What The ?

[lloyd80s]

Hi,

I have been working with my #2 for about 4 weeks. In that time I've closed it many times but on other occasions I've hardly managed to move the handles. Yesterday I had a really good day and managed a few no set over crushes, on one no set close I was able to really hold it shut and grind the handles . Today my hands felt pretty good so I picked up the gripper and tried another no set close, I was about an inch from closing !! I understand that rest is needed but my hands feel fine, what's going on?? I would like to hear from anybody that has had anything like this before and understand why it happens. Many thanks

[MalachiMcMullen]

Hi,

I have been working with my #2 for about 4 weeks. In that time I've closed it many times but on other occasions I've hardly managed to move the handles. Yesterday I had a really good day and managed a few no set over crushes, on one no set close I was able to really hold it shut and grind the handles . Today my hands felt pretty good so I picked up the gripper and tried another no set close, I was about an inch from closing !! I understand that rest is needed but my hands feel fine, what's going on?? I would like to hear from anybody that has had anything like this before and understand why it happens. Many thanks

CNS, central nervous system. It takes longer to recover than muscles and is often the only limiting factor. I'd say you need rest, your muscles are fine and ready, but not your brain.

[lloyd80s]

Hi,

I have been working with my #2 for about 4 weeks. In that time I've closed it many times but on other occasions I've hardly managed to move the handles. Yesterday I had a really good day and managed a few no set over crushes, on one no set close I was able to really hold it shut and grind the handles . Today my hands felt pretty good so I picked up the gripper and tried another no set close, I was about an inch from closing !! I understand that rest is needed but my hands feel fine, what's going on?? I would like to hear from anybody that has had anything like this before and understand why it happens. Many thanks

CNS, central nervous system. It takes longer to recover than muscles and is often the only limiting factor. I'd say you need rest, your muscles are fine and ready, but not your brain.

Well my brain really wants to get those handles clicking again so this seems like a weird theory. If this is the reason how can some guys close a gripper on demand?

[crobb1320]

yup,iv'e had the same thing,close the 2 a few times,2 days later can barely close the 1.5. now i only do grip once a week and it seemed to help.

[jarow]

One other thing that I can think of that could be at least part of your problem in being unable to close the #2 on some days is technique. As just a #2.5 closer I'm no expert, but I've found that with harder grippers technique (specifically gripper placement in the hand) become more and more important. I've had days where I just couldn't make the gripper stay where I wanted it to, and that takes a lot out of your power especially at the end of the close. This is especially true for TNS closes. So in addition to giving your hands a bit more time to recover, just make sure you have the gripper exactly where you want it in your hand.

[superfeemiman]

One other thing that I can think of that could be at least part of your problem in being unable to close the #2 on some days is technique. As just a #2.5 closer I'm no expert, but I've found that with harder grippers technique (specifically gripper placement in the hand) become more and more important. I've had days where I just couldn't make the gripper stay where I wanted it to, and that takes a lot out of your power especially at the end of the close. This is especially true for TNS closes. So in addition to giving your hands a bit more time to recover, just make sure you have the gripper exactly where you want it in your hand.

Very true. As for the CNS, a good way to keep it from limiting you is to give it a break by deloading. Deloading is just dropping the amount of reps or the weight of the exercise you are doing for about a week. Changing the exercise for a little bit will help a lot too.

[aquilonian]

I hate to disagree with everyone but I think its LACK OF ADRENALINE. that little thing helps you a TON. and when you use it......it takes WEEKS TO REPLENISH. not much is know about the CNS as applied to athletes and their training (notice you dont find a clear answer to Central Nervous System questions anywhere. They just say its CNS training ). lower the INTENSITY of your workouts for a week, and then try again. I'll bet Dollars to Pennies the strenght will be back.

Dont believe me? try this: keep the intensity the same un your regular "body" workouts BUT INCREASE THE TIME of the workouts. do more sets. remember keep the intensity the same so as not to use up your adrenaline, LIFT AS HEAVY AS YOU WANT, but dont get CRAZY-PSYCHED, to the point where youare yelling and bainging your head against the plates. Remain calm only if youre in a meet or comp should you "HULK-OUT-TO-THE-MAX".

Anyways, the strenght will still come back. why? it should'nt. I mean you're using the CNS much longer, and lifting HEAVY sh!t. Your WHOLE body can certainly take more out of the CNS than your hands can, so then why? It does'nt make sense. Hmmm.......maybe it wasn't your CNS AFTER ALL. ......

youre hands feel fine because the MUSCLES are recovered, but the ADRENALINE is not there anymore, so you cant close as heavy a gripper, TRY AS YOU MIGHT!

We still dont know the limits of the Central Nervous SYstem. who ever finds the "secrets" will have stepped into a new frontier of exellence. kinda when we got the electron microscope.

oh well.... just a thought

aquilonian

Edited April 10, 2007 by aquilonian

[makey98]

That was a wierd post, Aquilonian... No offense, I think capitalization makes me nervous..... I do agree with you that the whole CNS argument doesn't make sense a lot of the time.

Lloyds80s,

Hands are strange. Sometimes they feel strong, but are weak, sometimes they feel weak but once you get them going they will surprise you. I think one thing that makes sense to me is that we use our hands all the time and you may tire them out slightly without realizing it. An extra 10lbs of force at the end of a gripper close can be the difference between closing and not closing.

Also, proper nutrition/hydration/rest have all been proven to have an effect on strength and I think that the little muscles of the hands and wrist are very sensitive to a lack of one of these 3 things. One thing that I forget alot is that usually grip feats are max effort lifts. You wouldn't be able to repeat a max effort PR squat if you weren't propery fed/slept/hydrated. My advice would be to eat some healthy foods, drink a gallon of water/ get 10 hours of sleep for 3 days straight and I bet you will kill that #2... Just a thought. Good luck...

Matt

[aquilonian]

That was a wierd post, Aquilonian... No offense, I think capitalization makes me nervous..... I do agree with you that the whole CNS argument doesn't make sense a lot of the time.

Lloyds80s,

Hands are strange. Sometimes they feel strong, but are weak, sometimes they feel weak but once you get them going they will surprise you. I think one thing that makes sense to me is that we use our hands all the time and you may tire them out slightly without realizing it. An extra 10lbs of force at the end of a gripper close can be the difference between closing and not closing.

Also, proper nutrition/hydration/rest have all been proven to have an effect on strength and I think that the little muscles of the hands and wrist are very sensitive to a lack of one of these 3 things. One thing that I forget alot is that usually grip feats are max effort lifts. You wouldn't be able to repeat a max effort PR squat if you weren't propery fed/slept/hydrated. My advice would be to eat some healthy foods, drink a gallon of water/ get 10 hours of sleep for 3 days straight and I bet you will kill that #2... Just a thought. Good luck...

Matt

good advise

OK no caps then....

[CoC#3]

Good post Aquilonian, interesting points - the bouts of caps though reminds me of 'DINOSAUR TRAINING'!

[Autolupus]

Aquilonian's point is a little back-to-front. If adrenalin is the reason for your best closes, then it's an overstressed CNS that stops you utilising it's properties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephrine

[lloyd80s]

Thanks for all of your comments, it's nice to know I'm not the only one!! Oh and to make matters worse my #3 came through the post today, I opened it up and with all my might squezzzzzzed all I could.....not even parallel :o( I now have a newgoal gripper, yep the #3 and I have a feeling I won't be closing it any time soon!

[aquilonian]

Aquilonian's point is a little back-to-front. If adrenalin is the reason for your best closes, then it's an overstressed CNS that stops you utilising it's properties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephrine

yes!!! Autolopus makes a VERY important post!!! This brings rise to a very important point

an overstressed CNS will stop you from doing anything right. The brain IS the CNS. It regulates your heart and ALL ORGANS and bodily functions. EVERYTING. from A to Z. nothing makes a move without this bad boy. the slightest malfunction can spell catastrophe, specially for athletes. sience memory, knoledge, personality and everything else is governed by the brain, it is safe to say that the Brain IS YOU. So then its sensible to assume that: we shouldl not overstress ourselves/brain.

point is AVOID NEGATIVE STRESS at all costs (or as much as possible, that little bastard always gets in there once in a while). you/yourbrain will function much better. fights, feuds, grudges ect. if you are gonna be succesful at this gig you can forget bout those. notice that the best athletes are always "such nice guys". and the SERIOUS ironheads, meatheads, are always 'cool dudes" despite looking otherwise. even Gatogrip just posted about how HE felt bad about trowing someone, after the guy clearly deserved it. it is an ability we should strive for.

I mean you can also perform better if you are POSSITIVELY MOTIVATED and sicerely have a PASSION, an intese desire to exell in you workouts/sport. As opposed to a negative motivator, for example: a bear is gonna maul me if I dont finish this set. or my whole family will die if I dont make this lift.

We know the mechanics of the brain, where stuff happens in the brain. but the why's and hows. we have no idea......YET! We don't even know the limits. thats the big mystery.

This was a good thread. really enjoyed it. thanks.

oh if anyone cares to do further reading (again, notice there aint much to this article) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system

tried to keep the caps to a minimum. well...GOOD LUCK GUYS

aquilonian

[MalachiMcMullen]

Fantastic posts aquilonian!

[Cannon]

To Jarow's point, is it possible it's your form? A bad set can kill an attempt on a tough gripper no matter how fresh you are. This seems like the simplest answer to me. When I was just getting to the point where I could close the #2, I would sometimes have 1/2" misses and authoritative closes in the same workout. I hadn't learned anything about setting and form and producing consistent results. Form is less of a variable for me now.

[lloyd80s]

To Jarow's point, is it possible it's your form? A bad set can kill an attempt on a tough gripper no matter how fresh you are. This seems like the simplest answer to me. When I was just getting to the point where I could close the #2, I would sometimes have 1/2" misses and authoritative closes in the same workout. I hadn't learned anything about setting and form and producing consistent results. Form is less of a variable for me now.

I'm pretty sure that it's not my set, I've now got the hang of setting the gripper pretty well. Most of my attempts are with a no set anyway, I'll pick up the #2 with one hand a and just squeeze. Somedays it grinds shut, other days I'll only get it to parallel. It's like I just have no grip power at all on some days. It's really getting me down, just when I think I've cracked it I'll have a weak day. Today's also been a real eye opener, I got my #3 in the post and gave it a go..........NO CHANCE! I was wondering if all people find the #3 a shock when they first try it? I relly didn't think it'd be sooooooooo hard. Maybe that was very niave of me!! Many thanks for everybody giving advise, I'm new to this and feel good to have found people to talk to about these addictive grippers!!!

[gerryg]

Hi,

I have been working with my #2 for about 4 weeks. In that time I've closed it many times but on other occasions I've hardly managed to move the handles. Yesterday I had a really good day and managed a few no set over crushes, on one no set close I was able to really hold it shut and grind the handles . Today my hands felt pretty good so I picked up the gripper and tried another no set close, I was about an inch from closing !! I understand that rest is needed but my hands feel fine, what's going on?? I would like to hear from anybody that has had anything like this before and understand why it happens. Many thanks

If you want to master your coc#2 you should give this a try......

http://www.cyberpump.com/ktaprogram/

[superfeemiman]

To Jarow's point, is it possible it's your form? A bad set can kill an attempt on a tough gripper no matter how fresh you are. This seems like the simplest answer to me. When I was just getting to the point where I could close the #2, I would sometimes have 1/2" misses and authoritative closes in the same workout. I hadn't learned anything about setting and form and producing consistent results. Form is less of a variable for me now.

I'm pretty sure that it's not my set, I've now got the hang of setting the gripper pretty well. Most of my attempts are with a no set anyway, I'll pick up the #2 with one hand a and just squeeze. Somedays it grinds shut, other days I'll only get it to parallel. It's like I just have no grip power at all on some days. It's really getting me down, just when I think I've cracked it I'll have a weak day. Today's also been a real eye opener, I got my #3 in the post and gave it a go..........NO CHANCE! I was wondering if all people find the #3 a shock when they first try it? I relly didn't think it'd be sooooooooo hard. Maybe that was very niave of me!! Many thanks for everybody giving advise, I'm new to this and feel good to have found people to talk to about these addictive grippers!!!

Actually, if you no set it it's more likely that it is your set... of the no set. Table No-setting (picking it up with one hand and closing) is a lot more variable than setting.

[carusom1]

I hate to disagree with everyone but I think its LACK OF ADRENALINE. that little thing helps you a TON. and when you use it......it takes WEEKS TO REPLENISH. not much is know about the CNS as applied to athletes and their training (notice you dont find a clear answer to Central Nervous System questions anywhere. They just say its CNS training ). lower the INTENSITY of your workouts for a week, and then try again. I'll bet Dollars to Pennies the strenght will be back.

Dont believe me? try this: keep the intensity the same un your regular "body" workouts BUT INCREASE THE TIME of the workouts. do more sets. remember keep the intensity the same so as not to use up your adrenaline, LIFT AS HEAVY AS YOU WANT, but dont get CRAZY-PSYCHED, to the point where youare yelling and bainging your head against the plates. Remain calm only if youre in a meet or comp should you "HULK-OUT-TO-THE-MAX".

Anyways, the strenght will still come back. why? it should'nt. I mean you're using the CNS much longer, and lifting HEAVY sh!t. Your WHOLE body can certainly take more out of the CNS than your hands can, so then why? It does'nt make sense. Hmmm.......maybe it wasn't your CNS AFTER ALL. ......

youre hands feel fine because the MUSCLES are recovered, but the ADRENALINE is not there anymore, so you cant close as heavy a gripper, TRY AS YOU MIGHT!

We still dont know the limits of the Central Nervous SYstem. who ever finds the "secrets" will have stepped into a new frontier of exellence. kinda when we got the electron microscope.

oh well.... just a thought

aquilonian

I'm have to disagree with your ADRENALINE theory. Not saying this CNS bit is any better but...

Are sure it takes weeks to replenish epinehrine?? Where are you getting this from?

[Autolupus]

carusom1, stop tolchocking it Droogy.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Autolupus

[superfeemiman]

I hate to disagree with everyone but I think its LACK OF ADRENALINE. that little thing helps you a TON. and when you use it......it takes WEEKS TO REPLENISH. not much is know about the CNS as applied to athletes and their training (notice you dont find a clear answer to Central Nervous System questions anywhere. They just say its CNS training ). lower the INTENSITY of your workouts for a week, and then try again. I'll bet Dollars to Pennies the strenght will be back.

Dont believe me? try this: keep the intensity the same un your regular "body" workouts BUT INCREASE THE TIME of the workouts. do more sets. remember keep the intensity the same so as not to use up your adrenaline, LIFT AS HEAVY AS YOU WANT, but dont get CRAZY-PSYCHED, to the point where youare yelling and bainging your head against the plates. Remain calm only if youre in a meet or comp should you "HULK-OUT-TO-THE-MAX".

Anyways, the strenght will still come back. why? it should'nt. I mean you're using the CNS much longer, and lifting HEAVY sh!t. Your WHOLE body can certainly take more out of the CNS than your hands can, so then why? It does'nt make sense. Hmmm.......maybe it wasn't your CNS AFTER ALL. ......

youre hands feel fine because the MUSCLES are recovered, but the ADRENALINE is not there anymore, so you cant close as heavy a gripper, TRY AS YOU MIGHT!

We still dont know the limits of the Central Nervous SYstem. who ever finds the "secrets" will have stepped into a new frontier of exellence. kinda when we got the electron microscope.

oh well.... just a thought

aquilonian

I'm have to disagree with your ADRENALINE theory. Not saying this CNS bit is any better but...

Are sure it takes weeks to replenish epinehrine?? Where are you getting this from?

Yeah, I do have to agree that it's probably not adrenaline... especially if he's no setting it.

Setting really takes a lot of practice to get the right feel and make it consistent.

[aquilonian]

I'm have to disagree with your ADRENALINE theory. Not saying this CNS bit is any better but...

Are sure it takes weeks to replenish epinehrine?? Where are you getting this from?

I wasn't gonna post on this thread anymore, but the question in carusom1's post, can allow me to bring up an interesting point.

Thas was only a guess Its not a diagnosis of any sorts. I cant tell you with all certainty THIS IS IT! . I cant go show you, like almost everything in the net, take it with grain of salt. In the end you have to decide. What I can do is look for a website you can visit. but then again YOU CAN DO THAT TOO. The point I want to make is, assuming you know the basic stuff (the 101 stuff that is shown everywhere), where to turn to for more in depth information, revelant to us lifters?

The lifting world is a good place to start, mostly based on trial and error (isn't that science anyway), but also based on FEELINGS. If you want to get a more "scientific" knoledge with all the studies you can handle. LOOK INTO DISEASES. if you want to really get into adrenaline, look into the research for addisons or cushings disease (two most popular off the top of my head). if you want to look for the NEXT BIG THING in muscles, look into the research for muscular diseases. These people are well funded, and educated. they can make headway faster than you can alone. its good to take a pointer or two from them.

I dont call it epinephrine, because it may get confused with the drug. I preffer to call it adrenaline because it implies its the NATURALY secreted hormone from your adrenals. To be technical no, it does not take weeks to replenish adrenaline. I has to be secreted daily, it's what helps wake you up man (amoung a ton of other things). But yes, it takes weeks to replenish to the LEVELS needed to again be able to "HULK-OUT". I typed ADRENAL FATIGUE in a search engine to show you the symptoms. Its not real "convincing" but its what I first found, again its from the net.

Now tell me these symptoms dont look like the ones most people claim for CNS "overtraining"

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/doi.php

if you search more you will find they also cause lack of strenght, dependency of uppers like caffeine, and depress the immune system in a good way (cortisol gets involved too, anytime adrenaline does). kinda explains why Ironheads tend to get repeated bouts of COLDS. its just an overall feeling of "$h!t" isn't it?

THis just says that exercise secretes adrenaline (like we hadn't guessed that already) http://www.caresfoundation.org/exercise_cah.html

I just see people all the time in the US training balls to the wall. they take their stuff seriously and lift like madmen. I guess we like to see impressive lifts everytime (I am supr guilty of this too). I also notice we tend to train less frequently than other countries. makes sense.....if we lift like its supposed to be a punishment, instead of exercise, then we will be to punished to do it almost daily.

sorry to make you guys read so much. This is the last time, I swear

(now writting with less caps.)

aquilonian

[Autolupus]

I wouldn't use the term popular, when referring to diseases! ... and the most popular STD of the month is...

...but will go with empirical over theoretical everytime!

[Condor]

Hi,

I have been working with my #2 for about 4 weeks. In that time I've closed it many times but on other occasions I've hardly managed to move the handles. Yesterday I had a really good day and managed a few no set over crushes, on one no set close I was able to really hold it shut and grind the handles . Today my hands felt pretty good so I picked up the gripper and tried another no set close, I was about an inch from closing !! I understand that rest is needed but my hands feel fine, what's going on?? I would like to hear from anybody that has had anything like this before and understand why it happens. Many thanks

One of the possible reasons can be the sweat on your hands. Since i started using chalk my performances have been A LOT more consistent. Try to use it if you don't.

You can buy it in any climbing store. You can also find liquid chalk ( something like alchool + chalk ) if you don't want to spread white powder all around...

[carusom1]

well, still not sure where you heard that it takes that long to make epinephrine??

Knowing how it is made, that doesn't make sense to me. Epinephrine is a tyrosine (amino acid) derivitive; requires 3 enzymes to make it. What makes more sense is instead of not having enough epinephrine, the receptors are now desensitized and that takes some time to get back normal. Not the production of the hormone itself.

On a different note, from a common sense point of view; could you max on your deadlift or bench then expect to hit the same numbers the next day? All this talk of CNS and hormonal activity; what about the muscle fatigue?

Edited April 12, 2007 by carusom1