Bob Lipinski Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 This has never been addressed, and I can see it coming up. Also, token lifts- Does anyone care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Depends how clinical you want the sport to go. I would hope we keep the area we are, a mixture of powerlifting and strongman ideas. But all these thoughts are just ideas with no one to implement anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 No, because then every contest would have to have the same events if you wanted to set a record. There is already entirely too much BS associated with setting a record. The focus should be on the lift itself not all of these other hoops people have to jump through for it to be "official". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Jad, The rules we currently apply to WR's are far more relaxed than those for the vast majority of other sports. Regarding the order of events I would prefer a set order but there should be room for some flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Personally I would like the events to be set and held in a set order, at least in major champs - I think the different events concept would be best suited to challenge matches. IMO one of the weaknesses of the way Strongman has evolved is the constant chopping and changing both of events and weights used - leads to too much talk of events being suited to certain athletes (ie. allegations of WSM events being weighed towards Pudziamowski), or events being weighed towards the promoters themselves (ie. allegations made towards Glenn Ross). Further benefits would be that comps would be easier to run (theoretically at least), easier to train for, bear more relation to many accepted sports (the events in the Decathlon are not random for instance) and would help negate some of he ridiculous situations we have seen recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 (edited) No. And the only reason we have such a short list of events and hence have many 'token' lifts is we have yet to agree some more standards. Once we have that there would be a bigger list to choose from. I think we should keep the 3 we have and add 2 or more 'token' lifts to every event. The order makes no odds to me at all. In fact it would be better if they came at random as it is a truer test of strength. With regards to strongman: there is some movement towards a standard. We have, for example, an IFSA spec sized lifting 'log' at our Whey Consortium Gym as well as a Conans wheel. More than a few of the training 'camps' here now use the same guy to buy from and so there is a semblence of a standard there (he was banned last week - Tom 'Viking Power' Jones and also he is the most vocal re getting to a standard). Edited March 4, 2007 by mobsterone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Brouse Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I like the fact that in strongman the events change order and weight. I think it should be that way in grip. Certain athletes are going to be more well suited for this or that regardless. Just everyone else has to get stronger. I don't even know what a token lift is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Jad,The rules we currently apply to WR's are far more relaxed than those for the vast majority of other sports. Regarding the order of events I would prefer a set order but there should be room for some flexibility. That may be but in other sports records aren't broken at the rate they are in ours ("unofficially"). It's not like someone breaks the C&J record once every couple of months only to be told it doesn't count because it was an Italian competition and he was only lifting as a guest since he's not Italian and therefor wasn't really competing (remember when that was a hot topic) or any of the other numerous excuses we use to rationalize why a record shouldn't count. It just seems silly everytime somebody breaks the record on some lift there are all these excuses as to why it doesn't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Brouse Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Jad,The rules we currently apply to WR's are far more relaxed than those for the vast majority of other sports. Regarding the order of events I would prefer a set order but there should be room for some flexibility. That may be but in other sports records aren't broken at the rate they are in ours ("unofficially"). It's not like someone breaks the C&J record once every couple of months only to be told it doesn't count because it was an Italian competition and he was only lifting as a guest since he's not Italian and therefor wasn't really competing (remember when that was a hot topic) or any of the other numerous excuses we use to rationalize why a record shouldn't count. It just seems silly everytime somebody breaks the record on some lift there are all these excuses as to why it doesn't count. As with the development of any sport, this will change, as limits come closer. Most of the grip events are relatively new in terms of training specifically for them and competing in them. Especially when compared to the olympic lifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 One thing Josh- I think a good side effect of records only being able to be broken in bigger competitions is that it brings guys out of their garages. The name of the game is competition. Part of the farce of powerlifting is that guys are breaking "all time" records in little garage or local meets, but won't bring their best game to a serious competition because they choke, their favorite judges won't pass 1 foot high squats or the promoter won't delay the meet for their warmups and rests between attempts. If I were king, I would like to see all kinds of stuff on the local level, and a relatively standardized format on the national and international level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 No. Makes it more interesting when the events aren't always in the same order. Besides, I think the strongest and best prepared competitors will still win anyway, regardless of the order of events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubgeezer Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_Arildsson Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I'd like a set order for the standardized events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 The basic premise behind records is that we are comparing apples to apples. 300# must be 300# no matter where it sits in the world. A steel bar to bend must be the same strength for any kind of record to have meaning. A gripper must have the same closing force needed wherever it is and no matter the number on the handle – that or a standard set of grippers or some other solution must be found. Friction presents a unique problem of course but there is only so much we can do about the conditions around a friction based lift. There is only so much one can do to control humidity and other variables etc. Equipment must be standardized as far as practical. Rules must exist so that a competition in Mongolia can take place and achieve the same amount of respect that one in the US – England etc has. If someone wants to put on a contest – there must be somewhere they can go to – read and if they adhere to all the requirements – put on the meet and have the results accepted by all. Methods for consistent judging must exist with video proof if that is what is decided. Distinctions between single event lifts, lifts done in a certain order, full contests etc etc need to be ironed out. After talking grip with people I respect from different sports at the Arnold Classic this weekend – it is obvious to me that to have the respect of the other strength sports out there – we must come up with all these and perhaps more. To be honest I like it in the garages and don’t really want to see it go “mainstream” but calling something a World Record with no more controls than we have now is not going to last forever. The same scoring system etc used by all etc. Look at it this way – I can put on an Olympic Lifting contest in my garage without even telling the USAW I’m having it – we can lift on inaccurate equipment, press out the lifts, take 10 attempts and have a great time, the strongest man will win as usual, but no one is going to accept the results as meaningful as far as records go – kind of like what we do huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAN PRAYDIS Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 No. Makes it more interesting when the events aren't always in the same order. Besides, I think the strongest and best prepared competitors will still win anyway, regardless of the order of events. im with ben even though i havent competed in a contest and may never for instance take worlds strongest man all events change every contest and if one makes a bigger lift it counts for a world record and in a grip contest if you know you can set a record and that lift is last on the list dont go full steam on the other events theres always next time . to be no one and no matter where you make a world record lift if there is lots of other contestants there and it does not count like dutches lift he is the man to beat now we look with our eyes think with our mind and believe what we see . and proof is in the crediabilty of all the other contestants . and as for calabrating weights i did a test with different weights i have and i have tons of them all weights weighed all came up heaver in the total than what they were suppose to be good luck in your decision guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Brouse Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I still don't know what a token lift is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencrush Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I still don't know what a token lift is... A token lift is one which a lifter does that is ridiculously low compared to their ability. They usually do it to set a record in another lift. Like a 135 bench press and 135 squat, followed by a 700 pound deadlift. The token lift (or lifts) saves their strength for what they really came to accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Brouse Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Thanks Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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