Squats And Dead Lifts, To Wear A Belt Or Not That Is The Question

[John4cars]

I have been searching all over Google to find as much info as I can regarding the subject of using or not using a belt. I keep finding so much conflicting information on the subject of using belts. It seem that the majority say your a fool of you don't use one. And yet it seems like the majority also thinks deep squats are bad for you, and I feel that they are much better for you. At least in my case, not squatting to or past parallel causes me a lot of knee pain. I hear the argument that squatting with a belt can cause you to become weaker in your lower back. Or cause you to become reliant on the belt. I have just started a variation of the 5x5 program about 2 weeks ago and I LOVE doing squats, as well as dead lifts. I am still very weak at both of these but would like to begin training the proper way. That is, if I should use a belt I would like to start doing so, if not, I will continue to do them as I have been without a belt. Whats the opinion of the many on this board who squat and dead lift as part of your normal training?

Thanks.

[cberg]

The only time I have ever used a belt was for max lifts. Other than that, I don't think theres a need for a belt. Just my 2 cents

[MalachiMcMullen]

Do not use a belt regularly. If your goal is overall body strength, then you'll want to use a belt sparingly. Wearing a belt all the time actually weakens your core and stabilizer muscles significantly. Lifting without a belt and with proper form will not hurt you, even when going heavy. If you want, you can belt up for your max attempts or even some heavy doubles and triples if you like. Wearing an actual power belt properly shouldn't be the most comfortable thing in the world either so you wouldn't want to I wouldn't think. You want them pretty tight so that during a maximum effort squat or pull, you get extra stability from pushing your abs against the belt. Keeping it that tight isn't all too comfortable after awhile Don't go out and get yourself on of those glued together leather BBer belts because they wont do anything for you in squats/DLs. You want a quality belt like an Inzer or something thereabout

[oscar4883]

I use my belt during all speed squats and when the weight starts to get heavy on max effort days. I do not however have it on very tight. Probably on the loose side of snug if that makes any sense. It is more of a firm surface to push my gut against in order to create a tight set-up and lock everything in. Even for the years that I was not competing in powerlifting I still wore it but usually only for heavy deads. I totally agree that it should be a good power belt. If you do decide to get a good belt remember that double prongs are a pain to use and lever belts suck! LOL. Use one for your heavy warm-ups and max efforts for squats and deads and you'll be fine. Also keep in mind that if you are new to squats and deads it would be wise to train your abs heavy. This is something I wish I would have understood the importance of when I first started to train.

[RPGoodfellow]

I have a big-ass Cardillo 4" double ply and it's great. My wife (then girl friend) got it for me as a Christmas gift back in college. I was so pumped I cranked it on...and couldn't get the damn thing off! HAHA! It was so stiff, I was literally stuck in it! My brother-in-law and I pulled on that thing for 10 minutes before we could get it off me. No bullshit. Ah, memories.

Here's the deal: I only use it when I'm going for a max effort or really heavy reps. That's it. Core strength and form are far more important to me than a good belt. Unlike oscar4883, I crank the belt on real tight. It's a preference thing, I guess; I just feel more stable and supported. And, Zach is right on the money...when it's tight, it's not comfortable at all. I sometimes get belt bruise from the damn thing...but, it's all part of the game.

[jad]

I use mine when I do 20 rep squats, DL, or hang cleans. I also belt up for grip events like vbar or 1HDL where it's easy to find yourself in a bad position. As far as making my back weaker: I'd rather have it weak than injured. I do supermans, hypers, etc.. for my lowback so it's not like it's going untrained.

[MalachiMcMullen]

I use mine when I do 20 rep squats, DL, or hang cleans. I also belt up for grip events like vbar or 1HDL where it's easy to find yourself in a bad position. As far as making my back weaker: I'd rather have it weak than injured. I do supermans, hypers, etc.. for my lowback so it's not like it's going untrained.

How do you wear your belt and what kind is it? If it's just a BBer belt or is usually pretty "loose" as belts go then disregard the following.

"Breathing Squats" tend to be hard to do if your wearing something that restricts breathing, like a weight belt. Wearing a belt for lighter work, or high rep work is terrible for you in the long run as far as strength gains are concerned. If your not much bothered by a lack of squat/Dl strength or core stability for strongman events and BW feats(Planche, Flag, Dragon Flag, etc), then by all means wear a belt. It's actually pretty hard to hurt yourself during the big 3 lifts(at sub-maximal weights) so long as your using proper form and know when to drop the attempt(when form breaks down) or drop the weight. Belts are important, but they aren't going to save you in the case of a failed lift, they wont save your back if you pull with a rounded lower back, they will keep you more stable during high rep squats but they impede breathing when worn properly so are still a disadvantage that will slow you down. The safest thing you can do is lift with proper form, or use lighter weights until you know proper form, then belt up for your heavy sets and your heavy sets only. You'll be cheating your core out of extremely beneficial work and strengthening otherwise. It's not just your back I'm talking about, it's all the stabilizer muscles, the entire torso that gets weaker when a belt is worn more often than not.

I don't know anything about AWing but, correct me if I'm wrong, pulling requires a good bit of core strength does it not? Would you not benefit immensely from a stronger, more stable core?

[ae_yogi]

I suspect that most body builders wear belts to hide their belly flab.

I only use a belt for max lifts and then only when I feel I need it.

[oldschoollion]

there is always going to be difference in opinion on this. a few always wear one like its a fashion accessory, most use it in a max lift with most of these only after reaching a minimum weight as a qualification to start using it, and others swear off them entirely.

found this vid searching for something else a while back. its paul chek's reason they should not be used at all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le6WVqvc9cU

[jad]

I use mine when I do 20 rep squats, DL, or hang cleans. I also belt up for grip events like vbar or 1HDL where it's easy to find yourself in a bad position. As far as making my back weaker: I'd rather have it weak than injured. I do supermans, hypers, etc.. for my lowback so it's not like it's going untrained.

How do you wear your belt and what kind is it? If it's just a BBer belt or is usually pretty "loose" as belts go then disregard the following.

"Breathing Squats" tend to be hard to do if your wearing something that restricts breathing, like a weight belt. Wearing a belt for lighter work, or high rep work is terrible for you in the long run as far as strength gains are concerned. If your not much bothered by a lack of squat/Dl strength or core stability for strongman events and BW feats(Planche, Flag, Dragon Flag, etc), then by all means wear a belt. It's actually pretty hard to hurt yourself during the big 3 lifts(at sub-maximal weights) so long as your using proper form and know when to drop the attempt(when form breaks down) or drop the weight. Belts are important, but they aren't going to save you in the case of a failed lift, they wont save your back if you pull with a rounded lower back, they will keep you more stable during high rep squats but they impede breathing when worn properly so are still a disadvantage that will slow you down. The safest thing you can do is lift with proper form, or use lighter weights until you know proper form, then belt up for your heavy sets and your heavy sets only. You'll be cheating your core out of extremely beneficial work and strengthening otherwise. It's not just your back I'm talking about, it's all the stabilizer muscles, the entire torso that gets weaker when a belt is worn more often than not.

I don't know anything about AWing but, correct me if I'm wrong, pulling requires a good bit of core strength does it not? Would you not benefit immensely from a stronger, more stable core?

It's just a cheapo wal-mart belt that I've had since I was a freshmen in HS. I actually have to fold the flaps over each other in the back to get it anywhere near tight and nothing like that Cadarillo that Goody was describing.

I don't consider 20 reppers a high rep exercise. The last 10 or so are more like singles at least the way I perform them; so I'm performing at a max effort on each of the last reps. I'm holding the weight on my back for several seconds and pscyhing myself for a max attempt on the last 10-12 reps, each rep vs. burning out on a set of 21s or dips. Regarding poor form/form breaking down; I agree with you 100%. I'm not advocating poor form, but when I'm pushng for one more rep on DL or squats, I think it would be naieve to think that my form was just as perfect as when I started. What happens when your back starts to round a little bit on your way down on rep 19 of the squats? Are you honestly going to tell me you just dump it or even notice it everytime? I certainly don't, so the belt acts as some insurance for me.

As for AW, I'm sure a strong core would be beneficial but I highly doubt Brzenk, Bagent, Cyplenkov, etc... can perform any of those BW exercises you talked about and they do alright. On a side note; I'm doing supermans over a hyperextension(it's the fulcrum, I use one finger to stabilze if needed) with a weight vest on my heels, and I think that will get me to a planche much faster than beltless squatting or DL. As for flags; I could do them when I was 185# and my "core" workout was crunches with the ab roller and knee-ups.

[MalachiMcMullen]

It's just a cheapo wal-mart belt that I've had since I was a freshmen in HS. I actually have to fold the flaps over each other in the back to get it anywhere near tight and nothing like that Cadarillo that Goody was describing.

I don't consider 20 reppers a high rep exercise. The last 10 or so are more like singles at least the way I perform them; so I'm performing at a max effort on each of the last reps. I'm holding the weight on my back for several seconds and pscyhing myself for a max attempt on the last 10-12 reps, each rep vs. burning out on a set of 21s or dips. Regarding poor form/form breaking down; I agree with you 100%. I'm not advocating poor form, but when I'm pushng for one more rep on DL or squats, I think it would be naieve to think that my form was just as perfect as when I started. What happens when your back starts to round a little bit on your way down on rep 19 of the squats? Are you honestly going to tell me you just dump it or even notice it everytime? I certainly don't, so the belt acts as some insurance for me.

As for AW, I'm sure a strong core would be beneficial but I highly doubt Brzenk, Bagent, Cyplenkov, etc... can perform any of those BW exercises you talked about and they do alright. On a side note; I'm doing supermans over a hyperextension(it's the fulcrum, I use one finger to stabilze if needed) with a weight vest on my heels, and I think that will get me to a planche much faster than beltless squatting or DL. As for flags; I could do them when I was 185# and my "core" workout was crunches with the ab roller and knee-ups.

Ah, then the "belt" you're using doesn't sound like it would affect breathing much. True, the last 5-10 reps on a 20 repper set typically turn into singles if you wait long enough between reps, but that's where the core comes in. I don't have a great core, but I have a massively strong back reletive to my squat weights so rounding isn't currently an issue. If it were, the weight being used shouldn't be so much that slightly compromised form causes injury, but there's always that chance I suppose. And that chance becomes greater with age too I would think. If my form completely breaks down, yes I would dump/drop the weight. I cannot say that my form is perfect all the way through my reps and I'm 100% positive that my form goes to shite during heavy reps, but I sure as hell concentrate on keeping my form and I've had enough mishaps to know when I move out of the safe range form-wise. I know when to drop the weight because I have hurt my back in the past from pulling and squatting improperly. I have gone so far as to do pulls and squats with completely incorrect form to find out what it feels like and know when I should stop pulling. Not everyone would go that far I don't think so in that case, a belt would be great.

20 reppers ARE a high rep exercise no matter what our perception of them. How often do you go over 20 straight reps in your training? I'm not talking about burning out with AW movements or with lighter weights, I'm talking about doing a working set with 20+ reps? If you frequently go over 20 reps, you have a different than average workout.

Your right, I doubt the top AWers could many of the movements(though I wouldn't put Flags out of the realm of possibility) I mentioned. I posted those as examples though. As in, if you want a core more likely capable of those feats or able to handle heavier loads more readily, a belt will be a disadvantage.

[Chris Mathison]

I wear a belt for squats and deads 90% and higher. and almost all yoke carries.

[barbe705]

I wear my rehband belt almost every time I go to the gym. I would only wear more belt when I get close to a max effort. Most of the time go without.

brent

[John Beatty]

I wear a belt when squatting over 500, or DL 600+. You don't need to use it all the time, you'll get stronger without it. I used to use it on push presses over 275, now I don't unless it's over 315.

[John4cars]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think I will continue to go without a belt but for the much heavier lifting. I want to make sure I strengthen my core as much as possible and at the same time doing as much as possible to not injure myself. I feel after all of the research and videoing of my self squatting, I have developed pretty good form. My dead lift however needs some serious work. I have seen many videos but still can't seem to get it right. I really need to find some local power lifting type place or organization locally in KC to help me with my form.

[maidenfan]

I was with the masses in saying "use it when the lifts get heavy", etc. I stopped wearing a belt completely several months ago and havent looked back - it just takes a while to get used to it.

[wscorpion]

I would say only when stability is really an issue.

So with deadlift or squat there's no need for a belt. With Yoke or Push Press it's different since those then to be much harder on the stability of your core, in that case I would say use it during max effort moments

[John4cars]

I would say only when stability is really an issue.

So with deadlift or squat there's no need for a belt. With Yoke or Push Press it's different since those then to be much harder on the stability of your core, in that case I would say use it during max effort moments

That makes sense.

[The Natural]

There's a more subtle view, I think, about the use of belts.

An athlete who trains lots of core lifts will tend to use certain muscles in nearly every exercise. I'm thinking here specifically of the core, and even more specifically the lower back. You want to work the lower back, but when it's been worked and needs recovery, you don't want to work it again. So when I do deadlifts on a Friday, my lower back and core gets plenty of work, and I don't want to work it again for another week at least. But I need to squat on Monday. So I use a belt on Monday to take stress off of the area that needs recovery, while still getting in the necessary leg work.

The same thing goes for straps. Whit Baskin once made a good response to all these people who think that no hard-core lifter uses straps. That's not true. When it's time to work grip, you work the grip. When the grip needs recovery, but you have to do another exercise that would tax the grip without straps (e.g. deadlift), you use the straps.

I think a similar point can be made about belts.

-Rex

[John4cars]

There's a more subtle view, I think, about the use of belts.

An athlete who trains lots of core lifts will tend to use certain muscles in nearly every exercise. I'm thinking here specifically of the core, and even more specifically the lower back. You want to work the lower back, but when it's been worked and needs recovery, you don't want to work it again. So when I do deadlifts on a Friday, my lower back and core gets plenty of work, and I don't want to work it again for another week at least. But I need to squat on Monday. So I use a belt on Monday to take stress off of the area that needs recovery, while still getting in the necessary leg work.

The same thing goes for straps. Whit Baskin once made a good response to all these people who think that no hard-core lifter uses straps. That's not true. When it's time to work grip, you work the grip. When the grip needs recovery, but you have to do another exercise that would tax the grip without straps (e.g. deadlift), you use the straps.

I think a similar point can be made about belts.

-Rex

Thanks Rex. I didn't think about the body needing to recover aspect of it. That is a good thing to keep in mind.