Well, Maybe A Serious Talk....

[Bob Lipinski]

Just because I am bored, and because the topic on the main board is not going well.

I know the Europeans do not like the hand size divisions. The GGC has them, and if they continue to do so, I will eventually follow suit. Going to see how the "best small hands" award goes over at my contest next year.

The Europeans don't have them, but then again they don't have many big handed events. For the GGC, the events are often skewed for the large hands.

I am not worried about our sport going the way of powerlifting. In my ideal world, you'd need at least 5 competitors/division to make it worth while.

[jad]

I'd rather just see events that don't favor the big hand vs. the handsize divisions. Grippers with parallel set, Europinch, 1" Vbar (even though I hate it), 1HDL, pick a wrist event (assuming it's not thickhandled sledge levering), and you're set. I do think the OHDL should be done with a handle or ring so some people aren't limited by back strength but that's getting off subject.

[The Mac]

Bob,

No from me - I don't even like weight classes to be honest.

[Matt Brouse]

I don't care either way. Weight classes and hand sizes mean jack because at the end of the day, there is an overall champ, be he small or large.

[mobsterone]

I'd rather just see events that don't favor the big hand vs. the handsize divisions. Grippers with parallel set, Europinch, 1" Vbar (even though I hate it), 1HDL, pick a wrist event (assuming it's not thickhandled sledge levering), and you're set. I do think the OHDL should be done with a handle or ring so some people aren't limited by back strength but that's getting off subject.

Once I patched up the burst blood vessel that popped when I read the above I realized (or hoped) you were thinking pure hand strength. But the one hand lift (not deadlift) uses a handle (and has been done with a ring) and so that is covered. Part of the reasoning even back when this lift was first used was to encourage more old school lifters and more power lifters to tale part. Hence moving away makes it less likely to attract such lifters - as it has done if you look back at old reports.

The rest of the events are almost exactly what we are doing here in the UK now.

[jad]

I'd rather just see events that don't favor the big hand vs. the handsize divisions. Grippers with parallel set, Europinch, 1" Vbar (even though I hate it), 1HDL, pick a wrist event (assuming it's not thickhandled sledge levering), and you're set. I do think the OHDL should be done with a handle or ring so some people aren't limited by back strength but that's getting off subject.

Once I patched up the burst blood vessel that popped when I read the above I realized (or hoped) you were thinking pure hand strength. But the one hand lift (not deadlift) uses a handle (and has been done with a ring) and so that is covered. Part of the reasoning even back when this lift was first used was to encourage more old school lifters and more power lifters to tale part. Hence moving away makes it less likely to attract such lifters - as it has done if you look back at old reports.

The rest of the events are almost exactly what we are doing here in the UK now.

Right...I think?? I think the one-hand lift, the one where David and Benny lifted like 700lbs or something?? should be used over the barbell one hand deadlift because it tests more pure handstrength vs back and hand.

[Bob Lipinski]

Do you think the one hand barbell DL tests back strength?

If you get up to the point where you are moving 300+ pounds, you are doing pretty damn well anyways. If you are average and doing 250 or so and your back is limiting you, I think an overall base of strength training would help your grip tremendously.

The one reason, at least in America, that thick bar events are important is that they comprimise much of what your average, non-grip strength sport guy knows about. If you want to attract new people to the sport, you might need to use these events occassionally.

[superfeemiman]

The one reason, at least in America, that thick bar events are important is that they comprimise much of what your average, non-grip strength sport guy knows about. If you want to attract new people to the sport, you might need to use these events occassionally.

Good point. For the average joe it's very unlikely when thinking handstrength he will immediately think of thickbars, even though they are probably one of the best things for it.

[jad]

Do you think the one hand barbell DL tests back strength?

If you get up to the point where you are moving 300+ pounds, you are doing pretty damn well anyways. If you are average and doing 250 or so and your back is limiting you, I think an overall base of strength training would help your grip tremendously.

The one reason, at least in America, that thick bar events are important is that they comprimise much of what your average, non-grip strength sport guy knows about. If you want to attract new people to the sport, you might need to use these events occassionally.

I think one hand barbell DL certainly tests back strength. My understanding is dl is a back exercise and the only difference is you're doing it with one hand, so while it certainly doesn't test it as much as regular deads, it definetly requires some back strength too. I did 250 or 255 at your comp and I'm nowhere near a 500lb regular dead. It was my grip that failed not my back but I'd be surprised if I had the back strength to pull over 300 even with straps and if I had to do it regular vs. straddle, there's no freaking way. If I was a competitor with a hx of back problems, I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

I think if we're trying to attract more people to the sport put in more visual events like tearing. You have to have a vice grip to tear most things so you could argue that it could be a support event.

[mobsterone]

I'd rather just see events that don't favor the big hand vs. the handsize divisions. Grippers with parallel set, Europinch, 1" Vbar (even though I hate it), 1HDL, pick a wrist event (assuming it's not thickhandled sledge levering), and you're set. I do think the OHDL should be done with a handle or ring so some people aren't limited by back strength but that's getting off subject.

Once I patched up the burst blood vessel that popped when I read the above I realized (or hoped) you were thinking pure hand strength. But the one hand lift (not deadlift) uses a handle (and has been done with a ring) and so that is covered. Part of the reasoning even back when this lift was first used was to encourage more old school lifters and more power lifters to tale part. Hence moving away makes it less likely to attract such lifters - as it has done if you look back at old reports.The rest of the events are almost exactly what we are doing here in the UK now.

Right...I think?? I think the one-hand lift, the one where David and Benny lifted like 700lbs or something?? should be used over the barbell one hand deadlift because it tests more pure handstrength vs back and hand.

Err I'm the current (using the rules we use now) world record holder with 330-kilos or 727lbs. It depends on whether or not the hand is away from or held against the body.

Do you think the one hand barbell DL tests back strength?If you get up to the point where you are moving 300+ pounds, you are doing pretty damn well anyways. If you are average and doing 250 or so and your back is limiting you, I think an overall base of strength training would help your grip tremendously.The one reason, at least in America, that thick bar events are important is that they comprimise much of what your average, non-grip strength sport guy knows about. If you want to attract new people to the sport, you might need to use these events occassionally.

I think one hand barbell DL certainly tests back strength. My understanding is dl is a back exercise and the only difference is you're doing it with one hand, so while it certainly doesn't test it as much as regular deads, it definetly requires some back strength too. I did 250 or 255 at your comp and I'm nowhere near a 500lb regular dead. It was my grip that failed not my back but I'd be surprised if I had the back strength to pull over 300 even with straps and if I had to do it regular vs. straddle, there's no freaking way. If I was a competitor with a hx of back problems, I wouldn't go anywhere near it.I think if we're trying to attract more people to the sport put in more visual events like tearing. You have to have a vice grip to tear most things so you could argue that it could be a support event.

Visual yes but card tearing is close up work and so only works for small crowds or those closest to you.

[jad]

regarding hand placement: do you mean for poundage lifted or back vs. handstrength

[Wes]

One hand DL on a barbell isn't much a test of back strength for most. I did 340 with a hook when I was getting 375 on a regular deadlift. Those extremely rare guys that are getting a good amount over 300 are all great deadlifters anyway

[odin]

This post is not directed at anyone who is already holding contests. I'm just addressing those who'd like to see changes.

I like training for feats of strength myself, maybe attending Gripmas will make me more interested in competing. I've thought about this some, but at this time my main focus is on realizing the goals I would like to achieve. I want to fully DL the Inch and lift the 50 lb. Blob by the face. Quixotic? Perhaps. Focusing on training for and achieving these difficult goals provides a wonderful form of recreation for me, thinking about hand size, body size, etc. doesn't, and you haven't and won't see me posting much in these type of threads. I decided to include those stats in my signature because I am often asked about my weight and hand size. I understand people are different and some might find hand size and related topics interesting fodder for debates; I have no problem with that.

As far as I know at this time anyone (or any group) can hold a grip contest with whatever events, hand sizes or weight classes they choose. So, if you don't like the direction the sport is going, organize your own contest the way you want and see who shows up. Would you draw more people who'd otherwise avoid competing or just drive away the best regular contestants? I don't pretend to know the answer.

Perhaps you think hanging from a chinning bar with a 100 lb. weight attached for time should be done instead of the axle deadlift. Maybe you have the patience and innovativeness to create a "fairbar" event. Would you like the Euro-pinch or table-top wrist curl? Rolling Thunder or one-hand medley? All or none of the above? It's up to you.

What type of bending do you want in your contest, if any? Do you want events and results based on overall body size and strength or would you rather have strength from the elbows down be the determining factor? Would you be comfortable holding a contest that Tommy Heslep couldn't possibly win?

Research the origins of grip strength events. Who are the people running contests now, and what is their hand/body type and training background? What direction do you think the future should take? Do you want to influence the way the sport develops or not? Most of you have more power than you realize to do this if you commit yourself to it.

Edited October 24, 2007 by odin

[Bob Lipinski]

To be honest Josh, I think the Euro one hand dl might be more of a test of back strength. Maybe not lower back, but you need a good base of strength in the traps or that weight is just not gonna go.

[mobsterone]

Deffo not lower back as you can brace with the free hand - thank goodness (for me ha ha).

[Bob Lipinski]

Like you Steve, I've got a gimped back. Halfway grateful for it, cause it is what got me into grip.

[Jedd Johnson]

Bob, the events you had at your contest in July were perfect - no need for hand size divisions there.

Our contests routinely have CC set grippers, thick handle stuff and large blobs - the only fair thing to do is to have two classes.

It really depends on the events whether hand size categories are used.

I would like to hold a contest with normal implements and attract novices sometime. To get more people into the sport. This would also allow people to more easily train for it. I'm thinking something like 2-45's two-hand pinch, double overhand/ no thumbs deadlift, parallel set grippers, 100lb plate rim hold for time, and something else. Technique and hand size won't factor in as much with these lifts. Hand strength certainly will.

[jad]

That would be a great contest Jedd! I really liked the events at your contest too, Bob.

[Bob Lipinski]

Thanks for the compliments guys.

Really though, even as part of the "small hand" brigade, I do like the axle, RT, blobs, and similar stuff. Like Jedd mentioned, when trying to get new people interested in grip, you want to include what they know. That was the main reason that the rolling thunder, axle, grippers, and IM pinch block were in my first contest- I wanted things that would appeal to my non-grip buddies who were to make up the bulk of the competition.

Jedd, that is a great idea! Add in a neat bending demo- Maybe a 60d with just a washrag plus some maxed out other stuff- on top of grippers to try, etc. and you'll get something fun, competitive, and get guys hooked.

[EricMilfeld]

I'm not a fan of hand size divisions. It dilutes the already sparse competition and only applies to a small number of events. I do think it's great to contest events like Blobs and thick bar events with their historical significance and popularity in mind, but a fair - bar system would be more... fair. For an example off the top of my head, maybe something like this would work:

- sub 7" hands use a 2" axle

- 7" to 8" hands use a 2 1/4" axle

- over 8" hands use a 2 1/2" axle

I realize these specific numbers may not be the best, and there is no readily available odd sized axles, but it's just an idea I'm throwing out there.