Bob Lipinski Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I am playing around with a system for ranking the top grip competitors in the country. It is mostly trial and error, but after a few hours I think I am getting something worth trying out. I can only get a decent list out to the top 5 or so, since there isn't enough people competing against each other right now. It isn't perfect. For 2006, I rated the best as: 1. Chad Woodall 2. Dave Morton 3. Dave Thorton 4. Anson, Scott George, Tommy Helsep, Ryan Klein 6. Jedd Johnson It seems like the order makes sense- Tommy beat Anson once, Anson beat Tommy once, and Scott beat both Anson and Tommy once. Tommy beat Dave M once, so he gets credit for that, which ultimately placed him above and the guys that beat him above Jedd. Ryan is above Jedd because he beat Dave T once, who happened to beat Jedd a few times. I don't work it like that, basically I am working it with amount of points per contest depending on how many top level competitors show up at a given contest. More top competitors at a contest means more points for winning. For example, whoever wins the BBB this year will end up as the top grip guy of 2007, just by the level of competition. It looks like things are lining up with reality. Anyone like the idea? It might make for a little more excitement, especially around big competitions. Maybe it will help get the bigger guys together more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Looks good. I'll watch with interest. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I like the idea! Perhaps it could be expanded internationally? I don't know exactly what your doing but if it's points based then would it just be alot more points and people or would it be alot more complicated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 The ELO system used primarily in Chess (although it can be used for most activities) might be something to look at. There are several other systems too that might be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Another cool idea! Eventually you could work with promoters to post how much each contest will be worth before the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 How I'd rate them would vary by the contest events - people have comparatively different strength levels on different events. It would be possible to find contests in which one persons strengths and another's relative weakness's make for pretty different results. I'd have to move Jedd up just based on competing against him (and all the others) except Ryan. A fun little exercise Bob, we'll see how it comes out over the next few contests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS27 Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Good idea Bob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN PRAYDIS Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 How I'd rate them would vary by the contest events - people have comparatively different strength levels on different events. It would be possible to find contests in which one persons strengths and another's relative weakness's make for pretty different results. I'd have to move Jedd up just based on competing against him (and all the others) except Ryan. A fun little exercise Bob, we'll see how it comes out over the next few contests. im with climber and i have never competed and may never do so but like he said each person on that list has a special strength like a super hero and i see jed is last on that list and i have never seen but one other person clean or drag an inch dumbbell up ther chest to shoulder height and press it just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alawadhi Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 It's like fire is stronger than grass because it burns it. And grass is stronger than water because it feeds on it. But water can beat fire. It goes in a cirlce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beatty Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I'm comfortable with a nice low spot, cool idea, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 Cool, glad you guys like it. Chris, it's an evolving thing. If you look at the 2006 results, Jedd got beat a few times by Dave T, Dave M, and Chad W I believe and never got in a victory against any of the best of top level guys. Now for 2007, things will be different. With the BBB so close, the results are pretty useless for now, but Jedd is #2 and Ryan is #1. Anson and Scott will likely drop out of the top spots for not competing much. The winner of the BBB will be the best of 2007, due to the level of competition. I know for example that Jedd is much stronger than this ranking indicates, but if you look at his 2006 contest results it kind of makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anson Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I like it, looks like a fun way to rank who's competing consistently and placing well. Also it will motivate some to keep improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madss Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I would most defiantly place myself under Jedd due to I have competed with him in GGC and he is much stronger in several events(anything thick, 2 hand pinch and bending) and I can only tie him in a few (grippers and v-bar). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odin Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I think it is a good idea. Of course, it is just a rough draft to get the ball rolling and will improve with time. Historically, I think it will be fun to look back at the rankings once it has been done a few years, and would be a nice way to promote contests, promotions, or even charity fundraisers. I think it would help the general public understand the sport a little better also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Wasn't meant as a criticism Bob - and I didn't catch the 2006 part. I just went by how soundly each guy thumped me when last we met. It's a fun thing to play around with for sure. I've already tried figuring out the placings at the BBB - we'll see how I do after we see who the last three guys are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anson Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Just noticed that I'm above Jedd, not the way I would have placed rankings since Jedd is stronger than me on all events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Good discussion again by Bob. I can handle being placed 6 during 2006. Very bad year. I don't understand any ranking systems of any sports in the entire planet. Someone would have to explain that all to me. What I suggest is take all the results of the recent contests. Take the finish that the competitors got. If they got first place that's one point. Second, two points, etc. Add all those up and divide by the total of contests and there is that competitors score for the rank. So in 2006, with two 3rd place finishes, I would average 3 and that would be my rank. if anybody else averages 3, the person who shifts up will be the one with most first place finishes. if no one got first, then most second place finishes. If no one got second then most 3rd place finishes. This is where competing in more contests will benefit the person, because it shows that they are constantly up at the top no matter what region they are competing in. It is tough on small handed individuals to compete against larger handed individuals when the event favors larger handed individuals. Case in point, blob loading. I think it is only fair to separate the results out and compare small handers with large handers. A way around it is to only consider events like parallel set grippers, v-bar, and adjustable events like the Euro pinch. Score the ranks, get a total and an average and compare from there. Probably will be easier using just the raw data from contests that we have right now. -Jedd- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I think it's a fun idea but there will always be people unhappy with their rankings. I look forward to seeing how they change in 08' and hearing everyone's argument as to why they or someone they like, should be ranked higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Haha, I don't take any criticism bad, just explaining myself a little. Like competitions, these rankings don't reflect who is the strongest, just who is the best competitor. My system is a little more complicated Jedd. Here it is cut and paste from what I did. A little explanation first- For the 2006 data, I had to subjectively pick who were the top competitors at that point. Also, competitors got a bonus for upsetting a top level guy- Hence Ryan Klein getting 3 points for beating Dave T at a Michigan contest. I messed up on my last point, Anson should move up a point. Also, there is some level of subjectivity to "top competitors", obviously if Phil Phister or Magnus entered a grip comp I would immediately make them a "top level" guy. Also, I would drop competitor who didn't keep a consistent competition record- If Anson does not compete this year, he would not be considered a top level guy. --------------------- If no top competitors- Winner=1 If 2=top- 1st-3 2nd-1 If 3=top 1st-12 2nd-3 3rd-1 If 4=top 1st=36 2nd=12 3rd-3 4th-1 ---------- Top level competitor= Chad, Dave M, Dave T, Tommy H, Jedd 2006 Chad-24 Tommy-3 Dave M-13 Dave T-7 Eric-1 Scott-3 Jedd-2 Ryan-3 Odd-1 Anson-4 -------------------- Top 6=Ryan, Chad, Dave M+T, Scott, Anson, Jedd 2007 Jedd-5 Eric-1 Demnocisz-1 Scott-3 Chris R-1 Chad W-3 Ryan-12 Dave T-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I don't understand the system you are using - I am not sure what the numbers mean. I am a little thick, but let me ask you if I understand your rankings for 2007. Using your system, your picks for top contenders in 2007 are: 2007 1. Ryan Klein - 12 points 2. Jedd Johnson - 5 points 3. Chad Woodall - 3 points, Scott George - 3 points 5. Eric-1, Demnocisz-1, Chris Rice -1, Dave Thornton-1. Am I correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I like the idea quite a bit. Especially if it extends downwards to the guys like me who are currently in the far below Top 10 level. Just be interesting to see where I rank. And a bit more incentive to enter a few contests. Nice job Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Yeah Jedd, you have it right. But like I wrote earlier, since 2007 isn't finished, that list doesn't make sense. It probably is only best as an end of the year type thing. Also, it will only be accurate to the top 3-5 at best, because not enough people in grip compete against each other. As the sport grows it will be easier to extend the list, but right now it just doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lone Wolf Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I like the idea quite a bit. Especially if it extends downwards to the guys like me who are currently in the far below Top 10 level. Just be interesting to see where I rank. And a bit more incentive to enter a few contests. Nice job Bob. I'm currently going for 4 contests this year and would like to see where I would stand. Would also like to see a ranking of the top 10 or 20 for some of the events Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) I like the idea quite a bit. Especially if it extends downwards to the guys like me who are currently in the far below Top 10 level. Just be interesting to see where I rank. And a bit more incentive to enter a few contests. Nice job Bob. I'm currently going for 4 contests this year and would like to see where I would stand. Would also like to see a ranking of the top 10 or 20 for some of the events Good idea on each event - that might make predicting results easier depending on what events a competition has. It's all just guess work and fun until the chalk starts flying anyway. Mikael's V-bar and Euro pinch lists already do this on those. Edited September 12, 2007 by climber511 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdfk20 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I like this idea and i hope we will have a similar ranking system, in the future here in Britain and Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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