Sledge Lever Records Thread

[climber511]

I actually just did some with an 8lb sledge from the bottom for the first time today, funny that I saw this thread My elbows bend a little bit though, I don't know if that's bad or not though.

Do those look legit?

My idea on "from the bottom" when I read this was that you did a Slim style start with the sledge starting on the ground. Is that a "legit lever". Depends - it wouldn't be in a competition but as a training left - I'd say it's OK. Lock your elbow.

[Jedd Johnson]

I've been asked to look at this a little further by Telegraph Key. There seems to be little interest at this time, but that could change down the line.

I guess we need to figure out the rules. I will go ahead and start this conversation going. Here's how I see it.

Handle Length

There has to be a minimum length from the base of the handle to the end of the handle touching the head of the hammer. Perhaps pick a round number, like 30 inches. I think i read earlier on that 31 inches is the standard. if that is so, then we can use that. If your handle is shorter than the standard we decide on, then you are SOL. If it's longer than that, so be it.

Proof

Video is the way to go. The video has to get in close to show the grip on the handle, so that it is plain that the dude is not cheating and leaving a 1/4 inch out of his hand. Then the video must widen out showing the entire range of motion from vertical, down to the ear level, and back up.

Grip Positioning

Again video must show that the handle is all the way in the hand.

Strictness

Hammer starts straight up.

Hammer is lowered to top-of-head level.

Hammer is brought back to vertical with no use of the head or neck, only wrist strength. Apparatus can't shift to allow for momentum, etc.

The only way to maintain strict levering is to use some sort of structure to rest the arm on. This could include a squat bar, smith machine, yoke, or something similar, as long as it is sturdy.

The shoulder (posterior deltoid) area must stay in contact with the apparatus.

Believe me, I've judged levering before and it is a pain in the ass. There are tons of variables, many of which I did not realize, until I saw them in action. But I guess you can't call something that hasn'tbeen established, so let's decide all this ahead of time.

Divisions

8, 10, 12, 16 and 20 pound hammers are plentiful. Not sure on other sizes. My guess is that most people won't need a 20 something hammer when levering it on an apparatus.

Judging

It can be like the Mash Monster. The athlete shoots the video and posts it himself then contacts me via email (jedd.diesel@gmail.com). I will contact two other judges. The way judges will qualify can be determined later. 2 out of 3 lights and you get it.

Anything else that needs to be covered? Let me know what you think on this, everybody. Response to this thread from here on will give a good indication of interest, and whether I will make the record thread for levering.

-Jedd-

[jad]

Then the video must widen out showing the entire range of motion from vertical, down to the ear level, and back up.

Hammer is lowered to top-of-head level

Not to nitpick but does it need to be levered to the ear or the top of the head?

Thanks,

Josh

[nickr104]

I would say to the head would work fine since that's how it is normaly done.

[climber511]

I think the biggest reason nobody seemed too interested is because of the lack of standards - if we can agree on those - I think it would be a fun thing to have available and good training for contests as well. For contests - I like the setup used in North Carolina but that isn't practical for personal use. Jedd's ideas seem reasonable to me.

[TelegraphKey]

I've been asked to look at this a little further by Telegraph Key. There seems to be little interest at this time, but that could change down the line.

I guess we need to figure out the rules. I will go ahead and start this conversation going. Here's how I see it.

Handle Length

There has to be a minimum length from the base of the handle to the end of the handle touching the head of the hammer. Perhaps pick a round number, like 30 inches. I think i read earlier on that 31 inches is the standard. if that is so, then we can use that. If your handle is shorter than the standard we decide on, then you are SOL. If it's longer than that, so be it.

Proof

Video is the way to go. The video has to get in close to show the grip on the handle, so that it is plain that the dude is not cheating and leaving a 1/4 inch out of his hand. Then the video must widen out showing the entire range of motion from vertical, down to the ear level, and back up.

Grip Positioning

Again video must show that the handle is all the way in the hand.

Strictness

Hammer starts straight up.

Hammer is lowered to top-of-head level.

Hammer is brought back to vertical with no use of the head or neck, only wrist strength. Apparatus can't shift to allow for momentum, etc.

The only way to maintain strict levering is to use some sort of structure to rest the arm on. This could include a squat bar, smith machine, yoke, or something similar, as long as it is sturdy.

The shoulder (posterior deltoid) area must stay in contact with the apparatus.

Believe me, I've judged levering before and it is a pain in the ass. There are tons of variables, many of which I did not realize, until I saw them in action. But I guess you can't call something that hasn'tbeen established, so let's decide all this ahead of time.

Divisions

8, 10, 12, 16 and 20 pound hammers are plentiful. Not sure on other sizes. My guess is that most people won't need a 20 something hammer when levering it on an apparatus.

Judging

It can be like the Mash Monster. The athlete shoots the video and posts it himself then contacts me via email (jedd.diesel@gmail.com). I will contact two other judges. The way judges will qualify can be determined later. 2 out of 3 lights and you get it.

Anything else that needs to be covered? Let me know what you think on this, everybody. Response to this thread from here on will give a good indication of interest, and whether I will make the record thread for levering.

-Jedd-

Thanks for the effort & 2nd chance you've given this, Jedd.

I think those are perfect rules to go by.

I don't think I can get in a video of myself doing this within a week (no digital camera), but I'll see what I can do.

If anyone else (such as Alex up above) cares to send in a video of themselves doing a Sledge according to the rules Jedd detailed here, PLEASE LINK THEM TO THIS THREAD!!!!

I know Alex & Bob Lipinski are 2 guys interested in this. I hope you will make some videos of your Sledging & link them to this thread.

Thanks.

[Wes]

I'd be interested in this if it ever came around.

[unseenbeat]

Handle Length

There has to be a minimum length from the base of the handle to the end of the handle touching the head of the hammer. Perhaps pick a round number, like 30 inches. I think i read earlier on that 31 inches is the standard. if that is so, then we can use that. If your handle is shorter than the standard we decide on, then you are SOL. If it's longer than that, so be it.

If we had a longer handle, would we tape the base where a 31-inch handle would be held? All my hammers are 36-inch handles, this would be the solution I'd assume. Also, how do we evince that the hammer weighs what we say it weighs? Would we weigh it on a scale beforehand?

[climber511]

Here's the measurements of my sledge hammers - as you can see, they vary quite a bit. They were purchased at different times at different stores but I imagine they are typical for sledges bought here in the United States.

Overall Handle

8# 35 1/2" 33"

10# 35" 32 1/2"

12# 36" 33"

16# 35 3/4" 32 5/8"

None of them have a 31" handle - for those of you who understand torque measurements etc - would it be more consistant to use an overall length to account for the head size differences or just go with handle length. This is part of the problem when using implements that are non standardized and one of the reasons it's such a hard event to measure - not even counting the kilogram issue for those members who use that system.

Edited June 8, 2006 by climber511

[jad]

I like the idea of a minimum 31" length just for the simple reason this event is already going to be a nightmare to judge. Any efforts to simply it are probably a good thing. If your hammers have a longer handle, see if you can borrow someone's "easy"(31") sledge or just get a little a stronger. You could even put the handle length in your heading to reinforce that you did "x" hammer with a 34" handle even though you only had to do a 31". Maybe even put an asterist by the names of those that did it on a longer handle?

[El Crab Hands]

I might be able to get a vid of me doing my 10lber soon...but yeah, I'd be interested...

[Bob Lipinski]

I like Jedd's rules, just go with 31 inches shaft, not counting the head. Chris is right, all my hammers are different.

Or, go the full handle. I'm not in the mood to argue, just to get this done. Should be fun.

[unseenbeat]

I like Jedd's rules, just go with 31 inches shaft, not counting the head. Chris is right, all my hammers are different.

Or, go the full handle. I'm not in the mood to argue, just to get this done. Should be fun.

I still say tape the handle at the 31" mark.

[climber511]

Does anyone have a sledge with a 31" handle - I just measured the neighbors - about like mine. That's 6 now and none are even close to 31" - where did that number come from? I also measured the extra handle I have - it's not 31 either ?????????

[Scott Styles]

My 6lb and 8lb sledges both measure 33" from the bottom of the head to the end of the handle.

[jad]

all of mine are 31.5" to 32" (8,12,16,20) except for my 18lb mallet which is 28 to 28.5.

[TelegraphKey]

Handle Length

There has to be a minimum length from the base of the handle to the end of the handle touching the head of the hammer. Perhaps pick a round number, like 30 inches. I think i read earlier on that 31 inches is the standard. if that is so, then we can use that. If your handle is shorter than the standard we decide on, then you are SOL. If it's longer than that, so be it.

If we had a longer handle, would we tape the base where a 31-inch handle would be held? All my hammers are 36-inch handles, this would be the solution I'd assume. Also, how do we evince that the hammer weighs what we say it weighs? Would we weigh it on a scale beforehand?

I bought my 2nd sledge today, a 10 lb (the only other one available was 16 and I can't do that yet, but the 10 is definitely do-able).

The 8 lb & 10 lb I currently own are both the same brand, with some kind of plastic shatterproof handle. The handles on each are 30-1/2" to 30-3/4" -- not quite 31". There seems to be some variability among levers so IMO 30" ought to be the minimum.

The hammers I have actually have "8 lb" and "10 lb" stamped onto the underside of the head (also have stickers saying "8" & "10" on the sides of the handles too).

In a few days I'm going to do all I can to get a video. Here's what I hope to do in the video:

1) Like the CoC certs, we'll start with a close-up view of the underside of the head, where it's stamped "8 lb" or "10 lb" etc. (On mine, I'll also scan down to the sticker that says the weight, too).

EDIT: Also, I will use a tape measure to show exactly how long the handle is.

2) Then, the camera will pull back & I'll lean my side against something, I guess the porch, so my shoulder, arm, elbow & forearm are all touching the level stabilizer (porch). I guess the camera should show this touching from in front or behind me.

3) Then the camera pulls to the side to show me levering the hammer to my head then back up.

Also, if I can do the weight, I think I'll tape a 2-1/2 lb plate to the TOP of the head & go for either 10-1/2 or 12-1/2 lbs. In fact, I don't see why you couldn't tape plates on the tops of sledge heads to demonstrate greater strength. (???)

As I said, I'm not sure if I can get this done within a few days but this is what I'll try to do. I think it's within the spirit & guidelines Jedd wrote above.

If anyone else wants to post vids like this, PLEASE DO!

Edit: I didn't really answer unseenbeat's question. I think taping a longer handle at exactly 31" or 30" should solve it. Also, demonstrate with a tape measure in the video how long the handle is.

Also, if the weight isn't stamped on the head, I think a scale (visibly cleared to zero) should be used in the video showing the weight. The weight should be more than the goal weight, e.g. 8 lb sledge should actually weigh more than 8 lb since the head is 8 lb (I think).

Edited June 9, 2006 by TelegraphKey

[Wes]

My 6lb and 8lb sledges both measure 33" from the bottom of the head to the end of the handle.

ditto, mine are 33'' as well.

[unseenbeat]

ditto, mine are 33'' as well.

In my experience, average handle length is 36", so 33" is what mine measure as well. However, my 16# head is about an inch farther down the shaft for example.

I think 31" was considered average handle length only b/c that's how long Slim's hammer was.

I agree with TelegraphKey, the base of a strip of tape should be at the 30" mark, and the base of your hand would also go there.

[Jedd Johnson]

I am sorry for not taking more active a role in this discussion - I guess I did not see it come up in the "New Posts" search.

Not to nitpick but does it need to be levered to the ear or the top of the head?

Josh. Head would be best, don't you think? Not sure why I wrote two different things.

Anybody else think of any other rules to add?

-Jedd-

[gripuru]

I think that leverage records of gripboard members should be post.

I dont know if the feat should be done as Slim perform his feat starting from the floor or just by strict lever to the nose and back.

In my opinion gripboard members should only send the video and then Jedd or the people who are responsable have to say if the lift is done correctly or not. In the video the measurements of the sledge and the weight sould also be included.

Best wishes

Pablo

[jad]

I am sorry for not taking more active a role in this discussion - I guess I did not see it come up in the "New Posts" search.

Not to nitpick but does it need to be levered to the ear or the top of the head?

Josh. Head would be best, don't you think? Not sure why I wrote two different things.

Anybody else think of any other rules to add?

-Jedd-

To the head for sure...to the ear is a whole new ballgame.

[Bob Lipinski]

I'll put up a video of a 20 tomorrow. Took 21.5 to ear level, but my arm came up off my platform.

[TelegraphKey]

Kick ass! Let's do this.

I would like to be clear on arm position. It seems like arm parallel to floor is the consensus choice. The arm rests on something to keep the lever strict, and when the hammer touches the head, the sledge isn't parallel, but the arm is. That seems to be the way everybody does it.

One of these days I'm going to test my max with a real sledge (I have a Slammer from FBBC on the way, won't really count, but will be close) (So far I just work out with the Heavy Hammer II upside down, about 15-16" long handle). I doubt it will be 14, but maybe...

[gripuru]

Come on, let´s do this