Bastard And Red Go Down

[timiacobucci]

Picture

I finally killed the bastard and red today with some new suede wraps. The new wraps are not very big, just under 1" on a 5/16" bar but they are soft and grippy which I think helped allot. I am psyched, I have been working for this goal for more than a year now.

I also did a 6" g2 and a 6" x 5/16" steelworks hrs, the crush on that is not far from the bastard steel. I tried a 6" bastard but my tendons were really starting to hurt by this time. I am 90 percent sure I will get it next time, I have finished a cheat kinked 6" before and the kink in this one was not far from where I started the other.

I will see if I can get a video of that one next time too.

I am a bit late in the game for the grand bastard contest but I propose a new challenge after that. A race to the shiny.

[vikingsrule92]

Great job Tim!! You'll get that Huge soon!!! It was a race to the Mag btw, and I'm up for a race to the shiny, but I don't know if I'll come anywhere close to winning

[timiacobucci]

You know, I knew that, I really don't know why it came out grand when I typed it. I guess the weird names just confuse me sometimes. I meant I am late for the race to the 5" Bastard. I know you got the 5.5" already.

Have any of you guys tried a cheat kinked Shiny yet?

[David_wigren]

Great bend Tim! Welcome to the big leage! BTW What wraps where you using before?

A race to the shiny sounds fun... A cheat kinked one, why would anyone need to cheat kink one

[ox3782]

Nice session Tim!!!

Brendan

[foxyj75]

Great bends Tim!! That Huge Bastard will die next time!! Nice Job!

[crobb1320]

Great work,Those are some real nice bends,congrats.

[vikingsrule92]

Great bend Tim! Welcome to the big leage! BTW What wraps where you using before?

A race to the shiny sounds fun... A cheat kinked one, why would anyone need to cheat kink one

Hey, you've already done one, you can't participate

[MalachiMcMullen]

Have any of you guys tried a cheat kinked Shiny yet?

I've tried several pieces of 5/16x7 304 stainless which I hear is tough stuff(never tried 303, my shop doesn't get many orders for it for some reason), haven't finished one but I have a couple nice iso bars well past 90

[timiacobucci]

Thanks allot guys, it's been a long time coming, I am pretty happy today.

Great bend Tim! Welcome to the big leage! BTW What wraps where you using before?

A race to the shiny sounds fun... A cheat kinked one, why would anyone need to cheat kink one

I was using thicker but shorter leather, about the same thickness as the new when wrapped. It was sort of slipperier and it seems to rip through and tear easier. It was about impossible to wrap tight but even my loose suede with no elastics gripped to itself allot better and gave a much better feel for the bar as well. I have been having allot of trouble finding the right position for kinking harder stuff and this helped a ton.

It's funny it was a printed scrap I found at Tandy Leather, it has some golden swirly pattern on one side you can sort of see it in the picture, it is behind the bent bars. My pretty golden swirl bastard killer wraps, hahaha.

Also what else is there at the 7" range to use to progress to the shiny. I know I can keep cutting down the bastards and do isos on cheat kinked shiny's but that doesn't help bring up my 7" kink any.

[timiacobucci]

I've tried several pieces of 5/16x7 304 stainless which I hear is tough stuff(never tried 303, my shop doesn't get many orders for it for some reason), haven't finished one but I have a couple nice iso bars well past 90

Where did you start the kink at and about how far past 90 can you get it now?

[ox3782]

Thanks allot guys, it's been a long time coming, I am pretty happy today.

Great bend Tim! Welcome to the big leage! BTW What wraps where you using before?

A race to the shiny sounds fun... A cheat kinked one, why would anyone need to cheat kink one

I was using thicker but shorter leather, about the same thickness as the new when wrapped. It was sort of slipperier and it seems to rip through and tear easier. It was about impossible to wrap tight but even my loose suede with no elastics gripped to itself allot better and gave a much better feel for the bar as well. I have been having allot of trouble finding the right position for kinking harder stuff and this helped a ton.

It's funny it was a printed scrap I found at Tandy Leather, it has some golden swirly pattern on one side you can sort of see it in the picture, it is behind the bent bars. My pretty golden swirl bastard killer wraps, hahaha.

Also what else is there at the 7" range to use to progress to the shiny. I know I can keep cutting down the bastards and do isos on cheat kinked shiny's but that doesn't help bring up my 7" kink any.

I felt that a Golden Bastard 3/8x7 Brass was very similar but just eaiser than a Shiny and was great progression for me and also the stuff Zach was talking about 304 stainless 5/16x7" they helped me a lot.And of course Isos on the shinys.

Brendan

[Alawadhi]

Well done

[timiacobucci]

Thats cool about the brass, it seem like a good path would be 7" bastard, to 70d, to 7" x 5/16" hex, to 7" 3/8" g2 bolt, to 7" x 3/8" brass, to shiny. Thats a long road. Any idea where a36 hrs fall in the scheme here?

[vikingsrule92]

Thats cool about the brass, it seem like a good path would be 7" bastard, to 70d, to 7" x 5/16" hex, to 7" 3/8" g2 bolt, to 7" x 3/8" brass, to shiny. Thats a long road. Any idea where a36 hrs fall in the scheme here?

Not entirely true. If you're talking about the new hexabastards they're supposably harder than the Shiny because of the kink. I'd say 7" Bastard, 70d (assuming it's not the insanely easy china ones I have from FBBC), 7 x 3/8" Brass, 7" x 3/8" HRS, Shiny. The 3/8" G2 is well harder than a shiny, they cal at 590 and are much harder to kink than soft stainless (not from experience, just based on logic). Although it does depends on the brand for the cal number, they are still most harder than a shiny from what I see on Eric's list. And even the lighter cal'd ones would probably be harder since the shiny has a softer kink than a bolt.

Edited January 24, 2008 by vikingsrule92

[bencrush]

Thats cool about the brass, it seem like a good path would be 7" bastard, to 70d, to 7" x 5/16" hex, to 7" 3/8" g2 bolt, to 7" x 3/8" brass, to shiny. Thats a long road. Any idea where a36 hrs fall in the scheme here?

Great job Tim!

3/8"X7" HRS-A36 is quite a bit easier than a Shiny. It sure wouldn't hurt to train with it since it ramps up on the crushdown. The closest steel to the Shiny (Stainless-303) is the Stainless-304. It's still a good deal easier than the Shiny but it'll get you used to the increased ramp up on the crushdown. 5/16" Drill Rod is easier overall than Stainless-304 so it's a good step to get to the pre Shiny stage. I like the 3/8" Brass too but haven't bent much of it. The shortish pieces I bent last year ramped up very nicely and if it wasn't so damn expensive per inch (@ 40 cents per inch at my Fastenal for 3/8" Brass) I would have bought more of it. But now I'm glad I didn't since I just gave all my stock away. If you could only afford one type of steel in about a 20 foot length I'd buy the Stainless-304. It'll get you to the Shiny in no time.

[bencrush]

I've tried several pieces of 5/16x7 304 stainless which I hear is tough stuff(never tried 303, my shop doesn't get many orders for it for some reason), haven't finished one but I have a couple nice iso bars well past 90

Good solid bend man. The Stainless-303 is quite a bit harder but that's not said to demoralize you. Just be ready for it when you start smashing through the S-304 because you will soon enough if you keep your focus.

[MalachiMcMullen]

I've tried several pieces of 5/16x7 304 stainless which I hear is tough stuff(never tried 303, my shop doesn't get many orders for it for some reason), haven't finished one but I have a couple nice iso bars well past 90

Where did you start the kink at and about how far past 90 can you get it now?

I started with straight bars, the furthest one I have is right over 120 degrees, about 121. I've only kinked 3 and all felt pretty much the same and they all stopped right around 100 degrees which starts my weak point, the crushdown. The one I kinked about a week ago is still at 96 degrees on account of me not bothering with it yet. That stuff gets so springy! I can feel it move at least 1/8" but it pushes out again Good luck going for the shiny Tim!!!

3/8"X7" HRS-A36 is quite a bit easier than a Shiny. It sure wouldn't hurt to train with it since it ramps up on the crushdown. The closest steel to the Shiny (Stainless-303) is the Stainless-304. It's still a good deal easier than the Shiny but it'll get you used to the increased ramp up on the crushdown. 5/16" Drill Rod is easier overall than Stainless-304 so it's a good step to get to the pre Shiny stage. I like the 3/8" Brass too but haven't bent much of it. The shortish pieces I bent last year ramped up very nicely and if it wasn't so damn expensive per inch (@ 40 cents per inch at my Fastenal for 3/8" Brass) I would have bought more of it. But now I'm glad I didn't since I just gave all my stock away. If you could only afford one type of steel in about a 20 foot length I'd buy the Stainless-304. It'll get you to the Shiny in no time.

Ben, you wouldn't happen to know what the Shiny's are would you? 312(I think that's the #) Stainless perhaps? I can get my hands on some of that and test it against some FBBC Shiny's.

EDIT: Thank's Ben!

Sorry for hijacking the thread there for a sec Tim PLEASE get one on video because it looks like you can massacre those things!!! You crushed them all down really deep!!!

Edited January 24, 2008 by MalachiMcMullen

[bencrush]

Not entirely true. If you're talking about the new hexabastards they're supposably harder than the Shiny because of the kink. I'd say 7" Bastard, 70d (assuming it's not the insanely easy china ones I have from FBBC), 7 x 3/8" Brass, 7" x 3/8" HRS, Shiny. The 3/8" G2 is well harder than a shiny, they cal at 590 and are much harder to kink than soft stainless (not from experience, just based on logic). Although it does depends on the brand for the cal number, they are still most harder than a shiny from what I see on Eric's list. And even the lighter cal'd ones would probably be harder since the shiny has a softer kink than a bolt.

That's so strange about the hard Hexes. Because I got my hands on a few of the hard ones (sent by a friend) last year and went right through them without noticing a difference. But I believe it since I have heard so much about them.

There are some of the 3/8" G2s that calibrate lower than a Shiny and I used to have some. They were a good stepping stone, and regardless of their calibration, the crushdown on those that were close (within @ 20 pounds-lower than the Shiny) to the Shiny just melted at 90 and closer. They don't ramp up much until you hit the mid to high 500s on the 3/8" G2s in my experience.

Cheapest would be to buy a bunch of 3/8" HRS-A36 though and just cut it down a bit if you need to or do multi stage chopdown bends.

[neilkaz]

Great work, Tim

[bencrush]

Ben, you wouldn't happen to know what the Shiny's are would you? 312(I think that's the #) Stainless perhaps? I can get my hands on some of that and test it against some FBBC Shiny's.

I can't speak officially, of course only John himself can...but I've bent a lot of steel and the Shinys are Stainless-303 IMO. Buy it from McMaster Carr and it'll treat you right.

I know your weak range (only for now) is the crushdown. So to combat that and still work with the same steel as the Shiny, you ought to buy a long length (20-100 feet) of Stainless-303 from McMaster or wherever you can get it. Not Stainless-304. Read on. Cut a 10" piece and then cheatkink it however you want to about 3" between the tips. If you're a crush pad user (I was) then use the crush pads to crush that SOB down to 2" or under if you're able to. If you are not a fan of the crush pads, put your normal pads on and crush it down as far as you can. Doesn't matter if it's 20 minutes to get it to 2". You ought to be able to move the 10" length of S-303 with only moderate-hard exertion I think. Keep track of the total time it took you to go from that 3" to the 2" or under mark. And it's a good idea to keep track of the amount of "hits" or attempts it took to crush it down. If you just can't get it to 2" all is not lost. Hopefully you moved it a bit and now you know what? You are now officially working with the same steel as your goal bend! True it's not the same length but this is the same method I prescribed to a non board member friend of mine and he has done some superb bends in the past few months using it. You will quickly get used to the feeling of having to strain for a bit longer than the body really wants to. I was terrible about being almost a "one pump chump" when it came to isos and hard attempts. I'd hit it for up to 3 seconds and then my strength would leave the room. Had to get used to the feeling of pushing for about double the amount of time that my mind and body reasoned would be long enough. It made all the difference in the world in the end. I think my first Shiny was September and my Grand Shiny was May. Not exactly a rocket ride but quick enough for me.

If you crushed that 10" piece of S-303 down to 2" or under reward yourself in the next workout by repeating the same process with a 9.5" piece of S-303. Once you crush that piece down to 2" or below, repeat the process as long as you want to. Progressively going shorter by either 1/2" increments or 1/4" increments if you want to go a little slower. If it takes you 3 workouts to crush it down then so be it. You are getting stronger regardless of how long it takes. I really believe if you adopt this method, along with full bends and other training methods, that you'll get to the Shiny level quicker than you would by just trying to move up in a stair step method...although I have nothing but respect for the stair step method.

[EricMilfeld]

Congratulations, Tim!

[timiacobucci]

Thanks again guys.

I am surprised you are saying that you think the shiny is 303. The yeild strength on that and 304 is only just above 30k psi. Hrs and allot of aluminum are stronger than that. I would have guessed 316, but if you are right then 316 must be really psycho. Though I really don't understand how that could be true. I beleive you though so I will just have to get some 303 and 3/8" a36 and give them a go. I think allot of the scrolls I did were 304 and that seems pretty close to crs. Even the 5/16" in that frog I made was not crazy tough.

Thanks for the compliments on the crush, I have always tried to get stuff to under 1 1/2" I figure it will help when I get to the real hard stuff like stainless to get it under 2". I was surprised at how hard and springy the crush on the red was compared to the bastard and the others. It was very hard to get under 1 1/2".

[gazza]

Tim

First off congrats on a great bending session.

2nd you have alot of overall body strength which shows in your braced bending so you certainly have alot going 4 you once you get your unbraced techniques dialled in all that strength youve built will show.

Ben

put a few good posts there he knows his stuff i would follow what hes said in the above posts and you wont go wrong.

Buy as much of the 304 and a length of the 303 as you can afford and like was said above just keep hitting the 304 and every now and then trie a piece of the 303 to see were you are at.

A couple of other things you might try as well:-

1. Cut some 303 x 5/16"x 7 1/4"-1/2" the slightly longer bars help with the shoulder flexibility and the kink.

2, Always try and move the stainless as fast as you can on the 90degrees this saves you some strength for the crush which is what stops most people.

3. Prekink some 303 5/16" x 7" rounds even the same diamensions but in 303 hex and kink a few from 3inches to 2 1/4inches between the legs and keep on attacking these till they are all under 2inches this will build the crush.

4.When doing isos or crush work with prekinked bars or springs always try and push the hands through each other and always try and build up the time that you can do the isos for as sometimes the steel wont move for 3-4secs and alot give up before that.

5. Crushpads are great i used to use them alot when i 1st started on the stainless they help you position a crush better and you have more control over were you can place the bar in your palms.

6. Sweaty hands and stainless dont mix so chalk up the pads/wraps bars etc and really go for it as you get more advanced you can do away with the chalk just useing it for comps and certs so it gives you that little bit more when needed.

7.Mental Focus its only steel and will melt on the kink if you can move the hard bastards the stainless kink will move also keep it moveing as fast as poss and dont under estimate the kink especially the last 1/2inch this is what stops most always train to finish a bar even if its a bend for the 40-45 degree lists always try to finish those bars to under 2inches then you are working your crush as well.

8.MENTAL TOUGHNESS again this is were you reach inside and see if you have what it takes once that stainless ramps up and starts resisting how much do you want it.

Good luck i know you have it in you.

[Booyah!!!]

Nice Bends Tim