ever,. otherwise there would be different names in! my mistake ron bath same as jerry no i think just behind travis bagent is right if im honest, it could be that jerry and travis might both beat john right now! and thus get ranked higher but brzenk won zloty and open class so he deserve it. Edited January 26, 2009 by raikkonen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsith19 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) I was just wondering why you chose that order. If I had to make a top 10, this would be it: 1. Devon Larratt 2. John Brzenk 3. Jerry Cadorette 4. Travis Bagent 5. Andrey Pushkar 6. Ron Bath 7. David Randall 8. Denis Cyplenkov 9. Taras Ivakin 10. Tim Bresnan It's hard to pick. Devon, #1, that's obvious as of now. Like you said, maybe Travis, and maybe Jerry, would beat John, but until they do, they cannot be ranked above him. To be the best, you gotta beat the best. It was hard to rank Andrey Pushkar. Has he ever gone against Ron Bath? If so, what were the results? Andrey Pushkar has wins (or at least 1 win) over John Brzenk, and he won WAF worlds. There must be a reason for Engin placing him at 3rd. Travis Bagent beat him in their supermatch however I think in like 2005 or 2006? Unless Pushkar has beaten him since then I don't see why he is ranked above him. Does anybody know what the results are from the last time Andrey and Travis pulled? 6, Ron, he lost to Travis at the 2007 ROTN and nothing or no one he beat since then makes me think the results would be any different today. The next one was tough but Dave has pulled within the last year... I think a full year without competing is should be the limit before you're off the rankings. Last year in I think April, he beat Tim Bresnan numerous times at the AAA nationals, so imho he should be ranked above Tim. He also beat Ron in 2007 but Dave competes so little it is hard to rank him. Denis, yeah, maybe he would beat Dave Randall, maybe he'd beat Ron Bath, maybe he would beat Andrey Pushkar, but before he can be ranked above them, imho, he should have to beat them. If he were to beat Pushkar he'd move up to spot 5. Again you gotta beat the best to be the best, and the best armwrestler he has beaten so far right handed is Tim Bresnan, or Taras, depending on if my results are accurate or not. Taras I rank 9th because at Zloty he beat everybody in his class except Brzenk, and in the overall he got 3rd behind Denis and Brzenk. behind Denis, so he is below him, but Taras beat Tim Bresnan so I rank him above Tim. So Taras hasn't done as well the last year or 2. Shouldn't we take the most recent events into account? Taras could have improved. If we go by older results, why is Ion Onsescu ranked 9th when Arsen Liliev beat him earlier in 2008? And then 10th I put Bresnan, Taras beat him and so did Denis but he has beaten Brzenk before, won nationals, got 2nd in the super heavyweights at Zloty, beat Michael Todd, ect. The main thing with my list is it isn't necessarily correct, like best to 10th best, but to be ranked above someone you have to beat them in my opinion, or somebody else higher up the list. Dave Randall will be off once he hasn't competed for 1 year. Ferit is off for the same reason he is off Engin's list, he is unable to compete while he is moving and getting new passports and stuff, Engin said why I can't remember exactly but Engin said that Ferit won't be competing for about 2 years. Edited January 26, 2009 by Josh H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) I was just wondering why you chose that order. If I had to make a top 10, this would be it:1. Devon Larratt 2. John Brzenk 3. Jerry Cadorette 4. Travis Bagent 5. Andrey Pushkar 6. Ron Bath 7. David Randall 8. Denis Cyplenkov 9. Taras Ivakin 10. Tim Bresnan While Jerry is an amazing puller, the only elite guy he beats is Travis. This is in part because he does not travel or compete very much. By "elite" puller I mean, Devon, John, Dave, Travis, Andre and Ron. I would put Tim Bresnan (who Jerry beats) in the next category down as "borderline elite" - among the best in the world, but not yet in that coveted inner circle. The same goes for Denis, Taras, Michael and maybe a dozen or two others. John and Ron both beat Jerry at the 2007 Mohegan Worlds. Just because Jerry has Travis' number does not in my view mean he should be ranked above all the guys that Travis beats. While Jerry has some wins over Ron, most of those go back to the 1990's if I am not mistaken. I would also not put Ron above Dave as I believe Dave has won the vast majority of matches between those two and some of them rather convincingly. Just to give you an idea on how freakin' strong Dave Randall is (why he's #2 after Devon in my rankings and possibly could beat Devon now), I uploaded some new videos today: Dave Randall vs Jim Bryan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpmtFPEYVo0...re=channel_page Dave Randall vs Peter Milano http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBM5SGML814...re=channel_page Dave Randall vs Tim Bresnan 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1vAsjgQIeY...re=channel_page Dave Randall vs Tim Bresnan 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOCwy7aEFSs...re=channel_page Dave Randall vs Tim Bresnan 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmPxBpaGUjw...re=channel_page Dave Randall vs Tim Bresnan 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yExQvMWLFmU...re=channel_page Edited January 27, 2009 by G-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsith19 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 G-Man if you're going to use Dave's past matches with Ron why not use Jerry's past matches with Ron? Dave is good but John has beaten Dave every single time they ever pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raikkonen Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 josh you forgot about alexey semerenko, he beat taras at zloty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) G-Man if you're going to use Dave's past matches with Ron why not use Jerry's past matches with Ron? Dave is good but John has beaten Dave every single time they ever pulled. If I am not mistaken, Jerry's matches with Ron are mostly in the 1990's. Dave has beaten Ron far more recently. Ron wrote on the Northeast board comparing Jerry to Dave: I believe Ron said if either puller were similar to the last time he pulled them, Dave would "crush" Jerry. I know that John beat Dave in 1997 in the overall at the Harley Pull. At the 1996 Nationals (Albany New York), I watched Jerry beat Dave pretty easily in the 242-pound class. Dave has been around 300-pounds the past decade or so. I am not aware if John has even pulled Dave since 1997. IMO, John would have to be at or near his best to beat Dave at or near his best. Edited January 27, 2009 by G-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsith19 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 That's exactly right, "if" Jerry is the same as he was last time they pulled, which was at Mohegan and Jerry wasn't even training. There's no way he is the same Jerry now. So you put Dave Randall above John even though he has never beaten him? What qualifies him to be ranked above John? Pure speculation? For my list, and for Engin's, and inthehook and other rankings, you have to beat somebody to be ranked above them, that's the way it should be. It's the only way that's fair. raikkonen, I didn't forget but I also remember Taras placing 3rd in the overalls, above Alexey Semrenko, and if my memory serves me correctly, Taras beat Alexey after that and Tim Bresnan also beat Alexey. Normunds Tomsons and some others also beat Alexey at WAF worlds. I would not put Alexey on the top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 That's exactly right, "if" Jerry is the same as he was last time they pulled, which was at Mohegan and Jerry wasn't even training. There's no way he is the same Jerry now. So you put Dave Randall above John even though he has never beaten him? What qualifies him to be ranked above John? Pure speculation? Who said Jerry wasn't training for Mohegan? There was a huge thread on the NE board about how Jerry was going to finally get his chance at John at Mohegan. In fact, I had personally predicted that Jerry would win it that year (I believe he got 4th behind Marcio, John and Ron). Dave beat Tim convincingly four times at the AAA Nationals. Tim has a winning record against John and has wins against a ton of other top seed competitors. My top eight in the world right now: 1. Devon Larratt 2. Dave Randall 3. John Brzenk 4. Travis Bagent 5. Ron Bath 6. Jerry Cadorette 7. Andre Pushkar 8. Denis Cyplenkov Jerry has never pulled Andre and from the way dominated the recent worlds, who knows what would happen? I still put him above Andre and Denis. Engin puts Jerry ahead of a number of guys he never pulled, so yes, speculation is involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsith19 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 On ARMTV when Gary ROberts went to Jerry's house in November Jerry said he wasn't really training for Mohegan Sun, he just went cause it was gonna be on TV and I think it was close to him wasn't it? He is training much harder now he is training seriously. Believe what you want but to my Jerry's recent performance shows that he is not lying. If Tim has a winning record against John why don't you rank Tim above John? And Engin put Jerry above all those guys because Jerry beat Travis and Travis is ranked above all of those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexor Brachialis Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 engins list is like you said josh, its one mans opinions. yes, a very talent puller and someone who knows tones about the rankings and sport, but it doesnt mean hes got it right! ok so i guess after i look at it pushkar i would put him in top 10. i guess i said not top 10 cause i def dont think hes 3rd!1. Devon Larratt 2. John Brzenk 3. Jerry Cadorette / ron bath 4. Travis Bagent 5. Denis Cyplenkov there are people who id like to put there obviously but i tihnk thats a solid top 5 for me anyways. i still think john for me is #1 but devon did beat him convincingly. arsen lilev i reckon could easily get into the top 10 and i also didnt put ferit in there too! nor dave randall but i dont see thses pull as much as my top 5! Jerry Cadorette has a 4 to 1 record against Ron Bath so he should be ranked above him. Cyplenkov would easily beat Ron Bath, cause Bath is no technical but a strengh puller and ciplenkov is undoublty stronger. So a VERY interesting match would be Cadorette vs Ciplenkov !! Also Cadorette vs Brzenk or Larrat would be awsome Why is Ron no technical but a strength puller? Because i watched many interviews with him on ArmTv and thats what he always says himself. He says that he never gave a damn about much technic, he also didnt' learned it at all accord to himself the technic thing came to him very late and he never was a very technical puller like travis. And if you watch the way Ron pulls you see that he likes the most to get a fast hit straight sideways and rather turn into a hook. Also the last interview that I wachted he said that he was impressed after the Devon match, how much Devon analysed him and trained specifique just for him and he dind't anything of that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsith19 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I watched that interview, too; Ron Bath also said he's not a legend. He is very humble. He is certainly one of the 5 most legendary armwrestlers of all time. As for the Devon thing, he said he didn't analyze Devon and he didn't train super hard cause he though Devon was a good pulled but he'd win for sure. He said if he were to have more supermatches in the future he would analyze his opponent more, as he did with Jerry before Mohegan Sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 http://www.ciplenkov.ru/fotos/24_06_08_kr/IMG_1151.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Kellersmann Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Preparing for John Brzenk: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verdigriz Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Wow! Good luck John, but I think the beast may have you this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Kellersmann Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Unstoppable for Kote doesn't mean unstoppable for John It will be a great matchup though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mithras Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 This rematch will be interesting. As regards the video the Russians aren't shy about using these training videos as propagana and it might not be what it seems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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