Two Handed V-bar

[Scott Styles]

I've been training with a 2 Handed Vbar setup for several weeks now, and I really like it. It addresses the biggest concern I have with v-bar, which is that the uneven loading it places on the spine and shoulder could cause serious injury. I thought you guys might be interested in pics of the setup:

http://www.gripfaq.com/gb/C511TwoHandVbar.jpg - The impliments

http://www.gripfaq.com/gb/C511TwoHandVbarStart.jpg - The lift begins like a partial lockout

http://www.gripfaq.com/gb/C511TwoHandVbarFinish.jpg - The lift ends with the bar just off the ground

http://www.gripfaq.com/gb/C511TwoHandVbarSetHook.jpg - Push down to lock the v-bars in place to set the hand

http://www.gripfaq.com/gb/C511TwoHandVbarLiftHook.jpg - The hook allows for play to comfortably execute the lift

Climber511 built these for me, and he did an excellent job. He took my initial design and turned it into something far more effective than I ever would have created. Thanks Chris!

[Jeff Parker]

very interesting idea Scott. It looks like it would be a much safer lift that way, and also an interesting variation of the traditional v-bar.

I actually had similar thoughts about sledge levering. I kept hurting my wrists from heavy levering so i made a 2 handed lever contraption. It takes out the wobble factor, which was the main cause for my wrist injuries. Its not exactly the same as a regualr sledge lift, but i have trained with it for around 4 months now and have not had a single wrist injury.

[Teemu I]

Safety beeing important and all, but the thing is that you are more likely to make progress faster with two handed lifts for neurological reasons anyway (simplifying things to a one sentence), so good thinking both of you!

[Teemu I]

Nice job with that equipment, Climber511.

[Jonathan McMillan]

Nice training idea -the equipment is sweet looking!!!

That being said because you are using two points of force to lift the bar does it still behave as a one handed v-bar. From my limited experience with the v-bar half the battle is fighting the rotational forces. Just can't see that happening with your setup?

Jon@han

[Scott Styles]

Jeff,

Sounds like a good idea on the 2 handed wrist setup. Climber511 made me a modified levering bar that looks like a loadable sledge with a hilt to accomodate some of the joint problems I was experiencing training overhead levers. It appears to be working very well, I'll post pics at some point.

Jonathan,

You will not experience the rotational forces with this setup. Practice is still needed on a one handed v-bar to get the technique down. I've been doing a few pulls on the one handed bar every other week or so. I'm not very good at it, but I hope to see it go up. The hooks and length of the v-bars do allow enough play to let your wrist to move into a comfortable position after setting the grip.

The primary purpose of this setup is to let me safely perform the volume of work that is needed to train the vertical supporting grip, without exposing my back or shoulders to risk. Volume work on the one handed v-bar makes my shoulders hurt and my back tired. I think the rotation is what bothers my shoulders, the uneven loading is what bothers my back.

Outside of safety, I've experienced some other advantages. Training both hands at once is much faster. If you want to do 8-12 attempts, that's a time saver. Also, for some reason, the skin on my hands doesn't burn much while training the lift. I assume it is the lack of bar rotation that is saving my skin. It could also be that since I'm lifting much more weight, my body turns off the pain. My skin does seem to still be getting tougher. The pain I get when doing the one handed lift has decreased.

With the limited number of workouts I've had on the 2 handed setup, my PR has gone from 140lbs to 150lbs. It's not that I wasn't trying to train the one handed v-bar previously, either. I had a rather frustrating effort trying to train on it and went nowhere painfully. I finally decided the lift was a feat of extreme pain tolerance and training vertical supporting grip was dumb. Doing the exercise two handed has changed my perspective. I now like it.

[madss]

Scott and Chris nice job to both of you! way to keep things evolving. looks much safer for the body. does it still want to tear your palm off or is that just a side effect for the single bar twist.

[Scott Styles]

It still pulls on the skin, but not as much. The change is enough to make the lift go from painful to simply challenging.

[Bob Lipinski]

Damn, that is cool Scott!

Definitely an event for a future Michigan grip contest.

Good job Chris!

[Mikael Siversson]

I think judging would be very difficult as you can pin the fingers against the leg. Not so sure that this would be easier on the back if you have to pull 300k or more.

[Scott Styles]

It would definitely be much harder on the back for tall guys. With 45lb plates, I've got like a 2" range of motion. Get someone who is 6' plus on this, they are going to be in a much less advantageous position at the start.

It bet someone could work with Climber511 to continue improving the concept for a conest setup. We stopped relatively early in the development cycle in order to cap costs. Having used it for awhile, three things that I can think of are:

1. Adding a second prong to the bottom, to shorten the learning curve for setting each hand.

2. It could make sense to use a thicker steel for the hooks. The expected load that these were planned for is 200lbs per hand. I don't know what the actual limit of the current setup I have is. I've still get 50lbs to go per hand before I worry about it.

3. Either making the length adjustable, or provide several lengths of impliment to accomodate various heights. A bar that is just X inches longer won't work, because then short guys could brace their forearms against the bar. I'd guess several lengths would be affordable.

I'm not sure how easy/hard it would be to pin the hands against the thighs for more weight. It never occurred to me to try. I don't know if it'd be a real concern for a non-standardized event.

[danegarreau]

That is a pretty nifty idea.

[climber511]

It's a training tool that was built to address Scott's particular desires. I don't think Scott ever intended it to be anything more than that. With a different set of concerns, a different design would no doubt have been made up. I've often thought about the design process that went into some of the things we use in grip - V-Bar as an example - who thought it up and how their thought process worked? Was this the first size they tried or were several sizes tried before deciding this one offered the best overall challenge? What brought the idea to mind in the first place - a broken piece of something else - a random thought - what?

Some things were no doubt the result of trying to solve a particular problem - the loadable sledge concept for one. Normal jumps in sledge hammer weights are pretty big so an adjustable set up solves that problem. But there have been more than one solution to the problem - I find it interesting how the whole process is handled by different people. The problems with heavy wrist curls have resulted in the Formulator and the Pegasus designs - the same and yet very different solutions. And the similiar homemade designs vary all over the place trying to solve the same problems. I would guess the first Formulator was probably built in someones garage, went thru a few modifications etc, and didn't just "pop" out in it's final configuration. It's problem solving at the amateur and professional levels - just kind of interesting to me is all.

I think it's fun and challenging to take an idea for something and bring it to a final workable solution within the confins of cost etc. I have no doubt that someone else would have come up with a different solution to the same problem that might have worked better or worse - solving some parts better and some parts maybe not so well. Most of us don't have engineering backgounds etc so we pretty much fly by the seat of our pants on these things. I find it pretty cool all the things people come up with.

[BigPaulFromCityHall]

great idea scott-

i like the fact that is attached to an olympic bar----

--looks great--

[AP]

The handles wouldn't need to be different lengths for different competitors, you'd just need to put the bar in a power rack. You could just raise up the pins for the taller lifters. Might have to have different flights based on height (unless you had some kind of hydrolic power rack) but I think that would be ok. 750+ would ride with that kind of setup!

[Jedd Johnson]

Great idea Scott.

-Jedd-

[jad]

I don't know how much carry-over it will have to Vbar but it looks like it would be a lot fun to train with. Fantastic idea Scott, very original

[GetAGrip87]

Very nice!

[Tom of Iowa2]

I don't know how much carry-over it will have to Vbar but it looks like it would be a lot fun to train with. Fantastic idea Scott, very original

He could have invented a new event! ...Very visual set up.

Edited June 7, 2006 by Tom of Iowa2