Lgc Vs Fbbc Vbars

[Mikael Siversson]

Had my first workout with a new, unseasoned FBBC vbar.

I started by doing my regular workout with the LGC vbar, finishing with a heavy 151.25k lift (> 73mm lifting height) with my right hand. Missed 152.5k. I am on a diet at the moment so I don't have the strength I had leading up to the Australian championship in February.

Anyway after this (and with a pretty torn up finger) I pulled out the brand new FBBC vbar, kindly donated by Greg and John Beatty.

64k x 3

104k x1

124k x1

144k x1

154k x1

164k x1

169k miss

If I had tried the FBBC vbar straight after my 167.5k lift in the Oz championship I would probably have pulled around 180k. I had a similar experience when I first tried the original LGC vbar. I pulled 135k straight away (had never seen a vbar before other than on photographs). It took me several weeks to work my way up to that weight again. Bottom line is that a brand new vbar should not be allowed in a grip comp. It should be well seasoned allowing a layer of chalk to build up.

I will continue to test the FBBC vbar straight after my regular LGC vbar workouts.

By comparison the LGC vbar felt like an instrument of torture. It will be interesting to see how the FBBC vbar feels after some seasoning, in particular if it becomes a bit harder to lift with like a LGC vbar when the chalk layer is just starting to build up. The slightly larger diameter of the FBBC may have contributed to the far less painful experience of lifting with it compared to the seasoned LGC vbar. It was also easier to pull the FBBC vbar higher up.

[bencrush]

Thanks a lot for posting this report Mikael. Very good lifts man! Are you trying to lose weight? I thought you were already pretty lean but still muscular. Trying to be a jockey?

You could always try for the first double bodyweight vbar lift. Or have you or someone else already done that?

[OldGuy]

Not much data to be gathered from comparing only one FB bar to only one LGC bar.

[Hubgeezer]

My own experience with Fat Bastard's bar was the opposite.

Brand new, I could not do 94k. It took weeks of seasoning before it felt comfortable. However, the implement was brand new to me. I think the increase to 139k for me is equal parts training, seasoning, and technique.

However, if Mikael's experience is the norm, it appears that he may be getting a free gripper shortly after the next GGC. Something to do with a Vbar wager with someone on the Board...

Hubgeezer

[Mikael Siversson]

Not much data to be gathered from comparing only one FB bar to only one LGC bar.

Oldguy,

I have now tried a total of four vbars, three LGC replicas (well one was actually the original) and one FBBC vbar. Two of the LGC vbars were also tested brand new like the FBBC one. Brand new the two LGC vbars felt much the same from memory and not only a little bit different from the FBBC vbar but a lot different in the unseasoned state.

This is not much of a surprise as we are dealing with two different types of steel. In theory at least, the difference between the FBBC vbar and the LGC vbars should decrease with seasoning. As I said I will keep you all updated.

I would like to point out that the FBBC vbars are very well made and look really nice. The slightly larger diameter would make them somewhat less painful to lift with even after seasoning. It will be interesting to share notes with David Thornton who also have both types.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Mikael Siversson

[jad]

Isn't seasoning just chalk buildup? How does less chalk give you an advantage? I thought everyone wanted to chalk it so it wouldn't be slippery?? Is there a rule in place that would prevent a competitor from wiping all the chalk off, thus de-seasoning it, before an attempt? Interesting report, thanks Mikael.

[Mikael Siversson]

Isn't seasoning just chalk buildup? How does less chalk give you an advantage? I thought everyone wanted to chalk it so it wouldn't be slippery?? Is there a rule in place that would prevent a competitor from wiping all the chalk off, thus de-seasoning it, before an attempt? Interesting report, thanks Mikael.

Well I can only speak from my experience with the original LGC vbar. The advantage of improved grip on the brand new LGC vbar only lasted the very first workout. Between the first and second workout the interaction between the steel surface and chalk altered the surface characteristics of the vbar. So there was a sharp initial drop in performance with this vbar followed by a slow buildup of chalk accompanied by an improvement of friction. I remember Clay Edgin being surprised at lifting almost 160k with a brand new unseasoned LGC vbar.

Wiping the chalk off a seasoned vbar will only make it slippery.

[Mikael Siversson]

Thanks a lot for posting this report Mikael. Very good lifts man! Are you trying to lose weight? I thought you were already pretty lean but still muscular. Trying to be a jockey?

You could always try for the first double bodyweight vbar lift. Or have you or someone else already done that?

I was 85k at the Oz championship when I pulled 167.8k which is very close to double body weight. I think I was around 83k when I pulled 165k in training, again very close to double bodyweight.

[bencrush]

I was 85k at the Oz championship when I pulled 167.8k which is very close to double body weight. I think I was around 83k when I pulled 165k in training, again very close to double bodyweight.

Great stuff! I figured you were very close or had actually already achieved the 2Xvbar in training.

[Mikael Siversson]

Not much data to be gathered from comparing only one FB bar to only one LGC bar.

Oldguy,

I have now tried a total of four vbars, three LGC replicas (well one was actually the original) and one FBBC vbar.

Actually more like six but two of them were home made.

[gripmaniac]

Bottom line is that a brand new vbar should not be allowed in a grip comp. It should be well seasoned allowing a layer of chalk to build up.

Mikael,

Why???? Are you saying this in (purely) terms of the possibility of records setting? I'm NOT trying to start an argument - just an honest question

In my experience, yeah - a brand new Vbar (regardless of diameter) is a gift from above. Significant weights can be lifted!

Dave

[Mikael Siversson]

Bottom line is that a brand new vbar should not be allowed in a grip comp. It should be well seasoned allowing a layer of chalk to build up.

Mikael,

Why???? Are you saying this in (purely) terms of the possibility of records setting? I'm NOT trying to start an argument - just an honest question

In my experience, yeah - a brand new Vbar (regardless of diameter) is a gift from above. Significant weights can be lifted!

Dave

Using a brand new, unseasoned vbar would be highly unsuitable for competitions as well as for records setting. In really big competitions with many competitors I can easily imagine the characteristics of the gripping surface changing dramatically as the competition progresses.

[gripmaniac]

In really big competitions with many competitors I can easily imagine the characteristics of the gripping surface changing dramatically as the competition progresses.

Ok, that's understandable - but still, if all the competitors were aware of the "newness" wouldn't that be relatively fair to all on the day? Cleaning of the surface before your attempt would largely negate the affects of a changing surface (IMHO).

Personally, I know such knowledge (either beforehand or on the day) would influence my starting weight & subsequent attempts.

Dave

[Mikael Siversson]

Results should be repeatable. In other words a competitor should be able to attempt the same vbar on another day and, with the same strength, be able to lift the same weight without having to buy a new vbar everytime.

Moreover, competitors should be able to use an implement in training that is as close as possible to the competition device. Not only on day one but also after years of training with the equipment.

After seasoning a vbar feels different compared to an unseasoned one.

Basically it is impractical to allow an unseasoned vbar for competitions and it provides people with particular skin texture with an unfair advantage. A bit like Vince and his pinch apparatus.

Some like myself seem to benefit greatly from the unseasoned state whereas it appears to be the opposite for others. Best to use a seasoned one which even things out when it comes to skin texture etc.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Mikael Siversson

[Mikael Siversson]

Cleaning of the surface before your attempt would largely negate the affects of a changing surface (IMHO).

At a certain point cleaning the surface will make the vbar more slippery rather than less slippery. Arne and I once decided that it was time to give our LGC vbar a bit of a clean up. It took several weeks for the vbar to return to its old self. The cleaning made it very slippery.

You are sounding more and more like Vince.

[dthor]

I have had mixed results comparing my LGC and my FBBC v-bars.

The 2nd. time I tried my LGC v-bar, I was unable to duplicate the max. lifts with my FBBC v-bar. Today I started out with the FBBC v-bar, and was unable to duplicate the max. lifts with the LGC v-bar. This would fall in line with what Mikael was saying earlier about seasoning. The LGC bar is not seasoned yet, only the 4th workout with it, with today being only a few pulls. The LGC bar is not holding chalk very well yet.

After the LGC bar is seasoned properly, meaningful comparisons will be easier to make. At this time if I compared my LGC v-bar to the Diesel Crew's LGC v-bar, mine would be much harder.

Edited May 14, 2006 by David Thornton

[John Beatty]

Very excited to see the results down the road when these bars are seasoned completely. How about a 4 way comp sometime, LGC R & L, FBBC R & L, combined 4 lift total - a new event for Vbar! Or one lift each type of bar.

[climber511]

Mikael - there seems to be some kind of a reaction that occurs with the chalk and steel - it's not rust - at least in it's normal look. Do you know what is actually occuring here?

[Mikael Siversson]

Mikael - there seems to be some kind of a reaction that occurs with the chalk and steel - it's not rust - at least in it's normal look. Do you know what is actually occuring here?

To some extent I think that the very smooth surface of an unseasoned FBBC vbar enables a certain suction effect. Regarding the interaction between the chalk and the steel I am not sure. It could be very complex involving acids (from degraded human fat from the hands), moisture, steel and the chalk of course.

John, would it be possible for you to post specific details on the steel used to make the FBBC vbars. This is essential if we want records to survive our lifetime and be repeatable in the distant future.

I would like to see one standard for competition (i.e., the LGC vbar) but there is a certain slackness within the production line so to speak. The problem with two separate records, one for the LGC vbar and another for the FBBC vbar is of course that it waters down the record a bit.

One alternative would be for John to simply import the steel tube from Sweden and then make LGC vbar replicas for competition (obviously these would then cost a bit more) and FBBC vbars for training. It is an unescapeable fact that the LGC vbar is the original (once David Horne and I decided on a standard).

In the above discussion I am assuming that there is a significant difference between a LGC and a FBBC vbar in the seasoned state. This remains to be determined.

[gamidon]

Mikael I look forward to reading more of your experiences on this. Interesting thing about the new bar being easier, sounds like David T found that as well.

Greg

[Bob Lipinski]

Yes Mikael, that is a point I wanted to make- Only the fully seasoned bars should be compared, because that is the way they will be used in comps.

Hopefully John could make the LGC bars to proper specs. That would be cool.

[gripmaniac]

You are sounding more and more like Vince.

Actually, I wasn't talking about making the bar spotlessly clean but rather brushing the chalk build up off. I'm sure someone here once mentioned a competitor doing this in a comp (because they favoured less chalk on the bar than the others).

This of course opens up a can of worms - should competitors be allowed to remove (or add?) chalk on the bar prior to an attempt?

I actually tried brushing off a chalk buildup during training last night and it made a (positive) difference. . . .but I suspect this wouldn't always be the case

Dave

[Mikael Siversson]

Actually, I wasn't talking about making the bar spotlessly clean but rather brushing the chalk build up off. I'm sure someone here once mentioned a competitor doing this in a comp (because they favoured less chalk on the bar than the others).

This of course opens up a can of worms - should competitors be allowed to remove (or add?) chalk on the bar prior to an attempt?

Adding certainly, as chalk would be added anyway everytime someone dips their hands into the chalk bucket. Gently removing excessive, loose chalk added by the previous lifter should also be allowed. I think common sence must prevail here. Any excessive alteration of the lifting equipment during a competition should not be allowed. I would recommend that competitors aiming to add or remove chalk during the competition should seek approval from their fellow competitors. How does that sound?

I actually tried brushing off a chalk buildup during training last night and it made a (positive) difference. . . .but I suspect this wouldn't always be the case

Dave

[Mikael Siversson]

I will start a vbar workout log in the workout report section where I compare the LGC and FBBC vbars.