Question Concerning Loss Of Bending Strength...

[gothrik]

Ok this is kinda weird...I was doing pushups everyday while lifting really high reps (like 20 rep squats and 100 rep bench in single sets.) and my bending went way up to 4.65 inch blues from being barly able to do a blue. my question though is that now that I stopped doing pushups (cause I burnt out doing them every day) and switched to power (set of 20 to warm up and then 5 reps or less for several sets) my bends have dropped where on some days blues are hard to do. I had gone and bought a bunch of stock up at the next levels cause blues were getting so easy.

Anyways the question is, why are my bends going to pot when I switched to power...is it just that I am out of groove or what is going on? I figured when I went power and my # in what I could move when up my bends would go up quickly too.

Thanks in advance to any advice about this paradox.

(PS: same thing seems to be happening to my grip, dropped from a IM 2 no set left and right to the 1.5 not even happening some days...)

Oh sorry if this is confusing lol...I was kinda rambling...

[vikingsrule92]

There could be several reasons for this. Maybe your bending strength responds better to high rep bench then lower reps with higher weight. I personally don't like to bench while doing bending, they really conflict with eachother and bring your numbers for both down by doing the other. Bench will hurt your bending power from what I've experienced and by what others have told me. It could also be that you're overtrained, maybe you need to take a few weeks off of grip training to let yourself heal up and then you'll come back stronger than ever.

Yeah I could tell you were rambling, I had to re-read it a few times to get all of the facts straight

[EricMilfeld]

It's also possible, because often times success with difficult bends are determined by your ability to endure for several minutes of straining, that higher reps better prepare you for that endurance trial.

[TKtheGreek]

your CNS (central nervous system) is definitly shot, after burnout sets like max push ups the CNS gets completly wasted and it takes a while for it to recover and for you to get explosion back. Just give it time In my opinion and burnout sets of pushups are not good for stregnth unles uoyur a gymnast or something

[timiacobucci]

I think you are probably just more tired now from doing heavy lifting and you are going into the bending fatigued. How many bending sessions has it been harder like this?

If it is just one, sometimes you just have a bad day, either your not recovered well or trying to fight off a cold or something trying to get you, it takes allot to bend even blues, so it is easy to get thrown off track. I mean sometimes when I goto warm up on a 60d or something and it feels way to hard, I know it's just not the day to bend and don't even continue. Rest up and give it another shot and see what happens.

As for the correlation between lifting and bending I actually don't think there is much. The movements and timing are very different. Being strong and have a strong chest arms and back will definitely help when your wrists and tendons develop enough to put the power to the ground so to speak, but I don't think max chest and arm power are the limiting factor unless you cannot finish the crush down on something.

Honestly to get better at bending the best training is bending, and bending isometrics. Lift how you want to lift regardless of bending. Although I do think the big movements like deads and squats boost your body's response to grow and get stronger which helps recover from bending but this is mostly a side effect not a direct result if you see what I mean.

Also I don't think endurance training will do squat for bending, unless you are talking like prolonged max isometrics. Like hitting a bend iso for 10 sec as many times as you can in 5 minutes, this takes some serious endurane and is exactly what you need for a tough bend, but a max pushup set I think is about as far as you can get from that.

[pklidaras]

just gonna add my .02 pence....i'll deffo second what Derek said about the benching and bending...though i don't bend at anywhere near the level of a lot of the guys here....i am starting to move my bench in the right direction.....290 after 8 months of training it, and i will say that the tendon pain in the forearms from bending can be quite exquisite...so i think if you are gonna do both, you have to be prepared for some fairly serious aches and pains and a possibility of slower rates of progression in both...the pains can be managed by careful loading of volume and intensity though and adequate recovery measures

[matthcarl]

I personally thought doing pushups helped my bending since the pecs help crush inward. I also noticed my bench improve somewhat after I started bending, though that's always been a weak lift for me. I don't overkill, but I think all three are related and can help each other.

[pburke23]

Ok this is kinda weird...I was doing pushups everyday while lifting really high reps (like 20 rep squats and 100 rep bench in single sets.) and my bending went way up to 4.65 inch blues from being barly able to do a blue. my question though is that now that I stopped doing pushups (cause I burnt out doing them every day) and switched to power (set of 20 to warm up and then 5 reps or less for several sets) my bends have dropped where on some days blues are hard to do. I had gone and bought a bunch of stock up at the next levels cause blues were getting so easy.

Anyways the question is, why are my bends going to pot when I switched to power...is it just that I am out of groove or what is going on? I figured when I went power and my # in what I could move when up my bends would go up quickly too.

Thanks in advance to any advice about this paradox.

(PS: same thing seems to be happening to my grip, dropped from a IM 2 no set left and right to the 1.5 not even happening some days...)

Oh sorry if this is confusing lol...I was kinda rambling...

100 rep flats serve absolutely no purpose what-so-ever, I would drop ever doing them again immediately. Just to ask, what was your purpose for doing them? If you were training purely for muscle endurance, then 15 reps is fine. You don't really need to do sets with any more. 20 rep squats however, can serve their purpose, but I wouldn't recommend doing them more than 1 set every week/2 weeks. Like was talked about, the CNS (central nervous system) takes an absolute beating from them, and would very quickly cause you to overtrain.

Another thing I think you are confusing is power vs strength, higher rep work like from 12-16 is generally considered for muscle endurance, strength work usually from around 4-8 reps, and people training for power work in very low rep ranges, like singles or doubles mainly because it is purely neural work.

If you are using a 5 rep range, increasing all your primary lifts (squat, flats, deads, rows) each week by 2.5-5.0lbs then you will be getting stronger, and this will not be having a negative impact on your bending. gl.

[makey98]

I haven't been on this board much recently but I personally have a lot of experience in decreasing levels of strength due to overtraining. My sincere advice is this: DON'T make the same mistake I did and work harder! You need to stop bending or any grip work for at least 7 days! 10-14 might be better. I promise you will not lose strength. You might even make a PR. Eat some good food, sleep well, and let us know what happens!

[gothrik]

OK I guess my first post wasn't clear enough...I had only about 45 seconds to type it before my time on the computer expired...

First off I stopped doing pushups about 1.5 months ago. I had built up slowly always going sub failure for 3 sets every day. I got up to 80x3 but then I couldn't do 25 one day so I stopped and haven't really gone back.

Secondly I switched to power for all body parts about 3 weeks ago.

Thridly I do not do bench and bending on days anywhere near each other. (I usually bend on sunday after resting friday and saturday.)

Fourth my bending seemed to progress best when I was doing 3-20 bends every sunday but it was somewhat weaker stock and then something hard. That was probably mostly form/skill increase.

Fifth my max bends have never taken long the kink is my hardest part even the time I bent the 4.65 inch blue I finished it to less than 2 inches at the legs in under 1 minute. Any bend I have started the kink on just basicly slowly moves in till completion. If I really "Explode" (though I am not very explosive at all which is why I sucked at O lifts when I did them in competition my freshman year of high-school) the bend my go about 1/3 the way in about 2 seconds and then I'll just grind it down stead till I'm done. My average bend time is usually less than 20 seconds if I can kink it.

now that I have clarified what do you guys think? Any ideas how I should adjust my training...?

Also how much harder are department store bolts then blues? (same thickness and length.)

[gothrik]

100 rep flats serve absolutely no purpose what-so-ever, I would drop ever doing them again immediately.

Another thing I think you are confusing is power vs strength, higher rep work like from 12-16 is generally considered for muscle endurance, strength work usually from around 4-8 reps, and people training for power work in very low rep ranges, like singles or doubles mainly because it is purely neural work.

If you are using a 5 rep range, increasing all your primary lifts (squat, flats, deads, rows) each week by 2.5-5.0lbs then you will be getting stronger, and this will not be having a negative impact on your bending. gl.

Ok more clarification I was doing high rep to build some endurance and mass at the time (2 inches added to my chest over 8 weeks.) Further I went from 65# for 100 to 82.5# for 100 in that 8 weeks...I'd say that was huge gains and I never felt overtrained. Also right now I warm up with 20 reps or so and then start sets with 5 reps being my HIGH reps and I progress all the way down to singles...some days I just warm up and then do singles or doubles, some days I do sets of 5 depends how I feel or am doing at the moment.

I personally feel hundreds did a lot for me, but I may be an abnormal case (my dad used to bench 220# for 20 reps but couldn't lift 225#!!!!) So maybe my genes are a little strange. I was doing high reps at my dads sugestion though he didn't mean that high I later learned (he ment 30-15 reps lol, and I remembering him saying that 10 reps was low for him went REALLY high.)

anyways thanks in advance for any advice and sorry if I have rambled again.

[AdamTGlass]

I know i am over trained right now-and thats why i am taking the next 10 days off. Last night was a horrible work out, and that keyed me in to it.

Take a week off, it will only make you stronger.

Also for bolts vs blues

A Grade 2 1/4X6" bolts is easier than a blue. A Gr2 does not have hatch marks or anything on the head

A Grade 5 is harder that a blue by 20-25% these have three hatch marks usually

A grade 8 is much harder than a blue-maybe 50% you will have to work to these. They are usually gold and have 6 hatch marks on the head

A grade 9 is almost harder then a 7" red nail, very springy, they have 9 hatches

Most benders agree once you can bend 5" Gr 8 bolts your ready to start training on Reds.

[matthcarl]

I have been raiding various hardware stores looking for different bolts to bend. The overwhelming majority are grade 2's (shiny without hatch marks as mantioned above). However you can get 5/16" thick g2's that have a tougher kink than a blue, but an easier crushdown. I also got a few 3/8" g2's but haven't tried them yet. I haven't seen many g5's, but g8's are pretty common and are gold colored. I think the 6" kinks OK, but has a really tough crushdown...even harder than a bastard. Once I kinked a bastard I could finish it in less than a minute...not so with a g8.

[vikingsrule92]

I have been raiding various hardware stores looking for different bolts to bend. The overwhelming majority are grade 2's (shiny without hatch marks as mantioned above). However you can get 5/16" thick g2's that have a tougher kink than a blue, but an easier crushdown. I also got a few 3/8" g2's but haven't tried them yet. I haven't seen many g5's, but g8's are pretty common and are gold colored. I think the 6" kinks OK, but has a really tough crushdown...even harder than a bastard. Once I kinked a bastard I could finish it in less than a minute...not so with a g8.

Most 5/16" G2s at 6" are a little easier than a G8, but I've also heard of some as easy as a Blue and some as hard as a Huge Bastard. BTW Matt, most 3/8" G2s are about an Edgin level, so good luck with that

[matthcarl]

I have been raiding various hardware stores looking for different bolts to bend. The overwhelming majority are grade 2's (shiny without hatch marks as mantioned above). However you can get 5/16" thick g2's that have a tougher kink than a blue, but an easier crushdown. I also got a few 3/8" g2's but haven't tried them yet. I haven't seen many g5's, but g8's are pretty common and are gold colored. I think the 6" kinks OK, but has a really tough crushdown...even harder than a bastard. Once I kinked a bastard I could finish it in less than a minute...not so with a g8.

Most 5/16" G2s at 6" are a little easier than a G8, but I've also heard of some as easy as a Blue and some as hard as a Huge Bastard. BTW Matt, most 3/8" G2s are about an Edgin level, so good luck with that

Ah, well, I think the calibration numbers can be deceiving. Like I said, I still struggle with G8's on the crushdown, but I have tried different 5/16" g2 brands and once I kink them they go down under an inch in a few hits. I still have to try the 3/8, but I suspect it will follow a similar pattern of being tough to kink, but then bending relatively easily. I haven't tried a 5" G8, though. Maybe tomorrow, and I'll see how it compares to the bastard, which I feel I own now.

[gothrik]

ok as far as being overtrained and taking a rest when I switched to power I took 1 week off that was 3 weeks ago. Last week I took 4 days off, and this week I only trained 2 days instead of 5 because I thought I might be overtraining...but my lifts just keep going down and down for bends and grippers....other stuff is doing fine like TGUs but in general everything hs been going to pot exept my max bench which went up to 215 (my best ever was 220 but a wrist injury snow boarding last year and then some over training with HIT dropped it to 165# around june.)

So I think I have fairly well ruled out over training...any other ideas? Or do you think I could still be overtrained?

Also I don't get the bolt thing, the bolts I have are hex headded with threads only at the end of the bolt. Further the only marking is a

B

L

looking thing on them the B and the L are conected with the L coming out of the bottom curve of the B...

Any Idea what level or hardness it is? I got it from Home depot. (I think)

Edited February 2, 2008 by The Steve Train

[vikingsrule92]

ok as far as being overtrained and taking a rest when I switched to power I took 1 week off that was 3 weeks ago. Last week I took 4 days off, and this week I only trained 2 days instead of 5 because I thought I might be overtraining...but my lifts just keep going down and down for bends and grippers....other stuff is doing fine like TGUs but in general everything hs been going to pot exept my max bench which went up to 215 (my best ever was 220 but a wrist injury snow boarding last year and then some over training with HIT dropped it to 165# around june.)

So I think I have fairly well ruled out over training...any other ideas? Or do you think I could still be overtrained?

Also I don't get the bolt thing, the bolts I have are hex headded with threads only at the end of the bolt. Further the only marking is a

B

L

looking thing on them the B and the L are conected with the L coming out of the bottom curve of the B...

Any Idea what level or hardness it is? I got it from Home depot. (I think)

It's hard to say what the reason could be. It still could be that you're overtrained, one week isn't that long when you're overtrained. It could also be that your lifts are conflicting, like different lifts are slowing each other down.

If the only marking is a B and L, it's a Grade 2, and those are the typical types of bolts Home Depot carries. With G5s, it has 3 tick marks going inward from the outside head of the bolt to the inside, same goes for G8s with 6 ticks and Grade 9s with 9. I'll post a pic of the difference in a few minutes so when people ask this it'll be easier to understand.

[matthcarl]

ok as far as being overtrained and taking a rest when I switched to power I took 1 week off that was 3 weeks ago. Last week I took 4 days off, and this week I only trained 2 days instead of 5 because I thought I might be overtraining...but my lifts just keep going down and down for bends and grippers....other stuff is doing fine like TGUs but in general everything hs been going to pot exept my max bench which went up to 215 (my best ever was 220 but a wrist injury snow boarding last year and then some over training with HIT dropped it to 165# around june.)

So I think I have fairly well ruled out over training...any other ideas? Or do you think I could still be overtrained?

Also I don't get the bolt thing, the bolts I have are hex headded with threads only at the end of the bolt. Further the only marking is a

B

L

looking thing on them the B and the L are conected with the L coming out of the bottom curve of the B...

Any Idea what level or hardness it is? I got it from Home depot. (I think)

Technically what we call "bolts" on this board are really "hex fasteners," according to the hardware store shelving. I'v ebent a few of those BL bolts. If it's 1/4" diameter it should be easy for you. If it's 5/16, the kink will be harder than a blue. It is a grade 2 like Derek said.

[vikingsrule92]

Steve, there's a pic of bolt heads in my gallery. I hope this will clear things up. It shows different bolts, read the description for the details. http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?autocom...si&img=6896

[timiacobucci]

I guess there is allot of variance on the g2 bolts, the 5/16" x 6" BL's I had were pretty damn hard. I would say equal kink as a 7" bastard and crush just under a 6" g8. I can't imagine something that big having an easier crush than a blue, hell even a 5" blue.

I've been doing isos on cheat kinked 3/8" x 6" BL g2's. They are no joke. I think I actually moved the crush iso bar down a bit from 3". It was about 5 seconds into an iso and I was so surprised I let off it, hasn't happen since but it is certainly encouraging.

As for overtraining, certainly listen to your body but I think it is seriously allot harder to overtrain than most people think. If you eat allot of protein and vitamin C and sleep enough you can take one hell of allot of abuse and keep bouncing back stronger. I have seen the biggest gains in bending from doing sets of 10 second isos every day for a week straight at times. It seems counter productive and painful at first but your body responds and adapts to it. I thought it was crazy at first but I was trying things that Gazza had said he did and low and behold it really works. And I don't think anyone is gonna argue with the results Gazza has shown.

[vikingsrule92]

I guess there is allot of variance on the g2 bolts, the 5/16" x 6" BL's I had were pretty damn hard. I would say equal kink as a 7" bastard and crush just under a 6" g8. I can't imagine something that big having an easier crush than a blue, hell even a 5" blue.

Well Eric cal'd some 307A 5/16" x 6" G2 bolts at 305, so they are around a blue.

[gothrik]

I guess there is allot of variance on the g2 bolts, the 5/16" x 6" BL's I had were pretty damn hard. I would say equal kink as a 7" bastard and crush just under a 6" g8. I can't imagine something that big having an easier crush than a blue, hell even a 5" blue.

Well Eric cal'd some 307A 5/16" x 6" G2 bolts at 305, so they are around a blue.

Perhaps among the G2s there is a ton of varriance like in horseshoes (not speaking from experiance just what I have read.)

I was just suprised that I couldn't move the 1/4x6 bolt when blues were easy...now blues are getting hard again as I said...maybe I am just loosing form....I will try the 10 second Iso thing every day and see how it goes...I only have strait peices to ISO on so I will use those...How many isos should I do? I will start with 3 sets of 10 (might very the length.)

[gothrik]

I think I figured out my problem,

I went and measured my blues (cerc not diameter)

and then measured the g2s I had bent....they were about the same size...a little over 1 3/4 an inch around.

Then I measured what I thought was the 1/4x6 g2, it was over 2 inches around. SO I am assuming that its really 5/16 and not 1/4 like the blues. I guess I just thought it was 1/4. Maybe that is why I couldn't bend it. What would the poundage on a 5/16x6 g2 be?

[vikingsrule92]

I think I figured out my problem,

I went and measured my blues (cerc not diameter)

and then measured the g2s I had bent....they were about the same size...a little over 1 3/4 an inch around.

Then I measured what I thought was the 1/4x6 g2, it was over 2 inches around. SO I am assuming that its really 5/16 and not 1/4 like the blues. I guess I just thought it was 1/4. Maybe that is why I couldn't bend it. What would the poundage on a 5/16x6 g2 be?

I'm assuming you mean 2 cm, because 2 in would mean it's a 5/8" bar. If it is cm, I'm still confused because my 1/4" stuff is about 2.5 cm. Can you clear this up? Your numbers don't make ANY sense at all.

[matthcarl]

Yes, I'm a little confused myself. I just measured a 3/8" diameter G2 and the circ. is only 1.5" (3.5cm).