Vince basile

[Roark]

In one of his message boards, Vince mentions me

among others as someone who suggested he try

plate pinching so that a ratio could be established

between plate pinching and his grip machine.

Vince then calls this a situation that contains a

fallacy, that a ratio cannot be established between

these two types of lifts.

I will agree that if someone lifts X on his machine

and only one half of X on plates, that this ratio may

not hold true for every other gripper. BUT. We know

what David Horne can plate pinch, so at least we

could gain an understanding of his ratio with the machine

if he had easy access to it.

But of course the machine is in Australia, so it would

be a more ready solution if Vince would plate pinch and

then compare that number to his machine ability, and

then have several members of his gym try both ways.

Perhaps we could get a feel for the ratio then, at least

in general terms, which is certainly a reasonable goal.

In my opinion EVERY lifter who tries this experiment would

lift far more on the machine than by using plates. Perhaps I

am dead wrong, but the only man in a position to conduct

this experiment will have none of it. So I cannot be proven

wrong until the experiment is conducted.

What is my opinion worth? Nothing. Same as Vince's.

[RiotGrip]

Roark, I'm going to have to agree with you on your opinion of anyone being able to lift more on Vince's machine than on plates.  Vince mentions that some random person at his gym managed a 60kg pinch lift on that machine.  From my experience in decent lifters gyms, there might be one real strong guy (barring actual grip trainers) that could pinch a pair of 35's, this may even be an overestimation, and there may only be a few others that could pinch a pair of 25's cold.  So, the fact that a regular guy at Vince's gym could pinch 60kg (more than herman goerner could do on plates!) , tells me that pinching on this machine offers some type of mechanical advantage to pinching plates--period.

Unless Vince's gym is home to some of the finest unknown gripmasters to ever live, its a safe bet that his machine is easier than plates.  While he may be right that no definite ratio exists between plates and his machine, we can still draw the conclusion that a theoretical ratio would be a little to a lot.  My opinion is no better than the next guy, but I think this conclusion is closer to the realm of fact rather than opinion.

[Guest Jeff Roark]

I tend to be relatively quiet over here at the gripboard. I have been a long time lurker since the ez board days. I guess I'll never be a grip wars veteran because I don't spam the place with posts or comments on everything. Well now to the problem with Vinnie. It is obvious that he does not want to try to establish a ratio between the two types of pinching feats. He is not going to step up to the plate. So, being the supposedly elite of grip over here why doesn't someone who is really gunning after the guy be the big man to step up or shut up? He has offered the challenge.... you could be the world record holder on HIS machine, not plate pinching but HIS machine. If not, you are basically the same as Vinnie.... Its sort of like the Dinnie stones, they're the only ones on earth.... like the Vinnie machine.....

[Roark]

Jeff,

In any situation there are difficult and easy solutions.

If you care to sponsor some of the grip masters here

to make the trip, I wager one of them will accept.

On the other, easy, hand, Vince could simply take a

few steps, place two plates together and give a tug,

but will not do it.

I have a weight in my garage that no one else in the

world has lifted. Never mind that no one overseas has

access to it, I am the only one who has done it. Never

mind that they can outlift me; they have not in fact

journied here to lift MY weight. I remain the champ.

I also hold the chin-up record on MY chin-up bar.

Get my point?

[Guest Jeff Roark]

Joe,

I understand, and I am not taking sides here. The man stated what had been the best pinch/pull on the machine and he did it. I thought that Nick McKinless and Bruce White where in the area? Maybe they can have a whack at it and pinch 400lbs on the #### thing. I think sometimes the internet doesn't become a good place to exchange ideas as some say. I think what irritated me that is I see something I don't like, and the problem is I see it in myself also. Maybe if half of us would shutup and train, and stop quibbling over absolute nonsense maybe we could reach some of the feats set before us by the greats....I have slowly come to hate the internet, but I am hooked on it like a #### soap opera. Okay Mr.Roark if you are like the rest of us roarks with no money then that was ridiculous. Why doesn't the grip board fund a trip for its strongest pincher to go down and put up then shut up Mr.Basile. I do own the world record on chinups on my bar Joe....and noone is allowed to chin off it but me!

[Roark]

I'm so poor I asked a church mouse for a loan.

Bill Gate would be foolish to fund such a trip, and

he has some extra money.

Anyway, I agree with you that we get off on

side issues sometimes, but please keep in mind

who the engineer driving this side-tracked train

is. To not respond would be unwise.

The very point of returning to our training is so

we can establish comparable levels of strength in

known lifts, so when someone comes on here with

a unique machine that is located so far away, it is

not unreasonable to ask for comparative numbers

for how that machine relates to plate pinching. But

sometimes we ask more than a person can, or is

willing, to give.

Back to my chin-ups.

[Guest Jeff Roark]

Joe,

I think he thought he had an incredible feat on hand that noone else could match. When he arrived here he found that it was probably minimal to what others were doing. Its a tall order to be someone around here, being that we honestly have the elite here. Also, I want to appologize to our grip monsters, Scot Clayton, Heath Sexton, David Horne, Richard Sorin and the like, when I said the elite go down and challenge him I was being sarcastic. I was meaning that why don't some of these people that has accomplished very little in grip, that are gunning away at the guy put up or shut up. I am going to shutup now and go back to lurking....and training like some should do... well I'll go run my mouth else where, somewhere I can be the world champion. Take care and good training.

[blueshadow]

Jeff if you are so "up in arms" about this why don't you accept this challenge yourself! Maybe you could out perform Vince! As for becoming a grip wars veteran I don't believe that posting and spamming will make you one! The boards are for posting!! Period how else would you have the oppotunity to lurk as much as you do if the rest of us would not be posting,whether it be our opinions,workouts,etc? Granted I am just a so called newbie but I will persist in posting whenever I feel a need to! Hope the majority feels the same!

[blueshadow]

Jeff,my apologies for not adding this to my last post,but have you quite a few accomplishments in grip yourself? It sounds from your posts as if you do! Apparently you believe Vince has quit an incredible record. Oh, and good luck towards the fulfillment of your own world record,whatever that may be!

[Guest kINGPIN]

I'm with Blueshdow on this one.  If everyone here was a lurker like yourself then there would not be a lot to read.  The more people that post on a thread, the more opinions, ideas, solutions that we can learn about.    

Also, from your post I get the impression that you think a lot of people here just come to read and not apply.  Do you feel that just because Tom Black, Sybersnott, Wannagrip etc. have put out a lot of posts that they are spamming, or is it just grip no-bodies like me that you are piissed at?  From reading and learning I feel that you can save yourself a lot of time in the long run and make an otherwise unproductive routine a productive one just by applying a small bit of info as shared by someone else who has been there before.  A big reward for such a little investment in time.

[blueshadow]

Jeff,unless I am dead wrong,you yourself are just like me and have" accomplished very little in grip", I take it I was one of the ones your comments were aimed at! If you are so quick to defend Basile and his so called "great grip feat" why don't you become one of the ones that are not "gutless "and join his board? I would be like yourself and lurk on that board often just to read your posts!

                  Live Long and Prosper

                            JJ

[Guest Jeff Roark]

Well,

You boys wear your feelings on your shirt sleeves don't you? I'm not the one gunning at the guy. Do I think his record is legit? no. Yes, if I had the money to go I'd try it, would I match him? Well I don't know...For the record boys I do train and train hard, at all of it. When I shut the #3 you'll see me there in the little catalog you have at home...until then relax, and let Vinnie rule the world of pinch! and get a sense of humor. I might be closer to the 3 than you.....

[blueshadow]

All the more power to you,Jeff perhaps then you would not be a "nobody" apparently you are quite insecure about yourself! I guess you check out that little catalog quite a bit yourself if you aspire to be in it! I hope you do smash the # 3 then your crticisms would have a little bit of credence behind them! What a shame it takes something like this to get you to post once in a while!

[Roark]

Jeff,

You're a Roark, which in addition to meaning that

you no doubt have a physique that makes women

swoon and men beet-red with angry jealously, means

that you should stop lurking, keep posting, and express

yourself; this is America!

You have nothing to apologize for and certainly no

reason to abandon our little phonetic-free-for-all. I

wasn't sharp enough to detect your sarcasm, so keep

it coming, I'll catch on! Now get off your ill-shaped

glutes and start typing!

[Guest Jeff Roark]

Thanks Joe,

Yeah all 5'5 200lbs of me! Don't forget that I do have unusual genetics in my forearms and when I get serious about them watch out. Joe, I am starting the Keys to Progress routine by McCallum come the first of the year. Hopefully by the time I make it to the end I will be Herculean... I do think we need to relax over here a little, remember what happened with Mr Horne... Maybe Joe we get you to do strip shows for nasty old women to raise money for one Mr Basiles trip to where ever we deem! But, I figure if he has enough money to go to those pumper shows and pay 4 grand for the super-duper pincher he could definately take up Sybersnotts challenge, one of D.H. contests or even go see Kevin Fulton. Then again he may just want to be champion of his gym, like I want to be champion of mine....

[blueshadow]

 Perhaps we should call this the Jeff and Joe Roark page,Eh?! just kidding"boys")!    

[AnimalCage]

If I change my name to Roark, can I have a body like that?  

I think Jeff's idea has merit.  Vince has attacked the board as a whole, and I would like to see us respond with a united front.  I'd love to see our "best" humiliate him.  As much as we would all love a $4000 Vince special, and/or fly one of our heroes to Australia, some of us can barely afford to buy ourselves cheap machinery.  The question at hand is one of feasability.  

Let's not forget his machine has never been compared to anything else.  Also, no one here has trained on it.  We can speculate about the outcome, but that doesn't go far.  I vote we let Mr. Basile rant all he wants.  Good or bad, it's free advertising, and hopefully the Basile-ites can decide for themselves where the merit lies.

[Roark]

AnimalCage,

Yes, changing your name to Roark will work! I

had eight other names before this one, and had

only a moderate physique.( Notice my lack of photo-

graphic evidence...)

Regarding Vince, who by the way, won Mr. Canada,

and unlike my pretensions of muscularity, actually

deserves respect for that, I believe the board has

responded in a united front to him. It is he who has

not responded with the obvious conclusion of pinching

some plates.

By comparing the Super Gripper to the COC grippers

we have an approximate ratio established; it is not

insisted that someone travel thousands of miles to

try one or the other of the grippers under the assertion

that no ratio can be established.

[Guest Jeff Roark]

Animal, change and you will be blessed with super genetics for being poor! Like I said, I think Vince wanted to come here and be special, do you understand what I mean? I think he didn't realize he landed in the middle of elite central. I do think he has got a bit of jealousy about not being a COC. I was making the point of instead of beating him to death with our gums attempt to dupliate him or go and challenge him on his turf! Yes it would be simple to just go and pinch a plate and let us know the outcome, but he is not game enough for that. So I figured we could put up or shut up and not be another VB. He apparently has money, he could make the trip here. Can the IGC sponsor him or establish a contest where it will be a benefit for us and Mr Basile? Could he be the greatest troll to ever land on the grip page? I've seen it happen...when asked to put up they can't, and can't shut up....

[AnimalCage]

Joe,  I do respect the man for his accomplishments.  He's quite a sizeable dude!  And I think we have a united front, but sometimes it isn't presented that way.  The bickering makes us look silly. Every family has squabbles.  I'd just hate to give him any joy at our expense.

Jeff, I agree.  I don't think it took him long to realize the caliber of members here.  I think he became frustrated because he couldn't sway us over to his way of thinking.  His opinion in the sport of physical development is long-developed, like some here, and those are not easily changed.  (Compared to an utter novice like me).  That's what makes this board great.  If it works for you, do it.  If you suggest something, and I have the means, I'll try it.  But if I disagree with you, respectfully, please don't put on a bigger pair of boots.

Animal Roark

[AnimalCage]

Hey, has anyone seen my wallet??  (Oh no, it's happening already!?!)