No Big Pinch, no BIG TIME Crush?

[Bill Piche]

I see correlation with the BIG time crushes such as an Elite close, being close to the 4, high IP PDA grippers, etc.

People that immediately come to mind are Heath, Roger, Nick, David, Richard.

The question is: Do you have to have a BIG time pinch (in some fashion) to be an all-time best crusher or the TRUE elite level of 480-500 and over (my opinion this is the level).  Or, does it matter?

Thoughts and comments?

[Guest StrongerthanArne]

I would say no. I know a guy that will probably close an Elite within a years time and he is not very strong in pinch. He can just lift two 15 kg plates.

[Guest omniexist]

Hum interesting question, I would say having a great pinch would help. If nothing els it would help you set the gripper eraser.

[RiotGrip]

I'd say that it would definately help with the speed of your progress, but it isn't essential.  However that is a hard question to answer, because everyone I know of that has elite crushing strength does do some pinch work, so their thumbs are trained.  But as I've seen the very best crushers are some of the very best pinchers as well.

[Sybersnott]

This is a good question, Wanna.

I have a great crushing grip, but my pinching talents leave a lot to be desired.  And right now, I'm stuck at a level between the #3 and the BB Elite (hovering between a 420-440 IP).

[Guest RobbyTooSlobby]

I would have to say it is my opinion that working on your pinch will absolutely help your crush.  I don't think working your crush helps your pinch though.

Some of the guys with amazing crushes need to catch their thumbs up to their finger strength.

[Guest Luke Reimer]

The question is: Do you have to have a BIG time

pinch (in some fashion) to be an all-time best crusher or the

TRUE elite level of 480-500 and over...

No.

[Bill Piche]

Can someone name a person close to closing a #4 or has closed an Elite that doesn't have a BIG pinch as well?

[Guest baldy]

People that immediately come to mind are Heath, Roger, Nick, David, Richard

I assume this is what you are saying, but all these guys are very good pinchers. Also add Brookfield to this list, since he closed his #4 under "unofficial conditions".

Can someone name a person close to closing a #4 or has closed an Elite that doesn't have a BIG pinch as well?

I know there was a lot of hearsay about Mr Kinney using a crapton of weight to do negatives on a homemade TTK, but does anyone know what he pinched (a solid number, not a rumor) on plates? He might be your guy.

I know that all the truly elite pinchers (Mr Sorin, Mr Horne, Scott Clayton, Nick, and others) have all stated that all around grip training put them way ahead of the game with grippers. It seems they all mashed their heavy grippers once they learned the form (one month or less gripper work), suggesting that the strength was (for the most part) already present.

Another thing to think about would be those guys you read about in MILO (getting more and more frequent) who never trained much grip and close a #3 in short time. They probably haven't done much pinching, since they are so new to grip training.

Here is another question: Why limit the crossover effect to just pinching? Every name we have mentioned in this thread trains all around lower arm strength, posting some huge numbers in more obscure areas like plate curls and thick handle lifts (for example) in addition to being good crushers and pinchers.

[Bob Lipinski]

Working with the COC's was the first real grip work I ever did (besides partial rack deads to grip failure, which I worked on occassion for deadlift training) serious grip training. I first closed the 3 about 3 months after getting the grippers, and was certified about a year after getting them.

Right now I might be in a good position to answer this question- For the last couple months I've specialized in grip work to some degree, including pinching. As of yet, my grip is the strongest it's ever been, and my pinch has moved from about 50 to 65 (done on a 2x4). My crushing power has also improved. I am taking my first shot at a PDA 485 gripper in a couple of weeks.

One thing I am wondering if it's not just the pinch work that predicts gripper success, but the all-around dedication to grip training that people who tend to do things like pinch gripping have. Maybe it also has to do with variety, like sometimes in powerlifting or bodybuilding changing up lifts helps increase gains, maybe just working a variety (and not pinch specifically) is the key, I don't know. Guys that pinch are probably more likely to work a wide variety of grip stunts, or at least that is my guess.

Good pinch gripping is also helped by larger hands more than grippers, wouldn't you say?

[RiotGrip]

I think Bob makes a good point about overall dedication to grip training.  You can't be seriously dedicated to training grip if you neglect your thumb.  Also people probably won't close an elite unless they have a reasonably serious dedication.

Bob, as far as hand size and pinchgripping, I think hand size may only be of benefit for wide pinch gripping.  However Richard Sorin stated that his hand was 7 3/4" from wrist to the top of the middle finger.  This is a big hand, but not a huge hand, and look at his success with pinch gripping.  But, a bigger hand does allow more surface area to touch the plates when pinching, therby more fully distributing the strength.

[Bearcat 74]

My pinch isn't that good, I still can't get 45's.  I think that having a good pinch has a alot to do with it though......

[Bill Piche]

Heath,

But you can just pinch a 45lb blob like nothing.

[Guest baldy]

Heath,

But you can just pinch a 45lb blob like nothing.

That's exactly how he did it, like it was nothing. No exaggeration. Made it look easy.

Heath is also a good example for my idea about someone who trains every aspect of his lower arm. He is best known for his superhuman crushing ability (and now his blob lifting too), but he doesn't really have any noticeable weak areas in his grip. I think that there has been significant carryover from those non-crushing movements that have augmented his crush, and vice-versa (crushing work improving thick handle lifts, etc).

[Guest Jeff Roark]

I have to say something about Heath, and not because I consider him my freind. He has some super genetics for this. He is a born natural and that is the truth. ####, the guy can't do a proper deadlift and could probably pull well over 500lbs anytime he pleases. I wish I could train him on the other aspects of lifting as I think I could turn this young man into a monster. Heath will be the next man to close the #4, there is no doubt in my mind. I hope he tears Sorins Blob a new on too. Heath take care of what God has given you and use it the best way you can. I envy your natural ability my freind. I look foward to the next time we workout, hit those bottoms hard so when you come up to the house we'll take you over 400 easy. Talk to you later.

[Clayton]

Maybe it's not regular pinching, but really wide(3-4 inch) pinches that have the biggest carry-over, or realationship to crushing.  I'm decent on the grippers, and when I was training hard, could pinch pretty heavy, but only on narrow (2-3 inch) surfaces.   And at my strongest pinching, I could still barely move the handles on the #4, not even through the "sweep" range.

Heath and Richard Sorin both seem to do well, and in Heath's case I'd say better, on wider objects.  A few times when I trained with Heath we would try to "pinch" the ends of hex dumbells.  And even though my pinch was ahead of his, he kept up with, and usually beat me on the wide ends of the dumbell.

Tim (Baldy), is also good at the wide pinches.  A few months back he was lifting five 10 pound plates, something I have never been able to do.  How are you doing with the grippers Tim?

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, wider pinches are better for crushing grip.

Also, Heath may have good genetics, but he trains pretty hard too.  There were more that a few times when he had to call and wake me up to meet him at the gym.

[Guest Jeff Roark]

Scott,

Heath trains hard as heck but he still can't do the deadlift right, now can we Mr. Sexton? We are going to have to test the Heath technique when he comes up to the barn. Pat and Steve have him next so I know they are going to be after him hard.

Scott it would be cool if we all could get together and train some day. Maybe I could come down and stay with heath and he and I could come over to train with you and Tim. Lets try and work something like that out sometime this summer.

[Clayton]

Sounds like fun.  I better get on the stick, and get strong so I don't look like a whimp.

[Guest baldy]

Tim (Baldy), is also good at the wide pinches.  A few months back he was lifting five 10 pound plates, something I have never been able to do.  How are you doing with the grippers Tim?

Hey Scott. I can still nail the wide 50 pretty much when I want, but the grippers are another story. I had a couple of decent attempts on my #3 yesterday, but to be honest I really lack the motivation on grippers. So many other goals. Also, rumor has it that my hand positioning is pretty rough on heavier grippers.

BTW, Heath also pinched 5 of my 10 lb plates when he was here a couple of weeks ago. This was before the blob picture, if I remember correctly.

Sounds like fun.  I better get on the stick, and get strong so I don't look like a whimp.

It does sound like a good idea. However, I don't see you looking like a wimp even if you didn't train at all between now and then. Heath isn't the only one blessed with God given ability.

Regarding your comment about wide pinching having the best carryover, in MOHS (I don't know the page, my copy is still out with a friend) Brookfield said that his overall grip strength was at its highest when he focused on wide pinches. Maybe great minds think alike.

[Bearcat 74]

You guys make me sound like a freak or something.  Yes my dl form sucks, but it works, somewhat.    As far as the natural ability goes, no one I've seen holds a candle to Clayton.  I mean no one.  He has the ability to do anything he wants to in the grip world.  He's already done things that have been done by very very few, who knows what possible in the next 20 years.  

Guys, the 4 of us need to find a center point and train.  I have some keys to a weightroom now that is nice.  10 racks, fully loaded and all the trimmings.

[Guest Jeff Roark]

Hey wild "coyote" man!!! I tried to call you the last 2 nights. Is the gym one of the perks with the coaching job? Heath you name it and I'll do my part to get there! Scott, if Heath is calling you the freak I am going to be amazed watching you in action. heath I have an entire week off in July from the 8th to the 14th. Lets all get together then if it can be arranged. Scott, Baldy, Heath when do you have time?

[Sybersnott]

Hey!!!  The next time all you guys get together.... someone get some pics taken!!  Thanks.