For Next Year

[Mikael Siversson]

Am I the only one who feel it may be wrong to let Swedes vote on American representatives in the Grip Panel, or Brits vote on Germans etc.

I feel it is perhaps better next time to restrict the voting so that you can only vote for the canidates representing your own country.

For example, the Germans may want Mr X to represent them only to find themselves overrun by the far more numerous Americans, who then basically, through their voting are deciding on who will represent Germany.

Edited March 14, 2006 by Mikael Siversson

[dubthewonderscot]

Even though I am one of those americans who voted on the euro reps. I agree with Mikael on this one. It does improperly influence this based on the disagreement last week regarding guest lifters. Just my humble opinion.

W

[mobsterone]

Am I the only one who feel it may be wrong to let Swedes vote on American representatives in the Grip Panel, or Brits vote on Germans etc.

I feel it is perhaps better next time to restrict the voting so that you can only vote for the canidates representing your own country.

For example, the Germans may want Mr X to represent them only to find themselves overrun by the far more numerous Americans, who then basically, through their voting are deciding on who will represent Germany.

I think you are right. However, the key is to get more GB members from the country to vote, vote, vote. As per my posts elsewhere. The GB has some 4000 members and I'd hazard a guess some 10-15% are active. That equates to 400-600 and yet the total number of votes cast...

[David Horne]

We had to start somewhere, and I don't know how easy it is to get a vote going on here just for swedes, etc. Hell I had to be rescued by Heath as it was!

Anyway, as with everything else the panel will vote on it.

[Mikael Siversson]

We had to start somewhere...

Of course, which is why I was talking about next year. Anyway, something to think about.

[EricMilfeld]

Sounds like a great idea for next year.

[AP]

I think I'm going to go against the grain here, there are a couple issues with restricting voters.

First off is just practical matter of getting enough voters. Is resticting voters going to make the poccess more complicated? Are the Swedes going to have enough voters to have a meaningful result?

Secondly, the seats don't really need to represent the country itself. For example, the German seat isn't really going to decide grip contests in Germany, that will still be up to whoever promotes the contests. The German seat is going to help decide standards for the world.

Instead of thinking like, "I am an American and therefore need to vote for someone who has American interests at heart" I think we are all most interested in what's best for the sport. Having seats for different regions of the world helps to keep it from being too US centered, but I don't think we need to worry too much about each country having a specific representative. I mean, this year, Holland, Switzerland and Austrailia didn't require a poll to decide the rep. I think these seats could be combined and voted on, and that the decision of how many seats are needed could take into account how many people sign up to represent - this year is looks like you could easily have 5 US seats and 6 International seats and that would have made the voting more competitive.

I think its most important that we get the best people and not worry too much about where they come from, or where people are voting from.

[Mikael Siversson]

I think these seats could be combined and voted on, and that the decision of how many seats are needed could take into account how many people sign up to represent - this year is looks like you could easily have 5 US seats and 6 International seats and that would have made the voting more competitive.

Quite frankly, the standard of competitive grip in the USA is currently not good enough to warrant the US to have almost half of the people on a grip panel. I think countries should earn their second, third etc positions in a grip panel.

In the standardised vbar and pinch, both lists are dominated in the top by Europeans.

[climber511]

It's a brand new sport going thru all the brand new issues that come with it; I don't believe the strength of one's personal grip - or lack of it within reason - has much to do with what I would say are going to be as much political and administrative issues as personal strength issues. As for the number of representatives from each country - I would say it should reflect the number of possible (probable) number of people that country will lend to future competitions. In the US political system, the number of representatives reflect on the population of each area - as seems fair to me. Does the US have that many more grip community members; I don't know but it should be an easy question to answer from GripBoard stats. From previous topics - we need a metalurgist and a math major as much as we need World Record holders.

[David Horne]

All things will be discussed, but we have to at least start and get round the table.

[Mikael Siversson]

I don't believe the strength of one's personal grip - or lack of it within reason - has much to do with what I would say are going to be as much political and administrative issues as personal strength issues.

Well there is a reason why the US cannot totally dictate the terms in the strongman arena. People want to see the strongest men regardless of where they come from.

If the top 10 were all from the USA, the strongman sport would be run and dictated by Americans, simple as that. It is naive to believe that the level of competitivness is irrelevant to the influence a nation has in any given sport.

[AP]

Quite frankly, the standard of competitive grip in the USA is currently not good enough to warrant the US to have almost half of the people on a grip panel. I think countries should earn their second, third etc positions in a grip panel.

In the standardised vbar and pinch, both lists are dominated in the top by Europeans.

I don't have a problem with that, as it stands David's list i believe has 5 US and 8 International seats. For me its not about population or comparing which countries are better or more deserving, its about the representatives - who is most deserving to be a rep, who can make a bigger impact.

My point is that a specific country shouldn't get a seat (or not) it should be based on the person that's applying to be a rep. Locking in which countries get to have reps and how many makes it tough for new reps to get involved and makes the process less democratic and the voting less competitive. In a nutshell I think the seats should be flexible based on the pool of representatives and the voting should be simple and competitive.

[Dude]

Well there is a reason why the US cannot totally dictate the terms in the strongman arena. People want to see the strongest men regardless of where they come from.

If the top 10 were all from the USA, the strongman sport would be run and dictated by Americans, simple as that. It is naive to believe that the level of competitivness is irrelevant to the influence a nation has in any given sport.

I think representatives according to number of competitors is much more reasonable than by contest history and number of organized events. A quick glance at the member map [which I realize not all have set their pins] shows clearly that the proximity of grip members in europe, UK are grouped much more closely than us in the U.S.

Granted there may be more participation in overseas events than US but a large part of that is distance. Example by analogy would be me wanting to compete in a grip contest in California. I'd be roughly the same traveling distance as if I lived in eastern Kazakistan and drove to Germany, a trip that only a minute handful would make. How many in Europe or the UK have to make a travel commitment of that nature to compete?

Quite frankly, the standard of competitive grip in the USA is currently not good enough to warrant the US to have almost half of the people on a grip panel. I think countries should earn their second, third etc positions in a grip panel.

In the standardised vbar and pinch, both lists are dominated in the top by Europeans.

Looking at the lists of top two hand pinch and vbar are also somewhat irrelavant as those are "Euro" devices, not implements made freely available worldwide. I know I don't have $100s of dollars to spend on "specialized" equipment that is the same as I can make/buy for a quarter of the cost, and I imagine many can't either. So the few U.S. competitors that had a chance to be at a contest where one of these "specialized" implements were being used had a shot at a place on the list, once again a small percentage of the populace.

I had thought of the whole grip council thing as a collective group from around the globe working together and basically being an authoritive group for arbitrary purposes, nto so much different factions vying to promote self interests. The whole thing is still young so obviously there will be some flaws to work out but I think regardless it will be good for the sport.

[Mikael Siversson]

The Euro pinch and vbar were used in the top competition of the year in the USA.

I agree that the best people should do the job in the grip panel.

However, we have already had two Americans posting in this thread a suggestion to increase the percentage of American representatives in the panel. Not increasing the standard of the selected people but increase the relative number of people from a certain country.

The competitivness of the various countries cannot be ignored. It is as simple as that.

Take the United Nation as an example. The US has one vote as all other countries. However, if the US feels that things need to be done they will do it regardless of what the other countries feel about it. I can certainly understand and sympathise with that to some extent.

Any of the top countries in Europe for example (Sweden or England) could effectively marginalise the European Championship with a boycott. It is therefore vitally important that they have a major saying in decisionmakings. We all like to think that we are making decisions regardless of our nationality but quite often we are not.

So yes, the competitivness should matter. I also feel however, that we should try to include as many countries as possible. Hopefully there will soon be some GB sanctioned grip comps in Canada for example.

Edited March 15, 2006 by Mikael Siversson

[Bob Lipinski]

I think the way it has been done is very fair.

And, as David implies, we can vote to change that next time.